Gram thing is weird...

[stinger]

Congratulations to the Herald Sun's Mark Stevens for an informative and accurate article which addressed something that I felt was going to be overlooked this week.

One of the best sports journalists in this city. Clearly, the club isn't going to give anything away, nor is Nixon, but my sources tell me he's hit the nail on the head.

except he has two different stories in two different editions ...one contradicting the other ......

this is from his other article


"JASON Gram was not a naughty boy off-field, but it is understood his on-field performances are a concern at St Kilda.
It is believed form, as much as injury, was the reason Gram played in the VFL on Sunday.

St Kilda is adamant Gram was left out because of thigh soreness, which improved enough later in the week for him to play for Sandringham.

A source confirmed there was "nothing sinister" in his omission and he had not broken a club discipline, such as arriving late for training.

But for all of Gram's daring run this year, he has struggled to hit targets and it is understood the Saints have had concerns with his form."

[asiu]

i agree

if he wasn't dropped for his 'attitude' , he should of been

good

[SainterK]

He will be back this week, and I expect a good game from him actually. Sure he's pride may be a little hurt, but wake up calls are often neccessary.

[bigcarl]

One of the best sports journalists in this city.

agree.

coming on here (and presumably to some of the other boards) to see what the average mug football fan is talking about puts him ahead of many of his contempories.

it appears that sources might have given him different answers to the same questions yesterday, but at least he identified gram as a story of interest.

[evertonfc]

I just like the fact that Stevens has recognised it's the question the fans have wanted an answer too, but the club won't supply it.

He's recognised that, tried to find out, and given it a good shake. If he's figured it out on his own, brilliant. But if he's come on here to see what matters to the fans, and then decided to go a step further and act on our behalf to find out the truth, even better.

Good journalism. And nicely backed up with a load of stats that do seem a little concerning, even though I feel his style of play and swift ball movement through the middle is essential to our game.

[Milton66]

I've been worried about Gram all year, he is an absolute show pony, I regard him as a weak link, not for his ability but for his attitude.

He should spend more time practicing his disposal and foot skills, rather than worrying about the tips in his hair, his body language is awful and I have been saying all year that he needs an attitude adjustment.

I'm absolutely rapt that he got dropped and I hope he stays in the VFL for another 4 weeks to fair dinkum give him a wake up call.

I regard him as a very important player to us but if continued on like he was going then he'd become a weak link and a liability at the business end.

You will be disappointed when he plays this week and so he should. Got a weeks detention now back where we need him. In the ones. A vital player to the Saints line up as shown by him being out last week against Brisbane.

so will he have his lesson by only being out 1 one week?

seemed to work for Dal and Milne.

[ozrulestrace]

Just a thought and please don't turn this into a Physio vs Chiropractor argument.
Or become crude about Gram's girl working on his injury, but is it a possibility that Gram's girl being a chiropractor worked on the injury and that he was happy with that, or didn't want to partake in some physio treatment but went for chiropratic treatment instead and this may have caused some conflict?

[stinger]

according to the australian....


Unprofessional Saint was demoted


Stephen Rielly | May 26, 2009
Article from: The Australian

JASON Gram's surprising eleventh-hour appearance in the VFL on Sunday was a reminder that attention to detail is something that St Kilda coach Ross Lyon is decisive about.

Gram's unexpected appearance with the Saints' VFL affiliate, Sandringham, was the consequence of him missing a physiotherapy session earlier in the week, which the hierarchy decided was worth his place in the senior team.

While Gram finished the match against Essendon a week earlier with a corked left thigh which limited his preparation ahead of St Kilda's match against Brisbane on Sunday, he had been beaten in the match against the Dons by Andrew Lovett.

Concerned by his performance, Lyon and his staff were convinced it stemmed from his failure to meet a physiotherapy appointment and therefore it was time to remind the players of the professional standards they expect.

"His preparation wasn't as good as it should have been and as a result, at the end of the week, he wasn't in a position where we could pick him," St Kilda football manager Greg Hutchison said.

"We expect our players to prepare really well. We've got a very diligent group that way and if the preparation isn't to the required standard, then it's acceptable that they don't get picked."

While Gram's demotion, which was listed on Friday as a matter of injury, amounts to nothing like the statement Lyon made last year when he sent Nick Dal Santo and Stephen Milne back to the VFL, he has been one of St Kilda's most important players in recent seasons and a selection regular.

He played all 25 matches last season and finished top eight in the best and fairest count, an award in which he finished second in 2006.

It is understood that Gram's tardiness doubly disappointed the Saints because, with captain Nick Riewoldt, Justin Koschitzke and Leigh Montagna not certain to play against the Lions because of injury and illness, there was considerable doubt until Sunday about the final 22.

Had more than one of the three not been able to play, Gram might have been required. As it happened, they all did and on Sunday morning Sandringham was told that Gram would be in their colours. He gathered 19 touches.

[St Fidelius]

His kicking has been woeful this year, I do realise that he has had an injury interrupted pre season, but I read somewhere that his disposal effentency is about 20% down from last year.

That is really not good enough, and some of those have resulted in goals to the opposition in the past.

I just can't believe that having an injury interrupted pre season can result in a marked drop in his disposals effentency, unless he is still carrying some injury.

[saintbrat]

http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlaye ... chison.mp3

[bigcarl]

His kicking has been woeful this year, I do realise that he has had an injury interrupted pre season, but I read somewhere that his disposal effentency is about 20% down from last year.

That is really not good enough, and some of those have resulted in goals to the opposition in the past.

I just can't believe that having an injury interrupted pre season can result in a marked drop in his disposals effentency, unless he is still carrying some injury.

i think he's been busting a gut to get it in quickly to our big forwards (no doubt following a coaching directive) and might have gone a bit overboard with it.

which isn't to say that he should stop playing that way ... just deliver it a bit better a bit more often.

his good points outweigh the bad by quite a bit imo.

[St Fidelius]

His kicking has been woeful this year, I do realise that he has had an injury interrupted pre season, but I read somewhere that his disposal effentency is about 20% down from last year.

That is really not good enough, and some of those have resulted in goals to the opposition in the past.

I just can't believe that having an injury interrupted pre season can result in a marked drop in his disposals effentency, unless he is still carrying some injury.

i think he's been busting a gut to get it in quickly to our big forwards (no doubt following a coaching directive) and might have gone a bit overboard with it.

which isn't to say that he should stop playing that way ... just deliver it a bit better a bit more often.

his good points outweigh the bad by quite a bit imo.

Yeah agreed...

We missed the run a carry he provides last week against Brisbane

[BallBanger]

However inside 50's are not something that can be taken lightly, and he is a gun as far as they go....

He might be leading our inside 50 stats but given he is one of the worst kicks in the side it is a bit of a worry

Don't get me wrong his run and carry is top notch but I would love to know how many of his inside 50's are actually to advantage

So lets drop Ball/Riewoldt/Gardiner/R.Clarke/Blake/Jones

I think if you carry the ball 90m (run 50 and kick) you create a lot of chances even if you don't hit targets consistantly

Milne would be a champion if he was not selfish...imagine feeling comfortable with the ball in Milnes hands when we have the numbers ...instead of feelin' nervous knowing he will take them on and chance losing a certain goal...
Highly skilled who only brings himself down.

Why only gram

[saintspremiers]

I've been worried about Gram all year, he is an absolute show pony, I regard him as a weak link, not for his ability but for his attitude.

He should spend more time practicing his disposal and foot skills, rather than worrying about the tips in his hair, his body language is awful and I have been saying all year that he needs an attitude adjustment.

I'm absolutely rapt that he got dropped and I hope he stays in the VFL for another 4 weeks to fair dinkum give him a wake up call.

I regard him as a very important player to us but if continued on like he was going then he'd become a weak link and a liability at the business end.

You will be disappointed when he plays this week and so he should. Got a weeks detention now back where we need him. In the ones. A vital player to the Saints line up as shown by him being out last week against Brisbane.

so will he have his lesson by only being out 1 one week?

He missed one rehab session. I would think one week is more than enough and depending on his contract could also have cost him maybe 10 grand so yes I think he would have learnt his lesson.

I'm with you on this one plugger (for once!).

saintly - I'll answer your question with a question:

Last year, when Milne and Dal were dropped for only one game, did they learn their lesson??

[Teflon]

I was actually wrapt the club told the media squat - its in house and it stays there. Let them speculate till the next media storm in a tea cup brews....

I really liked Greg Hutchison basically telling dopey Dwayne to shove off...

[The Fireman]

how good would it be if the club just came out and let it's members know why they made some of their decisions?
Info like this should be made available to the members.

[Shaggy]

how good would it be if the club just came out and let it's members know why they made some of their decisions?
Info like this should be made available to the members.

No it shouldn't because it can be twisted and turned as anyone wants to see it .

Its obvious what the facts were. Make of it what you want. Doesn't mean the club is right but they made the decision at the time.

[Mr Magic]

how good would it be if the club just came out and let it's members know why they made some of their decisions?
Info like this should be made available to the members.

They already do that.
They let the media know what they want the outside world to know.
They don't let the media know what they don't want the outside world to know.

They determine what they want to be widely known.
They send the members a weekly update telling them what they want them to know.

So far this year we've had some really fascinating stuff shown during telecasts where the Club has been happy to let everybody know certain information.

The problem is that we want to know everything.
Who's playing
Who's playing on who
What the tactics are
Who's under an injury cloud

And how long would it be before this information is posted on Saintsational if they told the members?

If they tell us what we all want to know, then the opposition will know as well.

Maybe they feel there is an advantage in keeping certain information secret?
Or in this case, maybe they told the truth about Gram?

Other than media speculation, has anybody in the know actually confirmed the stories?

It would seem to me that the whole Gram story started on here with some poisters specualting what the situation with him playing at Sandy was.

The 'news scoops' on him didn't occur until at least 1 day later after 'journalists' obviously saw the references on here and went digging for a story.
So far wer've had a number of variations on the story from 'journos' who are all 'in the know'.
'He was dropped for discipline'
'He was dropped for poor form'
'He was dropped for poor form and discipline'

Which one of these 'scoops' is the accurate one?

Hutchy the Tosser's?
Mark Stevens?
The Australian?

I've got no idea what the truth is, and quite frankly I'd be surprised if any of the journalists did either. They've written their stories (no matter how accurate/inaccurate). Now they're on to their next one.

I notice that Jake King is threatening to sue Hutchy the Tosser after last week's 'true expose' named him as one of the kingpins in the Wallace media fiasco. Another lawsuit against him - Mr accuracy when it comes to reporting the news.

Mark Stevens will probably write another article based on a rumour from on here if he keeps up his current form. There's been at least 2 in the past week.

ANd I have to differ with some of teh opinions expressed by others on here about him showing great journalist skills.
IMHO he was just lazy relying on us.

Why didn't he notice that Tudor wasn't at the game aginst the Bummers and go and find out why?

Why didn't he know that Gram had played on Sunday at Sandringham? If it was such an interesting story why didn't he write someting for Monday morning's paper?

The answer in both cases is that he didn't know about it until he read about it on here.

You don't need to be a renowned investigative journalist to troll through fan websites and pick up tidbits of info.
ANybody with access to teh internet can do it.

end rant/

[Spinner]

Seriously, have the club ever heard of the 'late change'......Allowing a guy until 20 minutes for the game to pull out.

Who are they kidding - Gram was dropped. Everything else was a cover up.

If they were telling the truth they would have given him every chance to pull up for Sunday, even if they thought it was minimal on the friday.


Enough with the smoke and mirrors.

[evertonfc]

ANd I have to differ with some of teh opinions expressed by others on here about him showing great journalist skills.
IMHO he was just lazy relying on us.

Erm, people on here pondered why he was left out, he tried to find out.

And that's lazy? Poor form, Mr Magic.

Why didn't he notice that Tudor wasn't at the game aginst the Bummers and go and find out why?

Because I'm guessing he was in the Press Box and filing to deadline given that it was a late start?

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 72,00.html

Why didn't he know that Gram had played on Sunday at Sandringham? If it was such an interesting story why didn't he write someting for Monday morning's paper?

Was he working Sunday? Was he at another game? I don't know. And if he was covering the St Kilda game, wouldn't you rather he get that match report right?

I mean, fair dinkum, the lack of common sense is remarkable.

The bloke tries to follow up a story that we don't know the answer too, and then gets labelled as lazy.

Save for his mugshot, I don't know Mark Stevens from a bag of soap. But I sure hope he's reading this and having a belly-laugh.

Seriously, have the club ever heard of the 'late change'......Allowing a guy until 20 minutes for the game to pull out.

Who are they kidding - Gram was dropped. Everything else was a cover up.

If they were telling the truth they would have given him every chance to pull up for Sunday, even if they thought it was minimal on the friday.

Enough with the smoke and mirrors.

Thankfully, some common sense.

[Mr Magic]

ANd I have to differ with some of teh opinions expressed by others on here about him showing great journalist skills.
IMHO he was just lazy relying on us.

Erm, people on here pondered why he was left out, he tried to find out.

And that's lazy? Poor form, Mr Magic.

You have your opinion.
I have mine.

And just becasue I choose to categorize what this journalist did as lazy journalism you deem it necessary to label my characterization as 'poor form'?

I would have thought that 'labelling an opposite view' by a mod is more akin to 'poor form' than anything I raised in my opinion post.

[bigcarl]

you don't need to be a renowned investigative journalist to troll through fan websites and pick up tidbits of info. Anybody with access to the internet can do it.

it's a public forum so why shouldn't he? more importantly, why wouldn't he?

i give stevens credit for being curious enough to check out what the real fans are talking about, that is his bread and butter as a tabloid journalist.

[Mr Magic]

you don't need to be a renowned investigative journalist to troll through fan websites and pick up tidbits of info. Anybody with access to the internet can do it.

it's a public forum so why shouldn't he?

i give stevens credit for being curious enough to check out what the real fans are talking about, that is his bread and butter as a tabloid journalist.

I'm not suggesting he can't or shouldn't.
All I'm saying is that in the context of what the Club wants the general public to know (you know all the calls for the Club to be more open with the members) he is being lauded for his journalistic skills because he apparently found some Saints fans asking questions on a Saints forum about why Gram played the day before at Sandringham.

If it was such a good story how come he (and other journalists) weren't onto it Monday morning? Gram played at 2pm Sunday.

It only became a story after the thread appeared on here and eventually someone asked questions at the Club which elicited a response from Greg Hutchinson.

Exactly like the Tudor story. It wasn't a story until the thread appeared on here and a journalist (Mark Stevens) then ran with it.

Maybe we should just email him with our rumours so he doesn't need to bother to read this site?

But apparently that's good journalism, not lazy journalism.

What do we call journalists who recognize that Gram playing at 2pm on Sunday after supposedly being left out through injury is a story?
Is that 'super good journalism'?

The lauding of this type of trolling is why we get the garbage from the likes of Hutchy the Tosser. He actually 'broke' the Gram story on Footy Classified before the 'good journalism' article by Stevens.

I suppose we should laud Hutchy the Tosser as well?
Afterall, he managed to get the story out first - doesn't really matter if it was right or wrong, just as long as it was first.

[saintly]

I've been worried about Gram all year, he is an absolute show pony, I regard him as a weak link, not for his ability but for his attitude.

He should spend more time practicing his disposal and foot skills, rather than worrying about the tips in his hair, his body language is awful and I have been saying all year that he needs an attitude adjustment.

I'm absolutely rapt that he got dropped and I hope he stays in the VFL for another 4 weeks to fair dinkum give him a wake up call.

I regard him as a very important player to us but if continued on like he was going then he'd become a weak link and a liability at the business end.

You will be disappointed when he plays this week and so he should. Got a weeks detention now back where we need him. In the ones. A vital player to the Saints line up as shown by him being out last week against Brisbane.

so will he have his lesson by only being out 1 one week?

He missed one rehab session. I would think one week is more than enough and depending on his contract could also have cost him maybe 10 grand so yes I think he would have learnt his lesson.

I'm with you on this one plugger (for once!).

saintly - I'll answer your question with a question:

Last year, when Milne and Dal were dropped for only one game, did they learn their lesson??

they must have.

[bigcarl]

you can't blame these guys for trying to do their jobs. from his perspective it was an obvious story that hadn't been written.

i'd expect him to continue to be a regular reader of saintsational, particularly while we keep winning. let's not shoot the messenger.