Gilbo up forward

[Milton66]

Well, I think there's some apologies due for "send out the runner" from those that ridiculed him.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Gilbert is in All Australian form as a back, why play him forward ?

Because we could really do with his marking ability, athleticism and tackling pressure up there (across half forward, preferably, to allow Rooey and Kosi to stay deep in the 50 for more of the game). We have plenty of guys that can cover for him down back. He could play the sort of role O'Hailphin played so well for Carlton last night, but even better.
Gilbo's 194cm and extremely quick and mobile. Anyone who was quick enough to keep up with him would probably not get near him in the air and it would be great to have his long, penetrating kicking going deep into Kosi and Rooey. It's harder to play up forward than down back, so it could be the perfect time to put him forward, now that his confidence is way up.
Anytime you have someone who could do well up forward it's worth seeing how they go there. When was the last time a "defender" was a top 5 draft pick? Those that can play up forward are drafted first because they're more valuable, aren't they? It's all well and good to have a strong backline, but it's more important to have a stronger team OVERALL.
I believe we would be stronger overall if we had someone good, who's tall, yet mobile across half forward, to give us a genuine marking target between half forward and the wings. Rooey had to keep leading up there last night, because Gwilt was dropped and we had no-one else who looked like taking a mark in that area. That left Kosi alone in the 50 with 2 blokes on him. Hardly ideal.
Geelong would LOVE to see us do that against them. We often kick it long to Schneider, Milne, Geary, McQualter, etc at half forward, but imagine what Mackie, Milburn etc would do to them in the air? Putting someone like Fisher or Gilbert to HF would also mean there was less likelihood of our opponents having someone tall spare, to play loose in front of Roo and Kosi, because they'd have to play on Fisher, or Gilbert instead.
Fisher was played on the wing for most/all of last night, when he could have gone to half forward to give us that marking target. We're effectively 5 games clear of third spot at the moment and have Max, Zac, Blake and Goose who can play tall play down back, to free up either, or both of the Sam's. So what's the harm of putting one up to half forward to see how they go? If it doesn't work out we're allowed to move them back and there would be plenty of the year left. Otherwise, put BJ there.
The backline isn't everything and is not more important than the overall team. I know I'd rather see us win the flag by kicking bigger scores, like Geelong did 2 years ago, than win in low scoring/grinding contests, like Sydney did a few years ago. Life's too short for those!

[saint66au]

I know I'd rather see us win the flag by kicking bigger scores, like Geelong did 2 years ago, than win in low scoring/grinding contests, like Sydney did a few years ago. Life's too short for those!

I just want to see us win a flag

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I want to see us play our best AND win the flag. We can definitely do it.

[bergholt]

Zac? How do we know he can play forward? He's had one shot this year which was a mongrel but admittedly was a goal. That's the first goal of his career. He averages 3.9 marks a game (of course, playing back) so we have no real reason to suspect that he might be a great marking player. Why would we have confidence in playing him forward?

Just had to dig this one up, sorry bergholt, I wouldn't have believed it myself!

man, i was really hoping no-one would remember that post.

epic fail for me.

[thirty-seven!?]

Gilbert is in All Australian form as a back, why play him forward ?

When was the last time a "defender" was a top 5 draft pick?

Michael Hurley (Essendon) 2008 NAB AFL Draft 1st round selection (Essendon) No. 5 overall

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Thanks for that, but I think you get my point. If you have someone who's good enough to play up forward and you have enough guys to cover him down back (which we clearly do), he's worth trying up there. We could benefit greatly from a good, mobile, marking target across half forward. Then we'd be really strong all over the ground.

[matrix]

gilbert down back thanks
where he belongs
gun
AA

[saintsRrising]

With slows of Blake, Max and Zac down back....you need Gilbo's pace there to offset them.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

With slows of Blake, Max and Zac down back....you need Gilbo's pace there to offset them.

Not if we put someone else quick down there, to feed off those other guys.
We don't need all of Max, Zac, Blake, Fisher and Gilbert (all over 190cm) down there. That's way too top heavy. If we put someone like Gilbo up forward we could throw someone like Ray or Geary down back, to offset the run lost by moving Gilbert forward. Our half forward line is way too short at the moment, so putting one of them down back to provide that run and polished disposal and moving someone like Gilbo forward would give us a much better balance.
We'd then have better marking from half forward to the wings (Gilbert) and a bit more run from defence (someone like Ray, or even Gram again) and we wouldn't be so top heavy down there. Balance is the key!

[vacuous space]

Defenders go early in drafts every year. If the scouts had any idea Gilbert would be what he is now he would have gone a lot higher.

Top defenders taken in the last five drafts:
2004: #6 Tom Williams (Bulldogs)
2005: #3 Xavier Ellis (Hawthorn)
2006: #3 Lachlan Hansen (North Melbourne)
2007: #6 David Myers (Essendon)
2008: #5 Michael Hurley (Essendon)

Gilbert's not going anywhere. He has more groundballs and contested marks than any other St Kilda defender. Given Ross' love of contested ball, I'm guessing he appreciates that. Gilbert is a weapon in the air and at ground level. He's quick and agile enough to keep up with forwards of any size. He's a unique talent. My guess is he'll stay in defence and probably line up Steve Johnson in a couple of weeks.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

That list proves my point exactly. In the same drafts, those that play up forward were taken higher EVERY year and at www.footydraft.com, they said in his bio that Tom Williams was a "forward" when drafted and Xavier Ellis was playing midfield back then, not back. All these guys were drafted as "forwards" in the same drafts:

2004: #2 Jarryd Roughead, #5 Lance Franklin, #6 Tom Williams
2005: #4 Josh Kennedy #6 Beau Dowler
2006: #2 Scott Gumbleton #6 Mitch Thorpe
2007: #5 Jarrad Grant
2008: #1 Jack Watts #2 Nick Naitanui (Ruck/forward) #6 Chris Yarran

That makes it 3 versus 11. Those that can play well up forward get picked first, pretty much every time, as was the case in all those drafts. It's also why Rooey and Pavlich and Franklin and Hird and Carey etc play/played mostly/all up forward and not down back. They could all have kicked ass down back, but they're played forward to WIN games. That's why I'd play Gilbert (or Fisher, or BJ, at the very least) across half forward, in the lead-up role, because they're good enough to. Especially since we have so many that can cover for him down back. As long as one of those first two is down back, we can easily afford to put the other one in an attacking role up forward.
Lets not forget a certain F Gehrig came second in our B&F at full back in his first year with us and look how well the switch to the forward line worked. And then there's Goddard and Gram's move out of defence last year. We have a pressing need for someone tall and mobile who marks well, between half forward and the wings. Across half back, Geelong have Mackie, Milburn and Enright (all approx 190cm). Are we going to back the likes of MacQualter, Geary and Schneider in the air against them? They'd probably eat them for breakfast.
I'd rather Rooey and Kosi be able to stay inside 50, because someone like Gilbert is marking the ball between the 50 and the wings. Even if it costs us a little down back. And I doubt Ross would mind having Gilbert's ferocious tackling in the forward line, either. I know I wouldn't.

[Quixote]

Do not discount the importance of Sean Dempster in these arguments.

This guy is a very mobile 191cm defender - can definately play small, can counter-attack and can play tall-ish too.

SD will be back in the side very soon I feel.

Let's see what they do with Gilbert then.

Personally, I don't think he'll go forward. Which leaves us with the 3rd foward position still open.


It is obviously a question of balance and I am intrigued as to what the coaching panel does on this.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I'm also warming to the idea of Dempster, although I don't remember a thing about how he went for us last year (despite going to about 18 games and watching probably every one of our games on TV/Foxtel at least once.) He could definitely be one to put down back, to free up Gilbo or Fisher to play forward.

[plugger66]

I'm also warming to the idea of Dempster, although I don't remember a thing about how he went for us last year (despite going to about 18 games and watching probably every one of our games on TV/Foxtel at least once.) He could definitely be one to put down back, to free up Gilbo or Fisher to play forward.

Your warming to a guy you admit you know nothing about. You are obviously easily convinced.

[vacuous space]

That list proves my point exactly. ... Those that can play well up forward get picked first, pretty much every time, as was the case in all those drafts.

Your point seems to be that Gilbert should move forward, which is far from proven. You questioned earlier whether defenders go early at all, which they clearly do. Hansen and Ellis, at the very least, were U18AAs as defenders. Even if forwards do get taken earlier in the draft then defenders as a rule, that says more about where junior coaches play their talent. A lot of players taken as forwards shift back - not many go the other way.

Gilbert was drafted as a defender. He's played most of his senior footy as a defender. The games where he's played up forward he's had far less impact than when he played back. Very few teams play with more than two tall forwards. Even with Geelong's tall backline, I suspect we'll play two permanent tall forwards, as they will against our tall backline. Gilbert will probably play a defensive role.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I'm also warming to the idea of Dempster, although I don't remember a thing about how he went for us last year (despite going to about 18 games and watching probably every one of our games on TV/Foxtel at least once.) He could definitely be one to put down back, to free up Gilbo or Fisher to play forward.

Your warming to a guy you admit you know nothing about. You are obviously easily convinced.

Did I say I "know nothing about" him? Feel free to read what I wrote again and get it RIGHT. Unless you of course don't want to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Just because I don't remember how he went for us last year doesn't mean I know nothing about him, does it? Unless I'm greatly mistaken, last year wasn't his first year in the AFL. I've seen him play before and know his attributes and how he plays. I believe he's possibly the ideal type we could do with in coming weeks, if that's OK with you.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

That list proves my point exactly. ... Those that can play well up forward get picked first, pretty much every time, as was the case in all those drafts.

Your point seems to be that Gilbert should move forward, which is far from proven. You questioned earlier whether defenders go early at all, which they clearly do. Hansen and Ellis, at the very least, were U18AAs as defenders. Even if forwards do get taken earlier in the draft then defenders as a rule, that says more about where junior coaches play their talent. A lot of players taken as forwards shift back - not many go the other way.

Gilbert was drafted as a defender. He's played most of his senior footy as a defender. The games where he's played up forward he's had far less impact than when he played back. Very few teams play with more than two tall forwards. Even with Geelong's tall backline, I suspect we'll play two permanent tall forwards, as they will against our tall backline. Gilbert will probably play a defensive role.

Is anything proven until it's tried? It's called taking a chance. It can just take a bit of guts. And I don't just mean for a quarter here or there. Our coaching staff obviously didn't play him up forward all summer because they didn't see the same potential, so I'm hardly the only one. Based on his talent, skills and attributes (and height) I'd take the punt, especially with so many weeks to go. If it doesn't work out, he can always be moved back (with plenty of time for them to become settled again, before the finals).
I'm also well aware of the fact that "defenders" go early in the draft, but as the facts proved, on every occasion they were taken after someone who played predominantly forward, and they were well outnumbered.
I'm also aware that "Very few teams play with more than two tall forwards", but very few have as much tall talent as we do and it also doesn't mean having more than two isn't what's BEST FOR US. It means F-all what other teams are doing. We need to do what's best for us, if we want to reach our potential. Not copy what was best for someone else.
And Gilbo is relatively tall, but he's hardly a big, lumbering type, otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it. He's at least as mobile and quick as Jimmy (and Charlie Gardiner was) but he just happens to be taller. If he was played on the flank he could stay out of Roo and Kosi's way and provide the marking target we need (between the 50 and the wings, to enable Roo and Kosi to stay dangerous inside 50).

[plugger66]

I'm also warming to the idea of Dempster, although I don't remember a thing about how he went for us last year (despite going to about 18 games and watching probably every one of our games on TV/Foxtel at least once.) He could definitely be one to put down back, to free up Gilbo or Fisher to play forward.

Your warming to a guy you admit you know nothing about. You are obviously easily convinced.

Did I say I "know nothing about" him? Feel free to read what I wrote again and get it RIGHT. Unless you of course don't want to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Just because I don't remember how he went for us last year doesn't mean I know nothing about him, does it? Unless I'm greatly mistaken, last year wasn't his first year in the AFL. I've seen him play before and know his attributes and how he plays. I believe he's possibly the ideal type we could do with in coming weeks, if that's OK with you.

So you dont know how he went last year with the team you follow but you know how he went with Sydney. Yep lets listen to you then. Admit it you are listening to hype on here. i am not sure but are you the guy who said wants to drop players if they have one bad week?