Reincarnated says...Gram's kicking is shocking!

[DWOODROW]

Hmmm, interesting how you posting in the 3rd person upsets people.

Milty66 says these posters are a touch too precious.

Precious I think not. I don't really care but it has to be said I find it a touch strange to post like this. Almost as if you are not owning what you are saying

[Mr Magic]

Gram did kick the ball well because every time he kicked it it went plenty of distance the right way.

And that was after he ran and carried, burning off the chasers.

Top player.

Top game.

He is not a player who stops and props with the ball and then chips, including backwards, allowing opposition players to flood back.

Those in front of him know exactly what he is going to do every time - and what distance he will get.

well said.

i noticed in the stats in the herald sun that grammy gained easily the most distance for either team.

not always well-directed, true, but the good outweighed the bad by a fair degree. i gave him BOG.

Interesting that the 2 Coaching Panels (Saints and Tigers) both voted Gram as second best player on the ground (behind BJ only).

It would appear that those coaching panels don't share reincarnated's view of Gram's game.

[Milton66]

Hmmm, interesting how you posting in the 3rd person upsets people.

Milty66 says these posters are a touch too precious.

Precious I think not. I don't really care but it has to be said I find it a touch strange to post like this. Almost as if you are not owning what you are saying

no stranger than psoters who refer to players in the plural...

eg: We need the likes of the Dals and the BJ's to lift our midfield.

[Mr Magic]

Hmmm, interesting how you posting in the 3rd person upsets people.

Milty66 says these posters are a touch too precious.

Precious I think not. I don't really care but it has to be said I find it a touch strange to post like this. Almost as if you are not owning what you are saying

no stranger than psoters who refer to players in the plural...

eg: We need the likes of the Dals and the BJ's to lift our midfield.

Or stranger than posters who post under multiple names?

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Gram was one of our very best, but the number of times he butchered the ball almost, in fact did, become laughable. The Age had him down for 6 "critical errors" ("damaging, unforced errors"), out of our team total of 34. I thought he may have even had more than that. But at least he's getting the ball, which is a great start. Hopefully he'll get the disposal much better soon, too.

[st.byron]

Interesting that the 2 Coaching Panels (Saints and Tigers) both voted Gram as second best player on the ground (behind BJ only).

It would appear that those coaching panels don't share reincarnated's view of Gram's game.

Do you have a link for the coaches votes Magic?

[Mr Magic]

Interesting that the 2 Coaching Panels (Saints and Tigers) both voted Gram as second best player on the ground (behind BJ only).

It would appear that those coaching panels don't share reincarnated's view of Gram's game.

Do you have a link for the coaches votes Magic?

Sorry heard them on SEN - Mark Doran's program :-

BJ 10 votes (2 x 5)
Gram 8 votes (2 x 4)

I started laughing out loud when I heard that, thinking of the threads on here about his game.

I know that CJ got a vote and that Tuck was the only Tigers player to get any votes

[66 Saints]

Gram did kick the ball well because every time he kicked it it went plenty of distance the right way.

And that was after he ran and carried, burning off the chasers.

Top player.

Top game.

He is not a player who stops and props with the ball and then chips, including backwards, allowing opposition players to flood back.

Those in front of him know exactly what he is going to do every time - and what distance he will get.

well said.

i noticed in the stats in the herald sun that grammy gained easily the most distance for either team.

not always well-directed, true, but the good outweighed the bad by a fair degree. i gave him BOG.

Interesting that the 2 Coaching Panels (Saints and Tigers) both voted Gram as second best player on the ground (behind BJ only).

It would appear that those coaching panels don't share reincarnated's view of Gram's game.

isn't the topic about his kicking? 7-8 shockers out of 20. If Gram kicked at the level of BJ he might have been best on ground. He doesn't so he's not a 'Top' player or have a 'Top' game. He had a good game taking it on with his run and is a good player with a kicking definiency.

Back to the OP turnovers against Geelong can be very costly. Recall many times in the 07 Grandfinal where Geelong swept it the length of the field from a Port turnover to score a goal.

[Mr Magic]

Gram did kick the ball well because every time he kicked it it went plenty of distance the right way.

And that was after he ran and carried, burning off the chasers.

Top player.

Top game.

He is not a player who stops and props with the ball and then chips, including backwards, allowing opposition players to flood back.

Those in front of him know exactly what he is going to do every time - and what distance he will get.

well said.

i noticed in the stats in the herald sun that grammy gained easily the most distance for either team.

not always well-directed, true, but the good outweighed the bad by a fair degree. i gave him BOG.

Interesting that the 2 Coaching Panels (Saints and Tigers) both voted Gram as second best player on the ground (behind BJ only).

It would appear that those coaching panels don't share reincarnated's view of Gram's game.

isn't the topic about his kicking? 7-8 shockers out of 20. If Gram kicked at the level of BJ he might have been best on ground. He doesn't so he's not a 'Top' player or have a 'Top' game. He had a good game taking it on with his run and is a good player with a kicking definiency.

With respect 66 saints, I would suggest that if BOTH coaching panels felt he was the second best player on the ground, then they have a differing view to yourself and others as to the value of Gram's game (including his kicking).

I might humbly suggest that they rated his game better than 'good' and one could reasonably say that they considered his game to be a 'top' one.
Better than anybody else out there except BJ.

[Batnoe]

Some people really need to know what a good footy player is.

Gram is a great footy player that can find the ball. Gram is also a terrible user of the footy in some instances. Just how good could he be if he used the ball like Aaron Davey, leon davis, Alan Didak, S Johnson, B Goddard, L Hayes etc etc??!!!

He has no defensive skilles whatsoever, he never tackles the man, instead he watches the ball (basketball minded) does he know he can tackle them and keep the ball pinned to them instead of waiting for them to get rid of the ball?

[Moods]

THanks for explaining what a good footy player is. I'll be watching with renewed interest now that I know.

[Batnoe]

THanks for explaining what a good footy player is. I'll be watching with renewed interest now that I know.

No-

Some peoples view of a good player is someone who can get the ball- in hindsight that is all Gram can do. I cannot dispose of it better than 80% of the time (how many floaters does he do in a game) (did you see that kick he did on the wing that went about 8m and marked by a Richmond player?) + plus he is s*** defensivily. So until Gram picks those 2 aspects of his game up he is not a great player

[Milton66]

Hmmm, interesting how you posting in the 3rd person upsets people.

Milty66 says these posters are a touch too precious.

Precious I think not. I don't really care but it has to be said I find it a touch strange to post like this. Almost as if you are not owning what you are saying

no stranger than psoters who refer to players in the plural...

eg: We need the likes of the Dals and the BJ's to lift our midfield.

Or stranger than posters who post under multiple names?

No not really.

Milton66 says that the Rodgerfoxes, Sp2008's and Judsons of this world are better off away from the forum.

Perhaps you should PM me Magic... or should tha be 'the Mr Magics of the world"?

[Iceman234]

Gram did kick the ball well because every time he kicked it it went plenty of distance the right way.

And that was after he ran and carried, burning off the chasers.

Top player.

Top game.

He is not a player who stops and props with the ball and then chips, including backwards, allowing opposition players to flood back.

Those in front of him know exactly what he is going to do every time - and what distance he will get.

well said.

i noticed in the stats in the herald sun that grammy gained easily the most distance for either team.

not always well-directed, true, but the good outweighed the bad by a fair degree. i gave him BOG.

Interesting that the 2 Coaching Panels (Saints and Tigers) both voted Gram as second best player on the ground (behind BJ only).

It would appear that those coaching panels don't share reincarnated's view of Gram's game.

St Kilda v Richmond
10 Goddard (St K)
8 Gram (St K)
5 Koschitzke (St K)
3 Dal Santo (St K)
2 Tuck (Rich)
1 Hayes (St K)
1 Jones (St K)

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

both coaches clearly know nothing about football and footballers and should both be sacked

and of those i had goddard gram jones and kosi in my top five for us

sorry i put geary in as well, i am wrong sometimes

[Mr Magic]

THanks for explaining what a good footy player is. I'll be watching with renewed interest now that I know.

No-

Some peoples view of a good player is someone who can get the ball- in hindsight that is all Gram can do. I cannot dispose of it better than 80% of the time (how many floaters does he do in a game) (did you see that kick he did on the wing that went about 8m and marked by a Richmond player?) + plus he is s*** defensivily. So until Gram picks those 2 aspects of his game up he is not a great player

Maybe you should be a member of either the Saints or Tigers coaching panels because they obviously can't regognize the difference between good/great/bad/terrible/servicable/excellent/poor players.

They only considered him the second best player on the ground, better than 42 other players who were playing on Sunday.

But, what would they know? They're only coaches at AFL level.

[Batnoe]

THanks for explaining what a good footy player is. I'll be watching with renewed interest now that I know.

No-

Some peoples view of a good player is someone who can get the ball- in hindsight that is all Gram can do. I cannot dispose of it better than 80% of the time (how many floaters does he do in a game) (did you see that kick he did on the wing that went about 8m and marked by a Richmond player?) + plus he is s*** defensivily. So until Gram picks those 2 aspects of his game up he is not a great player

Maybe you should be a member of either the Saints or Tigers coaching panels because they obviously can't regognize the difference between good/great/bad/terrible/servicable/excellent/poor players.

They only considered him the second best player on the ground, better than 42 other players who were playing on Sunday.

But, what would they know? They're only coaches at AFL level.

So he has a couple of good games a year....

It will come down if he can become consistant, pick up his kicking, and lay a defensive tackle instead of dancing around on the spot trying to swat the ball away.- Watch him more cloesly

I did not say for once that he didnt play well, in fact i thought he was best on ground with Goddard, my brother lives in London and he asked who were best players

my answer- Goddard, Gram, Kosi, Hayes, Ball

So i know nothing about footy? All i said was, he will not be looked at as a great footballer like Ablett, Judd Hayes until he learns how to kick the ball more often to his target- SIMPLE MOTHER

[Iceman234]

Gees Batnoe, I reckon he was up there too, and I reckon he did have a few turnovers.

But watch the game as a whole, and have a look at how many others completely f***ed up their disposal...

And take into account how far he'd run with the ball, and what was ahead of him on the field when he had to kick.

He often gets team mates "onside" with his runs, and when he looks up, has no-one in front of him.

I still say he's an integral part of our team structure and will him to keep taking the oppo's on and run and kick long.

[Batnoe]

Gees Batnoe, I reckon he was up there too, and I reckon he did have a few turnovers.

But watch the game as a whole, and have a look at how many others completely f***ed up their disposal...

And take into account how far he'd run with the ball, and what was ahead of him on the field when he had to kick.

He often gets team mates "onside" with his runs, and when he looks up, has no-one in front of him.

I still say he's an integral part of our team structure and will him to keep taking the oppo's on and run and kick long.

Yes. But i mean generally!!

His disposal is generally poor and he cannot tackle - or wont tackle

His game was genius on the weekend, but he needs to be consitant and hit targets!

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Well and good to talk about being a 70m player, running for 20 metres and kicking another 50, but if what we say of his 70m plays is they don't hurt us coming the other way, it's window dressing. 34 touches and ripping the Richmond structure to shreds as he did over the weekend is a very good performance... I suspect the frustration with Gram is that it wouldn't take much in the way of straightening up for him to be tearing games apart with 10 less touches.

What worries me is when it comes to games like the one upcoming, we're deep enough to be able to suspect that after Dal, Joey, Hayes and Goddard are accounted for, Gram's unlikely to attract a shutdown player. Unlike the aforementioned however, it's more difficult to have faith that Gram will:
1) Do enough damage with his touches to win his matchup.
2) Not allow an opponent to run riot the other way.

He's one of the wildcards that can turn the game in our favour - and the upside is that coming off a 34 touch game, he's in some form.

[PJ]

His disposal is generally poor

In any reasonable argument that would mean at least 50% of the time. Yes he needs work but I think you are overstating his problem.

instead of dancing around on the spot trying to swat the ball away

Can't recall ever seeing this either or this just artistic impression of what you saw.

[66 Saints]

Gram did kick the ball well because every time he kicked it it went plenty of distance the right way.

And that was after he ran and carried, burning off the chasers.

Top player.

Top game.

He is not a player who stops and props with the ball and then chips, including backwards, allowing opposition players to flood back.

Those in front of him know exactly what he is going to do every time - and what distance he will get.

well said.

i noticed in the stats in the herald sun that grammy gained easily the most distance for either team.

not always well-directed, true, but the good outweighed the bad by a fair degree. i gave him BOG.

Interesting that the 2 Coaching Panels (Saints and Tigers) both voted Gram as second best player on the ground (behind BJ only).

It would appear that those coaching panels don't share reincarnated's view of Gram's game.

isn't the topic about his kicking? 7-8 shockers out of 20. If Gram kicked at the level of BJ he might have been best on ground. He doesn't so he's not a 'Top' player or have a 'Top' game. He had a good game taking it on with his run and is a good player with a kicking definiency.

With respect 66 saints, I would suggest that if BOTH coaching panels felt he was the second best player on the ground, then they have a differing view to yourself and others as to the value of Gram's game (including his kicking).

I might humbly suggest that they rated his game better than 'good' and one could reasonably say that they considered his game to be a 'top' one.
Better than anybody else out there except BJ.

OKay being new to this I just lost a massive post by being logged out. I'll try to paraphrase. Mr M - I can accept a very good game for this week. My rating as good was probably a bit harsh as I get very frustrated with bad disposal. I acknowledge he got a lot of it and gained a lot of meters. I can accept the coaches view of him being in the top couple on the field. They obviously believe his run and carry and ability to take the game on outweighed his kicking. But I can't accept someone having 6 critical errors and be classified as having a top game. Lets not bother getting into ranking definitions lets just say in my book there is only one top game which is the best on.

In my book one outstanding attribute (run) does not offset two deficiences (defence and kicking) and balance out into a top player as some have alluded he is.

That said, it takes all sorts, not everyone is or needs to be a top player for a team to be successful, it takes all sorts which is part of the beauty of a team game. Gram doesn't tackle and harrass like CJ, kick like Dal, extract like Bally or Lenny, but he brings a different qualitity to the table. Together they combine into a pretty darn formiddable midfield. I do agree with reincarnated's OP. Gram does butcher the ball, our next opponent will likely make us pay for these errors. Does 9 pages make Grammy a controversial player. Doubt we'd also get 9 pages on why Luke Ball doesn't dance around packs and break the game open with 5 bounce runs, questioning Reiwoldt's spoiling ability and debating why Gardiner doesn't score rovers goals like Milney, but thats not what they are in the team for.

[reincarnated]

Gram did kick the ball well because every time he kicked it it went plenty of distance the right way.

And that was after he ran and carried, burning off the chasers.

Top player.

Top game.

He is not a player who stops and props with the ball and then chips, including backwards, allowing opposition players to flood back.

Those in front of him know exactly what he is going to do every time - and what distance he will get.

well said.

i noticed in the stats in the herald sun that grammy gained easily the most distance for either team.

not always well-directed, true, but the good outweighed the bad by a fair degree. i gave him BOG.

Interesting that the 2 Coaching Panels (Saints and Tigers) both voted Gram as second best player on the ground (behind BJ only).

It would appear that those coaching panels don't share reincarnated's view of Gram's game.

isn't the topic about his kicking? 7-8 shockers out of 20. If Gram kicked at the level of BJ he might have been best on ground. He doesn't so he's not a 'Top' player or have a 'Top' game. He had a good game taking it on with his run and is a good player with a kicking definiency.

With respect 66 saints, I would suggest that if BOTH coaching panels felt he was the second best player on the ground, then they have a differing view to yourself and others as to the value of Gram's game (including his kicking).

I might humbly suggest that they rated his game better than 'good' and one could reasonably say that they considered his game to be a 'top' one.
Better than anybody else out there except BJ.

OKay being new to this I just lost a massive post by being logged out. I'll try to paraphrase. Mr M - I can accept a very good game for this week. My rating as good was probably a bit harsh as I get very frustrated with bad disposal. I acknowledge he got a lot of it and gained a lot of meters. I can accept the coaches view of him being in the top couple on the field. They obviously believe his run and carry and ability to take the game on outweighed his kicking. But I can't accept someone having 6 critical errors and be classified as having a top game. Lets not bother getting into ranking definitions lets just say in my book there is only one top game which is the best on.

In my book one outstanding attribute (run) does not offset two deficiences (defence and kicking) and balance out into a top player as some have alluded he is.

That said, it takes all sorts, not everyone is or needs to be a top player for a team to be successful, it takes all sorts which is part of the beauty of a team game. Gram doesn't tackle and harrass like CJ, kick like Dal, extract like Bally or Lenny, but he brings a different qualitity to the table. Together they combine into a pretty darn formiddable midfield. I do agree with reincarnated's OP. Gram does butcher the ball, our next opponent will likely make us pay for these errors. Does 9 pages make Grammy a controversial player. Doubt we'd also get 9 pages on why Luke Ball doesn't dance around packs and break the game open with 5 bounce runs, questioning Reiwoldt's spoiling ability and debating why Gardiner doesn't score rovers goals like Milney, but thats not what they are in the team for.

bingo

[matrix]

i gotta say when the third one went over roos out stretched arms i was ready to throw the remote at him...
and that little kick over at the far boundary
did all the hard work then did some crazy little slew off the boot...
tired maybe?
good player but he frustrates me

[To the top]

"throw the remote at him".

Says it all really.

Obviously does not see the absolute amount of work done to put himself in the receiving position with one intent in mind, to straighten up and go straight at the goals.

As for having no defensive skills - absolute crap.

[SainterK]

Is this thread still going