Some Saints supporters make me sick

[plugger66]

I thought the point of the OP was not that Raph played a good/bad game, but that even if he was poor, Saints supporters shouldn't be ringing up talkback radio and bagging him out.

If I'm correct in my understanding of the OP then it would seem that OLB has either missed this point entirely, or completely ignored it, just to cnocentrate on bagging Raph.

I haven't seen anybody post that you shouldn't be able to criticise players on this forum, only that it was bad form to ring up a radio station and publicly bag them.

That is exactly the point. It has gone over a couple of people's heads.

[Iceman234]

I thought the point of the OP was not that Raph played a good/bad game, but that even if he was poor, Saints supporters shouldn't be ringing up talkback radio and bagging him out.

.....


I haven't seen anybody post that you shouldn't be able to criticise players on this forum, only that it was bad form to ring up a radio station and publicly bag them.

I agree with this and the OP.

[SainterK]

The banner on this site says "proudly" sponsoring five "rising" saints in 2009....of which one is Raph.

Not alot of pride, and doesn't rising mean developing and growing?

[degruch]

I thought the point of the OP was not that Raph played a good/bad game, but that even if he was poor, Saints supporters shouldn't be ringing up talkback radio and bagging him out.

If I'm correct in my understanding of the OP then it would seem that OLB has either missed this point entirely, or completely ignored it, just to cnocentrate on bagging Raph.

I haven't seen anybody post that you shouldn't be able to criticise players on this forum, only that it was bad form to ring up a radio station and publicly bag them.

That is exactly the point. It has gone over a couple of people's heads.

Gawd...it took long enough to get back there!

So...who hate's Jason Blake then?

[Young Georgie]

Despite all of this argy-bargy, the point is so-called Saints supporters made the effort to ring a radio station and bag one of our players in public. St Kilda has copped enough this week from moronic media commentators and journos who refuse to give this team the credit they deserve for an outstanding victory that will live on in the memories of all football supporters as one of the greatest H&A games in recent history.
Quartermain, Walls, Hutchinson, Sheehan, Gleeson (Age) etc keep banging on about THAT advantage call and the Johnson OUT as being the reason the mighty Cats lost.
Bullsh*t! It was a great St Kilda team effort that included Raph Clarke. He was pretty ordinary IMO - did some good things, did some not good things - but he wasn't alone and we know he can improve, no better stage to improve and now he's got some weeks to fine tune.
Giving the media and opposition more ammunition to have a go at our club is plain stupid and selfish. But most people IMO who ring sport talkback are exactly that.
Fortius quo fidelius!

[Beej]

olb has every **** right to his opinion

also reckon he's like a deer in the headlights

that lay /fall down , 'push' the ball attempt was sad

on the whole , i was dissapointed in raph as well

the show pony 'pushed' at the ball as well ....what the **** was that about ..?

It was plainly obvious for all to see.

I'm absolute baffled that anyone can think that those weren't mistakes.

Just because he's wearing the red, white and black doesn't mean he's beyond reproach.

Typical St Kilda supporter hero-worshipping, not looking at the bigger picture, willing to accept mediocrity, happy with their lot in life, not looking for any thing more, just thankful they get to go along to the footy on Saturday arvo to see the Saints have a dip.

And we think the culture has been changed. It still exists in the majority who have posted in this thread.

Please explain one thing then. If supporters are the cause of StKildas poor past. Could you tell me how you bagging Raph is helping the club become better? Do you think the coaching staff will log in here and go "Oh golly OLB says Raph had a bad game...we had better have a look at that"

Please explain how bagging players will make us more of a premiership chance?

Supporters aren't the cause, it is that same mentality which lives in some supporters that is the cause.

The defeatist attitude.

The willingness to accept being second best.

People who look at an obvious mistake and think, "ahh we'll let that slide, everyone makes mistakes, give him another contract, he tries hard the boy"

[Beej]

I thought the point of the OP was not that Raph played a good/bad game, but that even if he was poor, Saints supporters shouldn't be ringing up talkback radio and bagging him out.

If I'm correct in my understanding of the OP then it would seem that OLB has either missed this point entirely, or completely ignored it, just to cnocentrate on bagging Raph.

I haven't seen anybody post that you shouldn't be able to criticise players on this forum, only that it was bad form to ring up a radio station and publicly bag them.

That is exactly the point. It has gone over a couple of people's heads.

Surely that happens amongst all 16 clubs.

Part and parcel of footy.

What upsets you about that? Does it make you feel ashamed of our supporters or do you fear that the footballer in question may be listening?

[joffaboy]

Please explain one thing then. If supporters are the cause of StKildas poor past. Could you tell me how you bagging Raph is helping the club become better? Do you think the coaching staff will log in here and go "Oh golly OLB says Raph had a bad game...we had better have a look at that"

Please explain how bagging players will make us more of a premiership chance?

bob_71 do you really expect a rational answer to this question after the worn and tired out cliches OLB has resorted to?

Cant you understand that his argument has been stripped bare and has been exposed as fatuous garbage and not based at all in reality or fact?

Once a poster resorts to the old "accepting mediocrity" BS, you know they have morally bankrupted their argument.

The facts are that lazy hatefilled bursts of insults (not rational critisism but general subjective abuse) such as we have experienced from OLB does nothing but harm the player in question.

The guy is what? 21? He has been told to keep away from this forum by his relatives because of the hatefilled diatribes and vitriolic insults and abuse from faceless armchair critics directed toward him.

If you remember most of this hate toward raph was last year when he was watching his dad die, and he was diagnosed with epilepsy. But apparently OLB thinks that he is NOT accepting mediocrity by bullying and abusing Raph Clarke anonomously, on an internet forum.

Yep i can see how this would really benefit Raph Clarke and the club

[stinger]

I thought the point of the OP was not that Raph played a good/bad game, but that even if he was poor, Saints supporters shouldn't be ringing up talkback radio and bagging him out.

If I'm correct in my understanding of the OP then it would seem that OLB has either missed this point entirely, or completely ignored it, just to cnocentrate on bagging Raph.

I haven't seen anybody post that you shouldn't be able to criticise players on this forum, only that it was bad form to ring up a radio station and publicly bag them.

yep.......

[stinger]

Despite all of this argy-bargy, the point is so-called Saints supporters made the effort to ring a radio station and bag one of our players in public. St Kilda has copped enough this week from moronic media commentators and journos who refuse to give this team the credit they deserve for an outstanding victory that will live on in the memories of all football supporters as one of the greatest H&A games in recent history.
Quartermain, Walls, Hutchinson, Sheehan, Gleeson (Age) etc keep banging on about THAT advantage call and the Johnson OUT as being the reason the mighty Cats lost.
Bullsh*t! It was a great St Kilda team effort that included Raph Clarke. He was pretty ordinary IMO - did some good things, did some not good things - but he wasn't alone and we know he can improve, no better stage to improve and now he's got some weeks to fine tune.
Giving the media and opposition more ammunition to have a go at our club is plain stupid and selfish. But most people IMO who ring sport talkback are exactly that.
Fortius quo fidelius!

never listen to talk back radio stations....never will....never rang one...never will.......agree with your opinion....poor form......

[GrumpyOne]

Settle Petals......

IMHFO I thought Raph played well enough to get a chance of being picked next week, but not well enough to be a certainty. I still believe he is being played out of position at halfback.

Could not find any racial accusations in this thread.

People who ring up radio stations to bag players in their own team are scum of the lowest order. From my point of view, if they wear the red, white and black, I will support them.

My two bobs worth.

[SainterK]

I find the overall intentions on this thread of protecting Raph as a person, truly admirable....

[joffaboy]

Supporters aren't the cause, it is that same mentality which lives in some supporters that is the cause.

The defeatist attitude.

The willingness to accept being second best.

People who look at an obvious mistake and think, "ahh we'll let that slide, everyone makes mistakes, give him another contract, he tries hard the boy"

This is really some type of joke isn't it?

You must be taking the piss???

You think that celebrating one of the greatest wins in H&A history and being 14-0 and therefore congratulating the players instead of being so petty to isolate one error from one player and then go on to insult and abuse that player is accepting mediocrity.

FFS cant you think up a better cliche than that tire old chestnut?

Wow you must be such a hard man. Why dont you go down to the players and abuse them to their faces the way you do from the safety of the internet?

Go tell them that you dont accept mediocrity. Do tell Raph that he is like a deer in the headlights - but make sure his mates are around to hear it - see what they think.

You are a really a funny little person. All your self esteem and self worth must be wrapped up in the fortunes of the football club to believe that you spewing bile and insults towards a player will improve anything at the club.

really quite pathetically sad.

[degruch]

[quote="joffaboy"]The guy is what? 21? He has been told to keep away from this forum by his relatives because of the hatefilled diatribes and vitriolic insults and abuse from faceless armchair critics directed toward him.[quote]

He is very old and sage like...stroking his beard methodically whilst pondering how supporters from South Australia have accepted mediocrity and destroyed any chance of his beloved club's success.

How did a thread about disgust over public player baggings immediately turn into a diatribe on Raph...or rather, how did I know we wouldn't get through a season without scapegoat bashers crawling out from under their keyboards at the first opportunity??? Blake shut them up pretty quick, I guess Raph has to single-handedly win the season for us.

[Winmar7Fan]

So in his first game back...against geelong...in the most pressure game I have seen...he made some plays that didnt work 100%. You pointed out 1 which whilst not perfect wasnt really a mistake. And not only did you point it out here...but felt some need to slag him off on radio.

You are a joke.

And mate get this....It wont be your premiership. It will be the players premiership.

He made more than one mistake. His timing at the marking contest was pretty poor and he didn't stay down when we had two up on two or three occasions.

Hey, but if you look at Rooeys game or bj, or Joey, or half dozen others, I bet you could find half dozen mistakes they made as well.

And thats the whole point this serial hater is incapable of getting.

I dont blame the lads for not coming here when we have faceless anonomous hero's critisising them for everything and then, when challenged cant back up their hateful rantings.

And you are deadset right. Clowns who think a Saints flag will be 'their" flag are sorely mistaken. OLB will have no more right to claim it than any other supporter. We can enjoy and varcariously bask in their reflected glory but it isn't ours.

This can open a topic of debate on it's own.

How do you define this? How involved do you need to be? Does that mean the Club can't claim it either and only the players? How about all the coaching staff, Admin etc?

I've been involved, contributed and suffered for this Club for 45 years and it's been from the heart not as business to make money.

Even though I see your point Joffa I think all of us from players down to supporters are involved and contribute to a premiership in some form.

These players wouldn't have won a flag ( If we win ) if the Medics didn't keep them fit, the Coaches didn't do there part etc and Sponsors and Supporters didn't financially support the Club for these players to be out there at all.

After 45 years of what I've been through I'm not basking in Zac Dawsons glory. As far as I'm concerned when it happens it will be everyones who are involved with this Club in which ever way.

[plugger66]

I thought the point of the OP was not that Raph played a good/bad game, but that even if he was poor, Saints supporters shouldn't be ringing up talkback radio and bagging him out.

If I'm correct in my understanding of the OP then it would seem that OLB has either missed this point entirely, or completely ignored it, just to cnocentrate on bagging Raph.

I haven't seen anybody post that you shouldn't be able to criticise players on this forum, only that it was bad form to ring up a radio station and publicly bag them.

That is exactly the point. It has gone over a couple of people's heads.

Surely that happens amongst all 16 clubs.

Part and parcel of footy.

What upsets you about that? Does it make you feel ashamed of our supporters or do you fear that the footballer in question may be listening?

You know why it upsets me. Because it was 2 days after our best ever home and away win and only one saints person rang to support him plus a carlton supporter. I think it is a disgrace anyone would ring a radio station at any time to bag any player of any club but the timing was pathetic.

[degruch]

Could not find any racial accusations in this thread.

Well, that's sayin' something!

[saint66au]

People who bag their own teams players after a win will always make it to air on talkback shows. They have producers who vet the calls..and "Raph was rubbish drop him" is always going to be better radio than "Oh Id just like to add to the other callers comments about what a great win it was".

People who feel the need to make these sort of calls do so with the thought that "going agasint the grain" makes them look like such an educated football fan..a real thinker cos they dont just toe the party line It happens on here too

The other dangerous sort of footy fans are the ones that GENUINELY think their football knowledge is on a par with AFL selection committees and football depts..all beacuse theve coached Under 9's or been to training once a season

Heres a newsflash..HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of collective hours go into the selection of the side each week by AFL Clubs Football Dept's. More videos are studied and intel collected every week than anyone of us would see years of following footy. Yet apparently one look of the replay and maybe a trip to training arms some people with enough knowledge to decide that "Anyone who thinks Raph should get a game next week has no idea"

OLB..I like your posts, you obviously generally think before you type..but on this occasion you are veering very much towards this sort of fan IMO People, have an opinion, express it strongly, but please dont fall for the trap of putting yourself on level terms with those who spend every waking day (and big chunks of night) watching our players and their opponents for a livng. No they arent perfect, but at least any mistakes they make are educated ones in the course of the emplyment.

[joffaboy]

Could not find any racial accusations in this thread.

Well, that's sayin' something!

I didn't say there was. I mused that there was an ulterior motive, and that it seems to me that Gwilt and X get more critisism than anybody at the club except Jason BLake.

[plugger66]

Could not find any racial accusations in this thread.

Well, that's sayin' something!

I want to black ban this thead.

[Beej]

Settle Petals......

IMHFO I thought Raph played well enough to get a chance of being picked next week, but not well enough to be a certainty. I still believe he is being played out of position at halfback.

Could not find any racial accusations in this thread.

People who ring up radio stations to bag players in their own team are scum of the lowest order. From my point of view, if they wear the red, white and black, I will support them.

My two bobs worth.

When somebody plucks the race issue out of thin air you need ask questions about that person's morality IMO. People who are melodramatic, attention-seekers generally use methods like these during a debate - it may be easier than playing the ball but it's extremely cowardly IMO.

People invent these things when they have nothing else to base their argument on.

It's extremely sad that you cannot have a debate on a footy forum in this day and age without some coward using the race issue as a tool to make their point.

Racism is a serious issue in society today which affects, I'm sure, many people on this forum so to accuse someone of it without any base whatsoever should be a bannable offence IMO.

[joffaboy]

well said saints66au.

[degruch]

[It's extremely sad that you cannot have a debate on a footy forum in this day and age without some coward using the race issue as a tool to make their point.

Racism is a serious issue in society today which affects, I'm sure, many people on this forum so to accuse someone of it without any base whatsoever should be a bannable offence IMO.

What about Xenophobia?

[iwantmeseats]

Absolutely stunned that some think Raph had a good game.

Stunned.

Take off the rose tinters. Just because a footballer played for the St Kilda footy club in a great win does not mean they must have been world-beaters on the day.

You still dont get the point of the thread do you or were you one of the people who rang up.

Bingo.

As I said it is more than just critisism of a player.

Anonomous wankers who come out with hatefilled extremist rubbish have an ulterior agenda.

This OLB dill thinks because he has a bigotted hatefilled view, that it is correct.

Who said Raph had a good game? It wasn't bad, but he wasn't in the best.

Dont make things up unless you want your hatefilled agenda to be exposed.

Can someone explain to me how this topic has ended up in a debate about race?

Oh, my word.

Yep its so pathetic I want to thump my head against the wall. JB and others do this, and its absolute bulls***! You criticise a raph or a gwilt with no race agenda whatsoever and they play the race card. Almost as bad as if it was actual racism in the first place ffs!

[Young Georgie]

I thought the point of the OP was not that Raph played a good/bad game, but that even if he was poor, Saints supporters shouldn't be ringing up talkback radio and bagging him out.

If I'm correct in my understanding of the OP then it would seem that OLB has either missed this point entirely, or completely ignored it, just to cnocentrate on bagging Raph.

I haven't seen anybody post that you shouldn't be able to criticise players on this forum, only that it was bad form to ring up a radio station and publicly bag them.

That is exactly the point. It has gone over a couple of people's heads.

Surely that happens amongst all 16 clubs.

Part and parcel of footy.

What upsets you about that? Does it make you feel ashamed of our supporters or do you fear that the footballer in question may be listening?

You know why it upsets me. Because it was 2 days after our best ever home and away win and only one saints person rang to support him plus a carlton supporter. I think it is a disgrace anyone would ring a radio station at any time to bag any player of any club but the timing was pathetic.

It doesn't sound good that only 1 Saints fan rang to support Raph and unfortunately there'd be plenty of listerners loving that, but who knows if this was or is a true reflection of the support for the guy (by sounds of this site it's surely not). This is a radio show after all controlled by a producer who sets the agenda. They stick to schedules, time is limited, plenty happening in sport.
Perhaps there weren't many Raph supporters listening at the time who were in a position to ring or had the inclination to. Perhaps as there's been little criticism leveled at the Saints since the win that the producer dumped the pro Raph calls to see how far they could push the negative story.
The media has been biased on this game as we all know, why not in this instance as well.
Look at how KB pushed the Sheedy back to Tigerland ticket last week - it was sickening in its bias, manipulation and abuse of his position as a media broadcaster. Don't believe all you read and hear in the media.