Why Carlton won't succeed

White Winmar · Wed 10 Jun 2009 6:57pm

The best thing about Carlton's predicament over the past decade is that the cheating narcissists who barrack for it and run it believe success will come automatically. Like all narcissists, they are misguided and deluded. When things don't work out for them, they blame or abuse others. The bad news for Carlton is that they have been relegated to the level playing field the rest of us have inhabited for so long.

They cannot "buy" their way out of trouble anymore. They cannot cheat and rort the system with the certainty of previous years. No, they're stuck with the rest of us. Other clubs have developed "cultures" that suit the environment of the past 20 years. They have some chance of success on a cyclical basis (Richmond excluded).

Carlton, on the other hand, has fallen back on its reputation for arrogance and so-called "superiority". It has brought back into the fold, all the filthy cheats who brought them what they considered "success" in the past.

Fraser" the tax cheat" Brown (Nice temper, with a propensity for hitting women too). The most over rated human being I've ever come across in "Sticks" Kernahan. Next time that fool opens his mouth, have a good listen to what comes out. No wonder he avoids media interviews. Remember his great contribution to oratory? "We're Carlton and f**k the rest." Great Centre Half Forward - useless football administrator.

Then there was the late, not so great Dick Pratt. Another filthy cheat who exploited the masses for his personal gain. So he gave some of it away to the arts and charities. So he should have. His generosity was largely a PR stunt to deflect us away from the real truth about him. Has anyone ever been more appropriately named? Dick as in penis, pratt, the English slang term for one who is a fool or speaks in foolish and inconsequential ways. That's not to mention all the shady back room boys who fund and help run the place.

The reason they haven't been able to capitalise on their own failures, is that as a club, they are not used to doing the things that bring success in the modern game. Things such as long term player development, openness and transparency in processes, both internally and externally, recruiting techniques that exploit untapped niches in the talent pool and not simply relying on early picks.

The joy for me as a saints supporter is seeing these tossers delude themselves into thinking they are already a serious challenger and that success is inevitable. They're 6-5 for god's sake! If you listen to the crap dribbling out of Princes, Optus, Visy et. etc.. park, you'd think the premiership race was already over.

They're coming all right, but as I've mentioned on this forum before, it's only a wet dream. Long may Carlton struggle in the middle to lower rungs. It couldn't happen to a bigger bunch of you know what's! Bring on Friday night for a dose of reality.

The Fireman · Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:06pm

Cheats never prosper?

plugger66 · Post: # 755402Post **plugger66** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:08pm

The Fireman wrote:Cheats never prosper?

Yes they do but as much as it seems everyone hates Carlton here they did win 14 flags before they cheated. I wish we could be half as good. Actually I dont care how many we have won as long as we win this year.

BakesFan · Post: # 755404Post **BakesFan** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:14pm

Tell us how you really feel, W.W...............but seriously; that was a faultless post.

ytw · Post: # 755406Post **ytw** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:18pm

that would have to be one of the most stupid and pointless posts i have ever read on this forum in the past 3 years

desertsaint · Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:22pm

post it where it belongs...the carlton forum!

3rd generation saint · Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:23pm

Actually I wouldn't have said wet dream, I would have said their wanking themselves.

White Winmar · Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:25pm

That's a fair call Plugger66. My premiership envy is showing, however I would make the point that they've cheated their way to at least 2 flags, not to mention finals series and many home and away wins. When I see how desperate we are to see our team win just one flag, the thought of them cheating their way to two makes me even angrier. Still, I feel better for having got that off my chest. The fact that they carry on about how great their club is when all they've achieved in the past 27 years has been on the back of their cheating ways, well you know.......I'll stop now. I just realised they're not worth it. Go Sainters!

3rd generation saint · Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:29pm

The fact that they tanked so that they could get Kreuzer and Judd show's they are still cheating.
However, I do feel that getting Judd may trun out to be more a handicap than a godsend to them in the future when they try too squeeze all these players into the salary cap.

White Winmar · Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:30pm

I would've thought the fact we're playing them this week and the airwaves and print media are already full of their pro-Carlton crap, made it somewhat relevant. Just an opinion. Like yours. I'll give you the Pauline Hanson, "Please explain". I accept your opinion. A little explanation to support such a grand statement would be appreciated. "The most pointless in 3 years"! Now that demands some elaboration! ytw, unless you're a ...........troll!

doristhesaint · Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:44pm

Had great pleasure in showing my carlton supporting girlfreind this post.

As long as we win friday otherwise it could be a long weekend

plugger66 · Post: # 755438Post **plugger66** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 8:27pm

3rd generation saint wrote:The fact that they tanked so that they could get Kreuzer and Judd show's they are still cheating.
However, I do feel that getting Judd may trun out to be more a handicap than a godsend to them in the future when they try too squeeze all these players into the salary cap.

I dont understand why sending people for operations is cheating. Never understood that. The main reason they send them is because they arent good enough to win and they couldnt win with the players they had so they try others. Every club down the bottom has just about done it. If we were in their situation I would expect us to do it as well.

St Michele · Post: # 755454Post **St Michele** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 8:42pm

They won;t suceed for one reason and one reason only, 2 of my sisters and nieces barrack for them ( only one niece has any sense and is a sainter) and I do not want to put up with the crap from them till the next time we play them

Works for me anyway

Michele

Milton66 · Post: # 755461Post **Milton66** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 8:47pm

Yep, and how many of those flags did they win as part of the AFL?

IIRC, most if not all came from the days when you could buy any player you want, and could nominate your recruiting zones.

Richter · Post: # 755468Post **Richter** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 8:52pm

Post of the Year, White Winmar!

Solar · Post: # 755473Post **Solar** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 8:56pm

3rd generation saint wrote:The fact that they tanked so that they could get Kreuzer and Judd show's they are still cheating.
However, I do feel that getting Judd may trun out to be more a handicap than a godsend to them in the future when they try too squeeze all these players into the salary cap.

they will be fine as long as visy pays for most of judd's salary.... environmental ambassador??? MY arse!

White Winmar · Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:04pm

Yes Solar, how does Juddy find the time to play football when he has to spend so much time saving the world on behalf of Visy. Another rort? Surely not!

JEANLUCPICARD · Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:07pm

plugger66 wrote:
The Fireman wrote:Cheats never prosper?
Yes they do but as much as it seems everyone hates Carlton here they did win 14 flags before they cheated. I wish we could be half as good. Actually I dont care how many we have won as long as we win this year.

IN a piddly victorian only competition.

They won't win 14 flags in the next 100 years of national.

Discount all flags prior to the weagles joining the league.

plugger66 · Post: # 755484Post **plugger66** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:08pm

White Winmar wrote:Yes Solar, how does Juddy find the time to play football when he has to spend so much time saving the world on behalf of Visy. Another rort? Surely not!

So you think that a club which was fined so much they nearly went out of business and had many draft picks taken off them over 2 years by the AFL would get away with just pretending to have Juddy work for Visy. Have a feeling the AFL would be checking this very carefully.

White Winmar · Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:32pm

Would he really be "earning" the money that is allocated to his Visy work in his contract, Plugger66? I agree, the AFL would monitor it. In fact I believe they have to sign off on contracts where player's work in some official or significant capacity for their clubs. I can't help feeling though, that there is plenty of room to rort the system. Juddy is highly qualified to speak on all matters pertaining to the environment, paper manufacturing etc. etc.........Now I'm being sarcastic, a bit like yourself in that last post plugger66.

Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:34pm

If Judd works for Visy as an environmental consultant / ambassador during the day ... when does he train as Carlton train every day at Visy Park .. or does that count? Or perhaps it counts when he is sitting having a chat to his midfiled group at Babble Cafe in Prahran? I think not.

plugger66 · Post: # 755501Post **plugger66** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:41pm

White Winmar wrote:Would he really be "earning" the money that is allocated to his Visy work in his contract, Plugger66? I agree, the AFL would monitor it. In fact I believe they have to sign off on contracts where player's work in some official or significant capacity for their clubs. I can't help feeling though, that there is plenty of room to rort the system. Juddy is highly qualified to speak on all matters pertaining to the environment, paper manufacturing etc. etc.........Now I'm being sarcastic, a bit like yourself in that last post plugger66.

For a change I wasnt being sarcastic. Do we know what qualifications Judd has. Comes across as a person who would have done plenty of studying. As for the post when does he train. Pretty sure he wouldnt work anywhere near full time so he would have plenty of time to train. Most players at the Saints either have a job or do schooling. Any system can be rorted but surely that everyone knows Judd works for Visy actually makes it harder to rort as the AFL can access his payment from visy.

Solar · Post: # 755502Post **Solar** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:46pm

plugger66 wrote:
White Winmar wrote:Yes Solar, how does Juddy find the time to play football when he has to spend so much time saving the world on behalf of Visy. Another rort? Surely not!
So you think that a club which was fined so much they nearly went out of business and had many draft picks taken off them over 2 years by the AFL would get away with just pretending to have Juddy work for Visy. Have a feeling the AFL would be checking this very carefully.

he goes in once a week, tey are not the only one doing this type of things but one of the few that used it to recruit someone. AFL have made a rod fo their own back and the biggest problem is that it's not an "outcome" position an thus it's hard to pin down.

But thanks for the AFL reply plugger

Mr Magic · Post: # 755503Post **Mr Magic** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:47pm

Not to minimize the 'bag the scum' thread, but all CLubs find ways to 'get around' the salary cap and pay some players extra.

It just so happens that the late benefactor of Carlscum had deeper pockets than most aother Clubs have access to.

Every Club (including our own) has found a way to legally bend the rules.

The wet cokers were doing some mining share system.
The tiggers had some land deals going on with Clinton Casey
The scum used to set their players up in businesses in the 90's - anybody had some printing done by Diesel?
The Demons were offering use of skis, gloves, goggles and lodges to players.
Seriously, the Demons and Bombers were probably as bad as Carlscum in cheating teh Salary Cap in teh 90's. Have they stopped, or just found a better way of doing it?

The truth is that if Lindsay Fox had thrown his money behind the Saints in a similar way to Pratt, would we be complaining about it?

Solar · Post: # 755504Post **Solar** » Wed 10 Jun 2009 9:50pm

plugger66 wrote:
White Winmar wrote:Would he really be "earning" the money that is allocated to his Visy work in his contract, Plugger66? I agree, the AFL would monitor it. In fact I believe they have to sign off on contracts where player's work in some official or significant capacity for their clubs. I can't help feeling though, that there is plenty of room to rort the system. Juddy is highly qualified to speak on all matters pertaining to the environment, paper manufacturing etc. etc.........Now I'm being sarcastic, a bit like yourself in that last post plugger66.
For a change I wasnt being sarcastic. Do we know what qualifications Judd has. Comes across as a person who would have done plenty of studying. As for the post when does he train. Pretty sure he wouldnt work anywhere near full time so he would have plenty of time to train. Most players at the Saints either have a job or do schooling. Any system can be rorted but surely that everyone knows Judd works for Visy actually makes it harder to rort as the AFL can access his payment from visy.

btw this is the company who actually rorted the system

I live in fairy land where the AFL is perfect and no-one tries to screw the system ..... anyone want fairy bread

(btw anyone enjoying the soccer... sorry had to post that for you plugger, I know how you like to widen your horizons....)