What This Match Proved?

[Moccha]

This game proved that we're s*** and don't deserve to be 12-0 and a healthy percentage break on top of the ladder, which means the other 15 clubs below us are even shittier.

[undecided]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/member.php?u=44799

im assuming you are the same guy

[bergholt]

I find it really interesting that you claim Ling and Scarlett as matchwinners and yet don't include Hudghton and Jones who basicly do the same job for us?

seriously? i love both max and cj, but scarlett and ling respectively are undeniably better players.

I'm also surprized that you wouldn't consider Luke Ball's tackling and clearance work worthy enough to be included in this list?

yeah, this one is a bit debatable. i think in general tackling and clearances don't win you games. but add him in if you want.

And have Mackie, Stokes and Hawkins shown more this year than Ray?

i'm talking about matchwinners. stokes is a matchwinner in the same way as milne. mackie is a matchwinner in the same way as gilbert or s fisher, or even goddard playing across half-back. these two are not debatable, i don't think. hawkins a bit more so, but a full-forward is in the right position to be a matchwinner - three big grabs and goals and he can turn the game, as we see with kosi.

ray's decent but he's an outside mid - i don't really see him as a matchwinner at this stage in his career - maybe in another year he'll be consistent enough that i'll have him on the list.

[reincarnated]

I find it really interesting that you claim Ling and Scarlett as matchwinners and yet don't include Hudghton and Jones who basicly do the same job for us?

seriously? i love both max and cj, but scarlett and ling respectively are undeniably better players.

I'm also surprized that you wouldn't consider Luke Ball's tackling and clearance work worthy enough to be included in this list?

yeah, this one is a bit debatable. i think in general tackling and clearances don't win you games. but add him in if you want.

And have Mackie, Stokes and Hawkins shown more this year than Ray?

i'm talking about matchwinners. stokes is a matchwinner in the same way as milne. mackie is a matchwinner in the same way as gilbert or s fisher, or even goddard playing across half-back. these two are not debatable, i don't think. hawkins a bit more so, but a full-forward is in the right position to be a matchwinner - three big grabs and goals and he can turn the game, as we see with kosi.

ray's decent but he's an outside mid - i don't really see him as a matchwinner at this stage in his career - maybe in another year he'll be consistent enough that i'll have him on the list.

On the money, the only player that can draw the slightest comparison is scarlett and maximus - both are guns

Ray Farren has been super since crossing over, however he is a good player in the latter part of a good teams' 22

Mackie can be exposed as long as our forwards are playing well on the day, he is super when he get's help from Milburn, Harley, Longergan, Scarlett and Taylor as they all seem to do, it makes them look better as they all have the courage, committment and faith to leave their man and assist

[Devilhead]

Mr. Stool still hasn't given an explanation as to why he has changed from a neutral observer last week to a supposed Saints supporter this week

Seriously embarrassing for him that he has been caught out so easily

But lets get back to Mr. Colon Cannon's acutely intelligent and brilliant perception that if we lost Roo, Kosi, Hayes, Monty and Goddard all at the same time that we might be somewhat in trouble ...... well no s*** Sherlock - tells us something we don't know!!!!

What our little aggressive rectal excretion friend fails to realise is that his blindingly obvious observation extends to every club in the league

FWIW at times this year we have had Lenny, Gram, Milne, Gilbert, Maguire and Hudghton missing - also Goddard, Dal Santo, Ball, Kosi, and Fisher (add some guys from the above list here as well) have all had shocking games at one time or another - adding to this we have Riewoldt who was underdone in the first 2 games of the season and played with the flu for 2 weeks just recently - the only shining constant in all this is Montagna who has been flying all year

Hold on let me check the ladder ........ ahhhh saints on top 12 and zip .... fantastic given some guys have been missing and others have been out of sorts

If we do so happen to lose few of our really gun players all at the same time well just like any side we would do our best to cover them and concentrate on playing TEAM football and adjust our style to cover our weaknesses

Let's just hope that the playing group do not have the same worries as the OP because if they do then we are really up stool creek!!!

[Mr Magic]

So if CJ does a 'job' on Ablett, or Bartell, or Selwood similar to the 'jobs' he's done on Kerr and others all year that's not considered a 'matchwinning' performance, yet Ling doing a 'job' on Dal or Lenny is?

And was Max's 'job' on Fev last Friday not considered as 'matchwinning' as Scarlett's 'jobs'? Or is he only added to your list because he runs down the ground, whereas Max doesn't?

There are not too many forwards around who consider Max to be their 'bunny'. Surely his ability to limit golakickers from their normal potency should be considered as 'matchwinning'?

[Devilhead]

i think in general tackling and clearances don't win you games.

What about abnormal, rare or unusual tackling and clearances can they win you games??

three big grabs and goals and he can turn the game

So can 3 tackles or 3 clearances - general or not!!!

I know you said to add Ball in - fair enough - but our tackling and clearance work have had a massive impact as to why we sit on top of the ladder at this stage of the season

[bergholt]

So if CJ does a 'job' on Ablett, or Bartell, or Selwood similar to the 'jobs' he's done on Kerr and others all year that's not considered a 'matchwinning' performance, yet Ling doing a 'job' on Dal or Lenny is?

not sure how you're debating this. ling is a better player than cj - he's as good at stopping a man but more damaging when he has the ball.

i don't consider a stopping job on its own a match-winning performance, otherwise jayden attard would have been a match-winner. i love that cj can stop a man and get damaging possessions himself, but ling is better at it.

And was Max's 'job' on Fev last Friday not considered as 'matchwinning' as Scarlett's 'jobs'? Or is he only added to your list because he runs down the ground, whereas Max doesn't?

There are not too many forwards around who consider Max to be their 'bunny'. Surely his ability to limit golakickers from their normal potency should be considered as 'matchwinning'?

scarlett is more a match-winner because he's as good at max playing on a man, and better when he has the ball. same as cj and ling. i don't know exactly how you can debate this either.

again, i don't think stopping a gun forward in itself is a match-winning performance - it's defensive in that it makes it hard for the other team to win, but someone still has to step up and win the game - especially against a very good side like geelong.

[plugger66]

So if CJ does a 'job' on Ablett, or Bartell, or Selwood similar to the 'jobs' he's done on Kerr and others all year that's not considered a 'matchwinning' performance, yet Ling doing a 'job' on Dal or Lenny is?

And was Max's 'job' on Fev last Friday not considered as 'matchwinning' as Scarlett's 'jobs'? Or is he only added to your list because he runs down the ground, whereas Max doesn't?

There are not too many forwards around who consider Max to be their 'bunny'. Surely his ability to limit golakickers from their normal potency should be considered as 'matchwinning'?

Probably more match saving IMO. There is only reason Max has never been AA and that is because his disposal is average at best. Great stopper, probably best in the game but the opposition want him to have the ball in his hands which is an issue.

[bergholt]

I know you said to add Ball in - fair enough - but our tackling and clearance work have had a massive impact as to why we sit on top of the ladder at this stage of the season

yeah, look, you're probably right. i just think that no one individual has ever won a game by getting a lot of tackles, and only very rarely by getting a lot of clearances.

the game i remember where bally did this most was against geelong (coincidentally) at kp in about 04? yeah, round 18. 15 tackles, can't find the clearances but i think he had 10. almost won us the game - but that was also because he had 25 possessions and 2 goals. still i don't reckon it was the clearances and tackles on their own.

[Mr Magic]

So if CJ does a 'job' on Ablett, or Bartell, or Selwood similar to the 'jobs' he's done on Kerr and others all year that's not considered a 'matchwinning' performance, yet Ling doing a 'job' on Dal or Lenny is?

not sure how you're debating this. ling is a better player than cj - he's as good at stopping a man but more damaging when he has the ball.

i don't consider a stopping job on its own a match-winning performance, otherwise jayden attard would have been a match-winner. i love that cj can stop a man and get damaging possessions himself, but ling is better at it.

And was Max's 'job' on Fev last Friday not considered as 'matchwinning' as Scarlett's 'jobs'? Or is he only added to your list because he runs down the ground, whereas Max doesn't?

There are not too many forwards around who consider Max to be their 'bunny'. Surely his ability to limit golakickers from their normal potency should be considered as 'matchwinning'?

scarlett is more a match-winner because he's as good at max playing on a man, and better when he has the ball. same as cj and ling. i don't know exactly how you can debate this either.

again, i don't think stopping a gun forward in itself is a match-winning performance - it's defensive in that it makes it hard for the other team to win, but someone still has to step up and win the game - especially against a very good side like geelong.

So we obviously have a different view of what is a 'match-winning performance'.

If CJ can shut Gablett down and keep him to under 15 disposals, then I would consider that negative perpormance to ahve gone a long way to winning the game for us.

The same applies to Max.

But it's only my opinion.

[Devilhead]

Probably more match saving IMO.

Was Leo Barry's mark in the 05 Grand Final match winning or match saving or was it both or was it just a mark and nothing more???

What about Bob Murray's grab in the 66 GF with seconds left???

[plugger66]

Probably more match saving IMO.

Was Leo Barry's mark in the 05 Grand Final match winning or match saving or was it both or was it just a mark and nothing more???

What about Bob Murray's grab in the 66 GF???

Match winning I would think. I dont see what that has to do with Max though.

[Devilhead]

Probably more match saving IMO.

Was Leo Barry's mark in the 05 Grand Final match winning or match saving or was it both or was it just a mark and nothing more???

What about Bob Murray's grab in the 66 GF???

Match winning I would think. I dont see what that has to do with Max though.

Well in your opinion you said Max's ability to limit golakickers from their normal potency should be considered as 'matchsaving'

But now you are saying that a defender taking a grab in front of a forward therefore limiting him from his normal potentcy is match winning

[plugger66]

Probably more match saving IMO.

Was Leo Barry's mark in the 05 Grand Final match winning or match saving or was it both or was it just a mark and nothing more???

What about Bob Murray's grab in the 66 GF???

Match winning I would think. I dont see what that has to do with Max though.

Well in your opinion you said Max's ability to limit golakickers from their normal potency should be considered as 'matchsaving'

But now you are saying that a defender taking a grab in front of a forward therefore limiting him from his normal potentcy is match winning

You picked one mark on the FB line near the end of a GF. I am talking about the whole game and how Max plays. They are totally different.

[saintsRrising]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/member.php?u=44799

im assuming you are the same guy

Yep..same one.

Note how he bags SS over there

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415416

Also stated there that he is NOT a Saints fan...but here it is all "we"...

I'm Unlisted because I don't 'barrack' for a particular club. I follow footy. I watch plenty of it on TV, and attend at least one game each week. I even try to get down to watch various clubs train from time to time.


As a neutral footy fan, I tend to find that the NFI factor really strongly comes into it when you strongly follow one club. Not vice versa.

All this from a poster that freely calls others liars.


Is there anything lower than denying that you barrack for St Kilda?

[Milton66]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/member.php?u=44799

im assuming you are the same guy

Yep..same one.

Note how he bags SS over there

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415416

Also stated there that he is NOT a Saints fan...but here it is all "we"...

I'm Unlisted because I don't 'barrack' for a particular club. I follow footy. I watch plenty of it on TV, and attend at least one game each week. I even try to get down to watch various clubs train from time to time.


As a neutral footy fan, I tend to find that the NFI factor really strongly comes into it when you strongly follow one club. Not vice versa.

All this from a poster that freely calls others liars.


Is there anything lower than denying that you barrack for St Kilda?

Pretty amazing how he flies in from Mexico every week to catch a game.

[saintsRrising]

Pretty amazing how he flies in from Mexico every week to catch a game.

Yes...particularly as he also jets in to watch club's just train as well.


What TV station in Mexico shows AFL regularly????

[saint75]

Why not just ban this member?

Contrary to popular opinion, there is no such thing as free speech here in Australia (as those of you familiar with the Australian Constitution will know).

In response to their thread on big footy, the administrator of this forum has the right to ban any member he/she/they feel have crossed a line. As admin is legally liable for items posted on this board (and not to forget who pays the bills), they have a responsibility to look after their own interests. You don't like someone being banned, go start your own forum!

[Devilhead]

You picked one mark on the FB line near the end of a GF. I am talking about the whole game and how Max plays. They are totally different.

So if it is one particular instance it is matchwinning but if it is numerous instances over a period of time it becomes matchsaving

Yeah makes a lot of sense

[plugger66]

You picked one mark on the FB line near the end of a GF. I am talking about the whole game and how Max plays. They are totally different.

So if it is one particular instance it is matchwinning but if it is numerous instances over a period of time it becomes matchsaving

Yeah makes a lot of sense

I am not sure if you ever see Max play but he stops players. Maybe the best stopper in the business but he doesnt run and carry. Matter of fact he is left free by other clubs as they want him to get the ball so that is why I class him as a match saver not a match winner.

[bergholt]

I am not sure if you ever see Max play but he stops players. Maybe the best stopper in the business but he doesnt run and carry. Matter of fact he is left free by other clubs as they want him to get the ball so that is why I class him as a match saver not a match winner.

agreed.

[Violent Stool]

Why not just ban this member?

Contrary to popular opinion, there is no such thing as free speech here in Australia (as those of you familiar with the Australian Constitution will know).

In response to their thread on big footy, the administrator of this forum has the right to ban any member he/she/they feel have crossed a line. As admin is legally liable for items posted on this board (and not to forget who pays the bills), they have a responsibility to look after their own interests. You don't like someone being banned, go start your own forum!

Free speech??

I've never bagged this forum. I enjoy - it's a great read. I just don't get to post as much as I'd like.

From memory I actually wrote on BigFooty "Great site and well moderated is Saintsational, rarely post there but always good for a read."

Not sure how that can be construed as 'bagging this site'??

[Devilhead]

You picked one mark on the FB line near the end of a GF. I am talking about the whole game and how Max plays. They are totally different.

So if it is one particular instance it is matchwinning but if it is numerous instances over a period of time it becomes matchsaving

Yeah makes a lot of sense

I am not sure if you ever see Max play but he stops players. Maybe the best stopper in the business but he doesnt run and carry. Matter of fact he is left free by other clubs as they want him to get the ball so that is why I class him as a match saver not a match winner.

A match winner and a match saver are the same thing

If you win the match from a kick after the siren then you saved your team from losing - not only are you a match winner but a match saver as well - same goes if you take a mark deep in defence when you are 3 points up with 10 secs on the clock

They are one in the same

I guess we will agree to disagree

[Milton66]

If you kick a goal and put your team in front then you're a match winner.

Or you're a mid who has 20 touches in 1 quater which helps your team regain the lead and win, then you're definitely a match winner.

Unless of course your inside 50's all go to the FF who kicks 6 goals for the quarter... then he's the match winner, and you get 3 Brownlow votes.

If you take a mark or smother a kick to stop the opp from scoring and you win, then you're a match saver.

Then there's Fev who's just a tool.

Then again, if you're only 3 points up and kick a goal to put the result beyond doubt, then you're a winning match saver. Or was that a match saving winner?

Sh1t, not I'm confused.