The Fox Report - Round 15

[rodgerfox]

I think we saw the best of the Saints yesterday, and the worst.

But this is the thing with this side. When we were at our worst, at Subiaco, after last week's physically and mentally draining match, on a warmish day, with Schneider King and Hudghton out of the side - we still only ever got to a goal behind. And that didn't last long.

Granted, West Coast are ordinary but we never really lost control. Very proud to say that about a Saints team. And one thing we know for sure, is that these guys don't stop trying.


The Positives....

The first 15 minutes of the last quarter.

Our fitness, and the durability of our guys. Seeing Geelong with 13 outs after we beat them up just brought the biggest smile to my face. Seeing us with no outs, stretched the smile a little further. We appear to be in pretty good hands in the fitness department these days. (note: I knocked firmly on wood as I was typing this)

Raph Clarke's game on the only matchwinner they had - Mark LeCras. They were getting some reasonable ball into their 50 too. Very proud of Raph.


The Negatives....

Our skills are just deplorable. Jones, Eddy, Dempster, Gram, Luke Ball and at times Clarke, are just horrible by foot. Jones just as bad by hand on Sunday!

The commentary on Fox. Apart from the fact it felt like sitting behind 3 elderly West Coast fans at the footy, they were also horribly over-cliched and just deadset wrong in their commentating on the game. As is the norm with the footy media these days, the commentators almost seem to write a script before the game. Then simply commentate to that script - regardless of whether or not it is infact happening! They kept talking about how flat we were after last week, how we were underestimating the Eagles etc. etc. But really, there were only two things missing from the 'usual' Saints team of 2009 - our skills were worse than ever, and Sam Gilbert and Sam Fisher had been stifled in defence.
So we appeared flat through the middle. I thought we tried our guts out. But the lack of run from the Sams from half back really hurt us. Meant our mids had to get back deeper, which in turn meant when we did go forward we were weren't quite penetrating as deep and dangerously as we usually do. Kosi suffers when our mids don't get the ball in that extra 10-15 metres deeper. The bigger ground didn't help this either.

This is a worry for us. These two will get tags now. And unless Jason Gram gets a leg transplant from Stuart Dew and a heart transplant from Brett Kirk, we don't have anyone else back there of their standard.

Gerard Healy made a comment during the game along the lines of "everyone just thinks the Saints are going to 'switch on' at some point and blow the Eagles away by about 6 goals. But there is just no evidence to suggest that it will happen."
At the time, I thought 'you're wrong Gerard'. The 2 goals we kicked in a row in the 3rd quarter after the Eagles hit the front were great evidence, that all we had to do was start hitting targets and we still had all the other boxes ticked.
It was pretty funny when we came out in the last quarter and 'switched on' and blew the Eagles away by about 6 goals.
He's the worst getting around I reckon Gerard Healy. There are others that are average, but at least they take the piiss a bit. Healy acts the scholar but has less clue than Dipper did on a good day.

So much fuss being made about Geelong and us 'coming down' after such a big game last week. Isn't the Grand Final played the week after a prelim final? I would have thought Prelims are pretty big games. Why don't teams 'come down' after them?

What does Lyon see in Dempster? He was horrible last year, and to me, really indicative of that unskilled plodder mentally that dogged us in 07 and 08. He seemed to become a far better player whilst sitting on the sidelines. But after watching him yesterday, nope. Same player as he was.

Add to that, what does Lyon see in Eddy?

There are clearly some things that the coaches want. And guys like Dempster and Eddy must possess them. But it's not skill, and it's not decision making. But anyway, we're 15-0 so who am I to argue?

And I have to mention the umpiring. Not bias either way, just woeful. I'm all for 'letting it go', but this refers to letting go 'iffy' decisions. Not deadset 'game altering' infringements. We got away with quite a few. And Lynch got away with about 30 blatant pushes in the ruck against young McEvoy.
Weird umpiring really.
And whilst we're on umpiring, does the fact that players can throw the ball when they've been tackled, annoy anyone else? Or is it just me. It seems that these days (ie. the past fortnight) that an incorrect disposal is now acutally a correct disposal.




All in all, I was actually pretty happy with yesterday. Historically, it was 'a game we would have dropped'. And throughout the game, we had every excuse to put the cue in the rack, accept the loss because 'we were coming down' and go home and watch a DVD of the Geelong game.
But we didn't. We dug deep and beat them pretty easily in the end. We kicked 90 points without much from Roo and Kosi on the scoreboard.

[matrix]

Add to that, what does Lyon see in Eddy?

two goals and five tackles in the third game for the year....i can see Ross thinks he is an option and part of the future

[rodgerfox]

Add to that, what does Lyon see in Eddy?

i can see Ross thinks he is an option and part of the future

We can all see that.

What I don't see, is why.

[marksnsparks]

Have to agree with comments about Gram, smallest ticker in the team.

I think you're a bit harsh on Eddy and Dempster. First games back for a while. Pre-season I thought Eddy was better that Geary, and Dempster was showing some excellent form prior to being cruelled by injury.

Geez, if we give Raph this much time to get right, we should definitely give the same to those two.

[matrix]

well how long ya think milne and schneider will be around for?
what about hayes?
obviously a forward/middle rotation for the future IMO

[Thinline]

And I have to mention the umpiring. Not bias either way, just woeful. I'm all for 'letting it go', but this refers to letting go 'iffy' decisions. Not deadset 'game altering' infringements. We got away with quite a few. And Lynch got away with about 30 blatant pushes in the ruck against young McEvoy.
Weird umpiring really.
And whilst we're on umpiring, does the fact that players can throw the ball when they've been tackled, annoy anyone else? Or is it just me. It seems that these days (ie. the past fortnight) that an incorrect disposal is now acutally a correct disposal.

I'd be intrigued to see the count because I'm convinced visiting teams get ar-e rooted by the umps at Subie on a regular basis. For mine there were at lest a dozen hands over Saints shoulders that did't get paid and I agree McEvoy was getting buffeted around from behind and was a bit stiff not to snag a few frees.

Still in end didn't matter. Saints found a way.

[BringBackMadDog]

Another good read Rodger. A few points.....
Totally agree about Eddy, good trier, hard at it, good stamina, terrible kick cannot be trusted by foot.

Good to see someone acknowledging the fact that Raph was given the hardest assignment in the back half and kept Le Cras pretty quiet. I thought he at least broke even if not beat Le Cras.

[terry smith rules]

[quote="rodgerfox"]And I have to mention And whilst we're on umpiring, does the fact that players can throw the ball when they've been tackled, annoy anyone else? Or is it just me. It seems that these days (ie. the past fortnight) that an incorrect disposal is now acutally a correct disposal.


[ [quote]

coming from the old school I hate this as well.

get tackled and release the ball, much like in rugby union. should be incorrect disposal every time, especially if the player takes on the tackler.

there was one yesterday when the west coast player took a mark then fell to the ground , went to handball and it just sort of , well no sort of, he threw it pure and simple

I guess it all part of the grand scheme of speeding up the game, however all it does is take away one of the skills required.

[markp]

I knocked firmly on wood as I was typing this

You're getting genuinely excited now aren't you?

What I love most is that the cats raised the white flag this week and we hardly broke our stride.

[Beej]

You can't really say, "Historically, it was 'a game we would have dropped'" although I know exactly what you mean.

Historically we have never been 15-0.

This side cannot be compared to any other at the moment. Nobody has seen anything like this from a St Kilda side ever.

They're creating their own history.

[saintlee]

Good read as usual rodgerfox, but totally disagree on Dempster, I thought he was great last year, and I wasn't expecting much from him initially....he was pretty rusty yesterday, but was his first game back from a knee reco, so I think you're being harsh....

[Thinline]

They're creating their own history.

Here you go, OLB. A rarity.

Someone - ie I - agrees with you!

[evertonfc]

Another thought-provoker, as always.

But I disagreed on Clarke, Eddy and Dempster...just my two cents.

[Country Kid]

Our skills are just deplorable. Jones, Eddy, Dempster, Gram, Luke Ball and at times Clarke, are just horrible by foot. Jones just as bad by hand on Sunday!

I think you could name 90% of the side for their lack of skills at times yesterday. Kicking to 1 on 2 situations, look away hand balls even by the better skilled players.

What does Lyon see in Dempster? He was horrible last year, and to me, really indicative of that unskilled plodder mentally that dogged us in 07 and 08. He seemed to become a far better player whilst sitting on the sidelines. But after watching him yesterday, nope. Same player as he was.

I guess the coaches must see something there. After all if memory serves me correctly he came 11th in last years B&F and missed 7 games. It was only his 5th game in 10 months playing mainly an unfamiliar position of HFF. From what I could see he only had two standout clanger kicks in the first qtr. With some game time his coolness under pressure & long kicking will be of benefit to the team.

There are clearly some things that the coaches want. And guys like Dempster and Eddy must possess them. But it's not skill, and it's not decision making. But anyway, we're 15-0 so who am I to argue?

What coaches want are players that follow team rules & structure. Not all players are blessed with unlimited talent. Each side has their 'workhorses', players that do their bit, mostly unnoticed that fit into the team dynamics. Both these players fit into this category.

[reincarnated]

Another thought-provoker, as always.

But I disagreed on Clarke, Eddy and Dempster...just my two cents.

Reincarnated disagrees on Eddy and Dempster

Eddy will never get to do much whilst our midfield and forwards are up and going and Reincarnated believes it of paramount importance that when he does get the pill he does something positive with it as he did with his 2 goals. When he got it something good happened and thats all we can ask

Dempster came back from a knee reco and looked rusty, he is grossly under-rated on this forum of know it alls and will prove why

Clarke needs time to get in to the game, whilst he had 22 touches most were Zac Dawson like in the back 50 uncontested when switching play or chipping it around. A 40 year old can kick 30 meters to space and watch another person run on to the football for a mark. Not difficult

Kepp up the good word Rodger and Reincarnated hopes that you will take Reincarnated's opinions and add them to your program. Would be appreciated young man

[joffaboy]

Joffaboy agrees with reincarnated and believes that reincarnated is right on the money.

[reincarnated]

Joffaboy agrees with reincarnated and believes that reincarnated is right on the money.

Reincarnated does not appreciated Joffaboy's response after the welcome he gave Reincarnated and other posters

[meher baba]

Re Raph: he didn't have as good a game as you have suggested, RF. But he certainly wasn't as terrible as others have posted.

Re Eddy: I agree with you. Hard working, extremely fit, strong tackler with little else in the way of AFL standard skills. I would suggest to those who think he is better than this to try imagining him getting selected in the Geelong or Western Bulldogs or Collingwood teams. How many would each of these clubs need to have out injured before Eddy would get a run?

Re Dempster: he's a helluva lot better than Eddy IMO. In form, he is a reliable marker and disposer of the ball, and has a long kick. But he isn't as wonderful as some on here think. If he's so wonderful, how come the Swans were prepared to get rid of him as a job lot with Schneider for a second round draft pick?

If we were going to swap, say, X Clarke (IMO a player on a par with Schneider) for a second round draft pick, who would we want to throw in to sweeten the deal? I would say nobody: X for a second round draft pick would be about right. So on that basis, the Swans considered Dempster to have zero value. Possibly a bit harsh, but - as in the wider economy - you have to pay attention to what the market is saying.

[tezza1]

What tripe ?

Eddy wouldnt get a game with Collingwood ?

Now there is a team with plodders on every line ?

Im sure Michael Milkshake could use an Eddy .

He might not be a matchwinner but he will always give you 100% which is more than some of them collingwood hacks give ?

[Saintschampions08]

Re Raph: he didn't have as good a game as you have suggested, RF. But he certainly wasn't as terrible as others have posted.

Re Eddy: I agree with you. Hard working, extremely fit, strong tackler with little else in the way of AFL standard skills. I would suggest to those who think he is better than this to try imagining him getting selected in the Geelong or Western Bulldogs or Collingwood teams. How many would each of these clubs need to have out injured before Eddy would get a run?

Re Dempster: he's a helluva lot better than Eddy IMO. In form, he is a reliable marker and disposer of the ball, and has a long kick. But he isn't as wonderful as some on here think. If he's so wonderful, how come the Swans were prepared to get rid of him as a job lot with Schneider for a second round draft pick?

If we were going to swap, say, X Clarke (IMO a player on a par with Schneider) for a second round draft pick, who would we want to throw in to sweeten the deal? I would say nobody: X for a second round draft pick would be about right. So on that basis, the Swans considered Dempster to have zero value. Possibly a bit harsh, but - as in the wider economy - you have to pay attention to what the market is saying.

That's right...where exactly are Geelong, Collingwood and the Bulldogs?

Maybe if they picked the 'eddy' types...they'd be better then they are, don't remember any of them beating us this year.

I seem to remember CJ being in the same boat Eddy is (on this forum)...would you drop him now?

[joffaboy]

Joffaboy agrees with reincarnated and believes that reincarnated is right on the money.

Reincarnated does not appreciated Joffaboy's response after the welcome he gave Reincarnated and other posters

Joffaboy apologies profusely to reincarnated and trusts that Joffaboy didn't rattle his cage too much due to reincarnated rather warped view of football.

[reincarnated]

Joffaboy agrees with reincarnated and believes that reincarnated is right on the money.

Reincarnated does not appreciated Joffaboy's response after the welcome he gave Reincarnated and other posters

Joffaboy apologies profusely to reincarnated and trusts that Joffaboy didn't rattle his cage too much due to reincarnated rather warped view of football.

Reincarnated asks Joffaboy to desist from posting the way Reincarnated does

It is not funny

Do not be a copycat

[joffaboy]

Joffaboy agrees with reincarnated and believes that reincarnated is right on the money.

Reincarnated does not appreciated Joffaboy's response after the welcome he gave Reincarnated and other posters

Joffaboy apologies profusely to reincarnated and trusts that Joffaboy didn't rattle his cage too much due to reincarnated rather warped view of football.

Reincarnated asks Joffaboy to desist from posting the way Reincarnated does

It is not funny

Do not be a copycat

Joffaboy politely refuses to comply with reincarnated's demand and asks if reincarnated the only poster on Saintsational who has a god given right to post in third person.

Joffaboy thinks it is extremely funny and considering it annoys reincarnated will continue to post this way.

Joffaboy enjoys being a copycat as it rattles reincarnated's cage

[bigcarl]

Joffaboy thinks it is extremely funny and considering it annoys reincarnated will continue to post this way.

[mick13]

Joffaboy agrees with reincarnated and believes that reincarnated is right on the money.

Reincarnated does not appreciated Joffaboy's response after the welcome he gave Reincarnated and other posters

Joffaboy apologies profusely to reincarnated and trusts that Joffaboy didn't rattle his cage too much due to reincarnated rather warped view of football.

Reincarnated asks Joffaboy to desist from posting the way Reincarnated does

It is not funny

Do not be a copycat

Joffaboy politely refuses to comply with reincarnated's demand and asks if reincarnated the only poster on Saintsational who has a god given right to post in third person.

Joffaboy thinks it is extremely funny and considering it annoys reincarnated will continue to post this way.

Joffaboy enjoys being a copycat as it rattles reincarnated's cage

A2R giggles and starts a quote train.