Shane Crawford on the importance of resting players

[StSteven]

Geelong have been in the last two GF's and know what they are in for. Obviously the coaching staff are preparing for Sept based on previous experience. To consider them "stupid" would be a big mistake.

No doubt RL and team are doing likewise, just different approaches. We will see soon who were the "clever boys".

[terry smith rules]

I have no doubt that RL is already resting players.

Check out last Sunday's stats

Nearly all our midfielders only played around 70-75% game time.

If he can keep that sort of heavy rotation up, by the time the finals come around blokes like Lenny will have only played 4 of the last 6 games.

It is much the sames as they nursed 35 though his last two years.

fqf

[kp83]

I have no doubt that RL is already resting players.

Check out last Sunday's stats

Nearly all our midfielders only played around 70-75% game time.

If he can keep that sort of heavy rotation up, by the time the finals come around blokes like Lenny will have only played 4 of the last 6 games.

It is much the sames as they nursed 35 though his last two years.

fqf

I agree. Did you also notice Rooey getting a few spells on the pine? This is pretty rare and, to me, a clear sign that our boys are being given a spell during games to keep them fresh (although I doubt he would have been rested if the game was close).

[saintsRrising]

Momentum once given up is not easily regained.




As to injuries and niggles...our new conditioning crew are very cautious and no playes have been rushed back when out.

ie look at how Gardi has been managed. if you call this resting then ok.

But if you are advocating fully fit able able players.....then bah humbug!!!

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

As I said on a previous post (which included this article of Crawford's), balance is the key. It's no good having 22 blokes who know each other backwards who are all exhausted/carrying injuries and it's also no good having 22 blokes who are fully fit and fresh who don't know each other from Adam.
It's a matter of finding the best balance between the two, which produces the best outcome. No-one said it's easy, though.

I listened to the commentators countless time explain how the saints were playing for each other, and every time the ball was contested they expected a player to be their to help, and 90% of the time he was.

16-0...you'd think we have struck the balance, however Gards and Ball were omitted this week...however you put it, both are part of our best 22.

Hey I'm all for having our best 22 for that week out there if they're in good enough shape, as I totally agree that the chemistry/understanding gained by having a bunch of the same guys playing regularly is invaluable. That goes without saying.
However, as it showed against West Coast, if many of those 22 are knackered (as many apparently were, according to Gerard Healy, who said he spoke to many of them on the plane-ride home), then your overall performance can suffer greatly (as it did that day.)
That's why I'm saying (as so many others who've been there before are) that if you have a few guys that are like that generally at the moment (or carrying niggles), it's well worth giving them a week off (although certainly not all at once, as Geelong supposedly did 2 weeks ago).
As you stated, we got by just fine with Ball and Gardi not being there on Sunday, so for those who seem petrified that we'll lose all momentum just because one or two blokes aren't there some weeks, it's not going to happen (unless we let it).
As I and someone else also said, we're already "resting" blokes, by giving them less game time, so it's unlikely many will need a whole match off, but if any do, it could be very well worth it. I certainly don't advocate resting blokes that are in tip top shape. That could be asking for trouble.

[saint66au]

I have no doubt that RL is already resting players.

Check out last Sunday's stats

Nearly all our midfielders only played around 70-75% game time.

If he can keep that sort of heavy rotation up, by the time the finals come around blokes like Lenny will have only played 4 of the last 6 games.

It is much the sames as they nursed 35 though his last two years.

fqf

I agree. Did you also notice Rooey getting a few spells on the pine? This is pretty rare and, to me, a clear sign that our boys are being given a spell during games to keep them fresh (although I doubt he would have been rested if the game was close).

Yep...very rare..and to me a far better option than a week off for "general soreness".

We also finished with 5 on the pine last Sunday. Dont know if Ive ever seen that before.

[degruch]

I have no doubt that RL is already resting players.

Check out last Sunday's stats

Nearly all our midfielders only played around 70-75% game time.

If he can keep that sort of heavy rotation up, by the time the finals come around blokes like Lenny will have only played 4 of the last 6 games.

It is much the sames as they nursed 35 though his last two years.

fqf

He didn't sit down much whilst he was off!

Anyway, this IMO, is by far and away the best approach...players can be used sparingly on the ground, whilst maintaining team coehesion.
I agree. Did you also notice Rooey getting a few spells on the pine? This is pretty rare and, to me, a clear sign that our boys are being given a spell during games to keep them fresh (although I doubt he would have been rested if the game was close).

Yep...very rare..and to me a far better option than a week off for "general soreness".

We also finished with 5 on the pine last Sunday. Dont know if Ive ever seen that before.

[Beej]

ie look at how Gardi has been managed. if you call this resting then ok.

But if you are advocating fully fit able able players.....then bah humbug!!!

If it's not resting, then what is it?

Managing/resting... same sh1t.

[kaos theory]

The hawks didn't win the flag because they rested players, the cats lost it with their shocking kicking at goal up till half time.

What about the crows in 97 & 98, they come through the hard way, with not much rest to players and won 2 flags.

Sometimes, certain things/activities become fashionable, and everyboby starts interpreting their experiences and solutions through that current trend.

This month's new fashion statement is 'resting'.....

[saintly]

I have no doubt that RL is already resting players.

Check out last Sunday's stats

Nearly all our midfielders only played around 70-75% game time.

If he can keep that sort of heavy rotation up, by the time the finals come around blokes like Lenny will have only played 4 of the last 6 games.

It is much the sames as they nursed 35 though his last two years.

fqf

i would suggest that most clubs midfield would have similar amount of game time.

However what ahppened in the last 10 minutes of the of the game that was sort've resting. during game time. (playing kick to kick )

[saintsRrising]

Mids never play 100% TOG...FB might...everyone else is normally spelled.


Roo spending TOO on the bench is not new.

Players have also been coached to go off when they know their lactic acid is high....not how Roo went off straight after he did that long chase down the wing.

[saintsRrising]

The hawks didn't win the flag because they rested players, the cats lost it with their shocking kicking at goal up till half time.:

That plus great tactics by the Hawks. The rushing the ball flumoxed the Cats and allowed the Hawks to set up.

What about the crows in 97 & 98, they come through the hard way, with not much rest to players and won 2 flags.:

Eaxcatly. The Crows taper where they load up late seaon to build fitness...and then havea light program in the finals.

Sometimes, certain things/activities become fashionable, and everyboby starts interpreting their experiences and solutions through that current trend.

This month's new fashion statement is 'resting'.....

Resting is a waste of time.

If a player needs to not play to get over some minor injury then fair enough...that is recovery.

You can see how the Saints are managing some of our players such as Gardi and Max cautiously.

But to have 100% fit professional athletes in the stand is a waste of time....with respect to them in some way being better in the finals. It might assist them next week...but for the finals it would be of no benefit.


Might as well send them to a movie. "The Day After Tomorrow" anyone?

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

But to have 100% fit professional athletes in the stand is a waste of time....

Who is suggesting having "100% fit professional athletes" in the stand?

[degruch]

But to have 100% fit professional athletes in the stand is a waste of time....

Who is suggesting having "100% fit professional athletes" in the stand?

That's exactly what 'resting' implies...otherwise it's injury management or injury recovery.

[terry smith rules]

I have no doubt that RL is already resting players.

Check out last Sunday's stats

Nearly all our midfielders only played around 70-75% game time.

If he can keep that sort of heavy rotation up, by the time the finals come around blokes like Lenny will have only played 4 of the last 6 games.

It is much the sames as they nursed 35 though his last two years.

fqf

i would suggest that most clubs midfield would have similar amount of game time.

However what ahppened in the last 10 minutes of the of the game that was sort've resting. during game time. (playing kick to kick )

I am not all over the stats but I would think the normal TOG would be around 80-85% for the mids

If you can get that to 70-75% then that is an extra say 10minutes a game

Does not sound much, but anyone who has done endurance work would know that that is substantial

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

But to have 100% fit professional athletes in the stand is a waste of time....

Who is suggesting having "100% fit professional athletes" in the stand?

That's exactly what 'resting' implies...otherwise it's injury management or injury recovery.

According to you. Many speak of it as "resting" and they mean the exact same thing and others KNOW that that's what they mean. (Those that don't take things too literally and don't get their nickers all in a knot). Same horse, different jockey. TomAto, tomato
Surely you don't believe that those who said Geelong "rested" many of their guys, thought that none of the 7 or 8 had a niggle/injury of some kind? And fatigue is just as legitimate a reason to miss as injury, as it too can get much worse.
What many of us mean by "resting" and what I read Crawford to mean is to give guys a break who could do with it, who would otherwise keep playing, if the games were more important. That's what I mean and it's what many, many others in the "football community" mean, in that context.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I have no doubt that RL is already resting players.

Check out last Sunday's stats

Nearly all our midfielders only played around 70-75% game time.

If he can keep that sort of heavy rotation up, by the time the finals come around blokes like Lenny will have only played 4 of the last 6 games.

It is much the sames as they nursed 35 though his last two years.

fqf

i would suggest that most clubs midfield would have similar amount of game time.

However what ahppened in the last 10 minutes of the of the game that was sort've resting. during game time. (playing kick to kick )

I am not all over the stats but I would think the normal TOG would be around 80-85% for the mids

If you can get that to 70-75% then that is an extra say 10minutes a game

Does not sound much, but anyone who has done endurance work would know that that is substantial

Indeed it is.

[degruch]

But to have 100% fit professional athletes in the stand is a waste of time....

Who is suggesting having "100% fit professional athletes" in the stand?

That's exactly what 'resting' implies...otherwise it's injury management or injury recovery.

According to you.

Well...no...100% fit in this context generally means 'uninjured', otherwise, there must be some measure of fitness by which players are rated. You can be 100% fit and fatigued, but you can't be 100% fit and have a buggered knee.

But, I know what you're getting at...complications arise from exhaustion that must be managed, but can also be managed during the game without pulling a player out totally. I think the negatives for pulling players out of the team far outweigh the positives.

FWIW, I think Crawf has tailored his report to cater for a pro-resting arguement, as stated earlier, Geelong have denied resting anyone, and I can't remember the Hawks resting players last year either. I can remember both sides not playing injured players, at least prior to the finals.

Signing out, Good Cop degruch.

[SainterK]

Oh enough of this resting argument, my head hurts....

Here's a thought, Geelongs players may not be playing because they are actually injured!

[bozza1980]

I think the whole resting argument is ignoring the obvious cautiousness with which we approach our injury management.

The example that springs to mind is Kossie earlier in the year as soon as his hamstring feel odd, he was off the ground iced and preparing for the next week, which he missed.

You don't have to leave out 7 of your best 22 and lose a game to show you preparing your players to be cherry ripe in September.

The other thing lost is the fact that Johnson still is yet to resurface and maybe, just maybe the Geelong players did not pull up so well after one of the more physical games of the last few years?? Not to mention the fact that Geelong deny the fact that they were rested.

i guess at the end of the day it might be semantics, however I think it's insulting to suggest that we are taking any uneccessary risks with our players when all exposed evidence suggests that we aren't.

[CaptainRiewoldt]

Stkilda are in their prime 23-26 they dont need no rest. Rooey could do a marathon before a game and still be wanting to run he is a machine.

Only if they have injuries slight or otherwise should they be rested. We are resting players if they need it like gardiner, ball etc. so relax.

We have the best fitness staff going around, the best assistants and best coach. The mindset of these players cant be messed with. They are on auto win pilot to take that off would be drastic!

[Beej]

To say that we don't need rest is a little naive.

Any side getting rest into their players has a distinct advantage.

Momentum is very important, but at what cost?

We need to find that balance of form and fitness.

In today's game where preparation is absolutely vital, I like the idea of having 22 fresh and in-form players come September.

I trust the club know exactly what they're doing mind and if there are little niggles within the side, they will be able to effectively prioritise heading into the finals.

It's all about September which is a season in itself. Nothing else matters.

[joffaboy]

To say that we don't need rest is a little naive.

Possibly - but the Saints switched off over in WA and on Sunday after about 7 minutes of the fourth quarter.

It's all about September. Nothing else matters.

thats right. % means nothing to us.

The team has only really played 6 out of the last 8 quarters which is 75%

As a team they have only put in for 75% of the total time in two matches.

If you are only getting 75% game time and the whole team only puts in 75% - in reality you are only playing 56.25% of the game.

So in reality our whole midfield has played just over one of the past two games and was rested for the balance.

[evertonfc]

Nice to see us giving Zac and Kosi a week off this week

Got no doubt they'll both be fresher and fitter for the last few months of the season as a result.

I think the continuity thing, whilst important, is not such a big issue right now because the players look so well adjusted to the squad, not just the first 22.

It's also crucial that we have a few 'reserve' players absolutely ready to go in case of injury or suspension.

I'd like to see one ruckman, one key defender, one key forward, one running defender and two midfielders ready to go in reserve.

Ruckman - McEvoy (Whilst clearly not ready for finals football, the amount of games he has played will hold him in excellent stead if we need him as an emergency player. Unlikely to be needed, but King and Gardiner are never a 'lock' to play matches).
KPP Defender - Maguire (A fantastic player to have in reserve, but you'd really prefer that he had at least two matches in before finals. Could Zac's suspension provide this?)
KPP Forward - Gwilt/Lynch (Gwilt would be more likely to get the nod having played some reasonable footy this year already. Could fill in for Riewoldt once before finals if Roo is allowed a break. However, he's unlikely to be needed.)
Running defender - Begley (Showed in pre-season that he was almost on par with Farren Ray at that time and looked to be on the fringes of the first team. Could do with a run, but would back him to play a final at 24 hours notice. Probably not required, either.)
Midfielders - Geary & Armitage (Geary has obviously played quite a bit and whilst his form has been patchy, he has shown something. It'd be great for Armitage to get a game before the end of the season but it's hard to see it happening. Geary won't need another run but I wouldn't mind swapping Hayes or Montagna for Armitage. Would allow them to keep giving 100% in September and also rust-proof Armo.)

I'm pretty keen to avoid a Brett Cook-situation. Which could quickly develop into a Robert Neill-situation. We need fresh, strong back-ups who are ready to go. It cost us in 1997 - and it cost the Cats last year.

We're well stocked in reserve, but could do with two or so matches into Maguire and Armitage IMO.

I must say that the way we eased off in the last quarter against Adelaide was an excellent idea. Pushing fatigued players makes it tougher for them to back up. I liked it. I'd happily see that happen for the rest of the year but I fear we might need to put in more four-quarter efforts against teams like the Dogs and Hawks.

[stinger]

Nice to see us giving Zac and Kosi a week off this week

Got no doubt they'll both be fresher and fitter for the last few months of the season as a result.

I think the continuity thing, whilst important, is not such a big issue right now because the players look so well adjusted to the squad, not just the first 22.

It's also crucial that we have a few 'reserve' players absolutely ready to go in case of injury or suspension.

I'd like to see one ruckman, one key defender, one key forward, one running defender and two midfielders ready to go in reserve.

Ruckman - McEvoy (Whilst clearly not ready for finals football, the amount of games he has played will hold him in excellent stead if we need him as an emergency player. Unlikely to be needed, but we King and Gardiner are never a 'lock' to play matches).
KPP Defender - Maguire (A fantastic player to have in reserve, but you'd really prefer that he had at least two matches in before finals. Could Zac's omission provide this?)
KPP Forward - Gwilt/Lynch (Gwilt would be more likely to get the nod having played some reasonable footy this year already. Could fill in for Riewoldt once before finals if Roo is allowed a break. However, he's unlikely to be needed.)
Running defender - Begley (Showed in pre-season that he was almost on par with Farren Ray at that time and looked to be on the fringes of the first team. Could do with a run, but would back him to play a final at 24 hours notice. Probably not required, either.)
Midfielders - Geary & Armitage (Geary has obviously played quite a bit and whilst his form has been patchy, he has shown something. It'd be great for Armitage to get a game before the end of the season but it's hard to see it happening. Geary won't need another run but I wouldn't mind swapping Hayes or Montagna for Armitage.)

I'm pretty keen to avoid a Brett Cook-situation. Which could quickly develop into a Robert Neill-situation. We need fresh, strong back-ups who are ready to go. It cost us in 1997 - and it cost the Cats last year.

ross has actually spoken about putting in a young 'un for a final........mentions brereton a bit in that regard........