McEVOY has a long way to go...

[hotdish]

His ruckwork was poor.

Around the ground he was good; took a few good marks (safe, one grab hands) and his disposal was good.

[rexy]

I thought he was OK, puts his body in good positions at the ball ups around the ground and is trying to palm th ball to position and not just hit it anywhere. Moves OK and chases well, remember him chasing a mid, maybe Murphy for a good 60 meters late in the game. Marking and kicking both seem solid. Think he will be a good ruckman and am happy with his progress.

What I love is the contrast in opinion, some are unhappy that he is not yet equal to Cox and some want to give him 3 or 4 years to hit his straps??

Big Macs ambition I hope would be to make selection hard for the second ruck spot by years end, next year it needs to be his from round 1 and by seasons end he should be looking to be the number 1 ruck wit Stanley preassuring the number 2 spot.

[Sobraz]

First quarter was excellent, then he just stopped... Confidence?.. Fitness?.. Luck?... who knows....

[Hurricane]

It was only his third game FFS give the kid a break.

Most ruckmen hit their peak at 25 McEvoy is only 19. Blokes like Kruezer can play straight away and be super but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I would expect some learning curve at this stage of his development and he is only in the side because King is suspended. Give him the next 3 weeks to build his confidance and find his feet at AFL level and he should be fine

BANG BANG

[duckduckduckgoose]

Lost his feet and went to ground far too often and easily last night.
He's a much better prospect than Brooks, so im not too concerned though.

Good thing for us that Michael Gardiner had a blinder last night- best game for the club i think.
Hitouts- Gardy 38
Ben 7

[SainterK]

Having Gardiner out there, just makes me more relaxed. The BFG certainly goes beyond his rucking duties, and is very handy around the ground.

[Foz]

I think Big Mac will have 2009 as a learning year. The positives are he is usually effective with possession and he was quite good with his reflexes (1st quarter pack example)

The downside is fitness and mobility and the ability to have 2nd, 3rd efforts - he looks gone after 1 at present. Not going strongly at the ball rather than opponent is a confidence thing.

We should be hoping for a Gilbo type breakout over summer - not as dramatic given his ruck role, but nevertheless his 2nd full pre-season should give things a kick along. I'd leave him in for the Richmond game and hope he does well.

[3rd generation saint]

Would you let McEvoy run around with Sandringham next week or give him the week off?
Positive, get's more practice.
Negative, get's injured.
Believe he should stay in the side and play against Richmond as it will give him even more game time which he will definetly need for the following game against Geelong.

[Moccha]

It was only his third game FFS give the kid a break.

Most ruckmen hit their peak at 25 McEvoy is only 19. Blokes like Kruezer can play straight away and be super but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I would expect some learning curve at this stage of his development and he is only in the side because King is suspended. Give him the next 3 weeks to build his confidance and find his feet at AFL level and he should be fine

BANG BANG

The fact of the matter is that he's too slow and that won't improve with experience. He also doesn't put himself into the contest, that MAY improve. I don't see any signs yet. Doesn't get to the right position, doesn't present and not aggressive enough

[Hurricane]

It was only his third game FFS give the kid a break.

Most ruckmen hit their peak at 25 McEvoy is only 19. Blokes like Kruezer can play straight away and be super but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I would expect some learning curve at this stage of his development and he is only in the side because King is suspended. Give him the next 3 weeks to build his confidance and find his feet at AFL level and he should be fine

BANG BANG

The fact of the matter is that he's too slow and that won't improve with experience. He also doesn't put himself into the contest, that MAY improve. I don't see any signs yet. Doesn't get to the right position, doesn't present and not aggressive enough

So dump him after 3 games?

When Ruckmen take till their mid 20's to develop? That's bit tough on the boy me thinks, give him more than 3 games before you decide he is usless

BANG BANG

[Moccha]

It was only his third game FFS give the kid a break.

Most ruckmen hit their peak at 25 McEvoy is only 19. Blokes like Kruezer can play straight away and be super but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I would expect some learning curve at this stage of his development and he is only in the side because King is suspended. Give him the next 3 weeks to build his confidance and find his feet at AFL level and he should be fine

BANG BANG

The fact of the matter is that he's too slow and that won't improve with experience. He also doesn't put himself into the contest, that MAY improve. I don't see any signs yet. Doesn't get to the right position, doesn't present and not aggressive enough

So dump him after 3 games?

When Ruckmen take till their mid 20's to develop? That's bit tough on the boy me thinks, give him more than 3 games before you decide he is usless

BANG BANG

Did I say he was useless or are you making assumptions?

At this stage though he's not worthy of being in the team

[Hurricane]

It was only his third game FFS give the kid a break.

Most ruckmen hit their peak at 25 McEvoy is only 19. Blokes like Kruezer can play straight away and be super but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I would expect some learning curve at this stage of his development and he is only in the side because King is suspended. Give him the next 3 weeks to build his confidance and find his feet at AFL level and he should be fine

BANG BANG

The fact of the matter is that he's too slow and that won't improve with experience. He also doesn't put himself into the contest, that MAY improve. I don't see any signs yet. Doesn't get to the right position, doesn't present and not aggressive enough

So dump him after 3 games?

When Ruckmen take till their mid 20's to develop? That's bit tough on the boy me thinks, give him more than 3 games before you decide he is usless

BANG BANG

Did I say he was useless or are you making assumptions?

At this stage though he's not worthy of being in the team

So is he ACTUALLy worthy of being in the team or are YOU making assumptions?

Ok assuming he will be dropped who do you replace him with? Keep in mind that Blake and Kosi are not options cause Ross likes 2 pure ruckmen

Also exactly how do you give him enough game time and development time so he will be "worthy of being in the team" in a second rate comp like the VFL?

Seriously, give the kid a go for gods sake

BANG BANG

[WinnersOnly]

I dont think anyone wanted him dropped?

People were just expressing thier opinions on his performance!

Given he and KRUEZER were drafted in the same year and have had the same development time IMO McEVOY was a long way behind. That's not saying he wont make as I think he will !!!

[Hurricane]

Saying he "isnt worthy of being in the team" sends a pretty strong message IMHO

BANG BANG

[saintly_safes]

Hes only young & has a good set of hands my only criticism is he seems a bit slow & goes to ground too easily but with a bit more hard work he might get there

[saintbrat]

rd 12 2009
McEvoy 7 Possessions 100% efficency
Kreuzer 16 possesions 63% efficiency

do stats help or hinder the debate- Games played-

Mc Evoy 4 games 3 in 2009 0 goals Born 1989
Kruezer 32 games 12 in 2009 19 goals Born 1989

experience due to necessity for Kruezer
athough both similiar height and weight are differant builds

[bobmurray]

rd 12 2009
McEvoy 7 Possessions 100% efficency
Kreuzer 16 possesions 63% efficiency

do stats help or hidner the debate- Games played-

Mc Evoy 4 games 3 in 2009 0 goals Born 1989
Kruezer 32 games 12 in 2009 19 goals Born 1989

experience due to necessity for Kruezer
athough both similiar height and weight are differant builds

And rated and picked differently in the draft.....

Kruezer was rated the better ruckman and he has so far proven to be..

The challenge is McEvoy's...he may never bridge the gap...

[Spinner]

Gees KRUEZER gave him a mega touch up tonight. McEVOY didn't look like getting his hands on the ball. He even looked a bit timid in the rucking duels and didn't fight hard enough for that winning position.

Hopefully he learns from this and finds that bit extra next time around...

Having only played 3 games most people would suggest he has a long way to go.

[sunsaint]

No one is calling McEvoy a hack, but this game was the grudge match we have been waiting for and I have no doubt both of the antagonists involved would have been doing their utmost to gain first bragging rights.
The fact is they were both the best ruckman in the country in the same draft, that spent their junior days playing against each other, and with Ben our No1 pick.
People talk about a 30 game head start to Kruezer, I dont see it that way, he has been playing football, and learning under two of the "better" ruckmen this game has seen. If the situation was reversed and Kruezer was third in line behind King and MG at the Saints, you would assume Kruezer would be carving up the two's. Not really hearing that with Ben, and now many people are talking up Stanley going ahead of him.

There were bits of his game last night that were good, his chase and takle early was a highlight, but I would assume HE wouldnt be happy with the outcome, and I dont think Lyon was either.

I believe that when a club gets to a postion to where the Saints have been for the last five years you are not so much about adding depth, but adding talent. I maintain that if you do not add to the list the likes of ONE Kruezer or Rich per draft then the list gets a little stagnant, and when I read the draft report McEvoy had me excited...
"McEvoy is a strong marking ruckman/key forward who is a good goalkicker. McEvoy averaged seven marks per game in NAB AFL U18 Championships, winning him All-Australian honours. He is touted as an agile player with great endurance, he is also an AIS/AFL Academy graduate. McEvoy Capped off a fine year by winning the Murray Bushrangers best and fairest award for season 2007."

[plugger66]

No one is calling McEvoy a hack, but this game was the grudge match we have been waiting for and I have no doubt both of the antagonists involved would have been doing their utmost to gain first bragging rights.
The fact is they were both the best ruckman in the country in the same draft, that spent their junior days playing against each other, and with Ben our No1 pick.
People talk about a 30 game head start to Kruezer, I dont see it that way, he has been playing football, and learning under two of the "better" ruckmen this game has seen. If the situation was reversed and Kruezer was third in line behind King and MG at the Saints, you would assume Kruezer would be carving up the two's. Not really hearing that with Ben, and now many people are talking up Stanley going ahead of him.

There were bits of his game last night that were good, his chase and takle early was a highlight, but I would assume HE wouldnt be happy with the outcome, and I dont think Lyon was either.

I believe that when a club gets to a postion to where the Saints have been for the last five years you are not so much about adding depth, but adding talent. I maintain that if you do not add to the list the likes of ONE Kruezer or Rich per draft then the list gets a little stagnant, and when I read the draft report McEvoy had me excited...
"McEvoy is a strong marking ruckman/key forward who is a good goalkicker. McEvoy averaged seven marks per game in NAB AFL U18 Championships, winning him All-Australian honours. He is touted as an agile player with great endurance, he is also an AIS/AFL Academy graduate. McEvoy Capped off a fine year by winning the Murray Bushrangers best and fairest award for season 2007."

Had big Cox even played a game at bens age. Ruckman come on differently. Kruezer is more a ruck rover type so he is coming along quicker. lets not panic to at least this time next year.

[cwrcyn]

The biggest concern about McEvoy is that he has no spring. He just doesn't get off the ground. If there is no improvement in this area, then he will always be troubled by athletic types who can really jump (like Kreuzer).

However, he seemed pretty sharp with his hands in heavy traffic, and doesn't panic when he gets the football.

It's very early days, so there's little to panic about. Patrick Dangerfield went the pick after him in the draft and he's an absolute star in the making. Let's pray that McEvoy will at least be a solid rucman for a long period. Darren Jolly took a hell of a long time to get going, and he's been really good for Sydney in recent years. Also, Hamish McIntosh was considered a better talent but really didn't show anything until he was 21 or 22.

I intend to be patient with McEvoy, even though I thought there were 5 payers we should have picked before him in the draft.

[sunsaint]

Had big Cox even played a game at bens age. Ruckman come on differently. Kruezer is more a ruck rover type so he is coming along quicker. lets not panic to at least this time next year.

a ruckrover type? I think you are getting the old label of a ruckrover confused with a ruckman who can do it all. He is 200cm the same as Gardiner so this year...
2009 Stats for Season 2009
Kruezer vs Grdiner
12 Games 11
61 Kicks 51
104 Handballs 61
165 Disposals 112
38 Marks 46
6 Goals 8
7 Behinds 3
41 Tackles 3
213 Hitouts 210
24 Inside 50s 13
6 Goal Assists 1
12 Goals Contributed 9
17 Frees For 13
7 Frees Against 6

[plugger66]

Had big Cox even played a game at bens age. Ruckman come on differently. Kruezer is more a ruck rover type so he is coming along quicker. lets not panic to at least this time next year.

a ruckrover type? I think you are getting the old label of a ruckrover confused with a ruckman who can do it all. He is 200cm the same as Gardiner so this year...
2009 Stats for Season 2009
Kruezer vs Grdiner
12 Games 11
61 Kicks 51
104 Handballs 61
165 Disposals 112
38 Marks 46
6 Goals 8
7 Behinds 3
41 Tackles 3
213 Hitouts 210
24 Inside 50s 13
6 Goal Assists 1
12 Goals Contributed 9
17 Frees For 13
7 Frees Against 6

My point was he plays as a ruck rover type of player. I never said he couldnt win hitouts. The point also is ruckman come on differently. You didnt bother about the Cox comparison. Just give Ben a go as he is more your old fashioned type ruckman and they take time.

[bobmurray]

StKilda doesn't have any recent history of developing ruckmen so the
outcome of Ben's development is unknown.And on what we've seen so far ,improvement is needed in more than one area....

Hope he starts taking some marks soon,that will improve his value to the team....

[saint66au]

Oh FFS!!!!!!!

Hes 19 years old, a big ruckman, and has played FOUR GAMES OF AFL FOOTY!!!

Sorry he hasnt polled any Brownlow votes yet..best we delist him eh??

Kreuzer was the best 18 y/o in the country at draft time...not just the best ruckman..and a lot of judges had him the best by a fair way. Unlike 2008 Kruezer was always gonna be Pick 1 from a fair way back.

Fair dinkum, no wonder some of our supporters get off on sledging our own during games. We win by less than 10 goals? Whinge? Any of our mids get less than 25 touches? Whinge. A player in his fourth game doesnt dominate? Whinge.