I hadn't actually considered that he wasn't old enough to have a beer with.... and I should have...joffaboy wrote:Are you old enough to drink?Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:but i don't want to have a beer with youIceman234 wrote:Yes, but being a Brisbane-ite, hopefully you will actually see his worth live this week.
He has been a gun down back and deserves his spot every week.
Let's have a beer and discuss his success after he rips another scalp this week.
I would have a beer with this clown if I was you iceman.
Mabye you could watch a game of footy on tellie together and the einstein could tell you whats happening - cause he seems to know more about footy from tellie than the rest of us from actually attending a game.
Dawson Vs Carroll
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- Saints Premiers 2008
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thank you for calling me a kid...im also a cabbagejoffaboy wrote:What do you mean before he embarrasses himself.Iceman234 wrote: Your criticism of Zac is based on how many games you have seen him live? Cabbage!!!
FFS give it up before you completely embarrass yourself with your complete lack of knowledge of the game
The kid is clueless. But what do you expect from someone who hasn't even seen one single game in 2009
No effing idea apart from what a Tv screen shows him.
PMSL at this cabbage.
Pathetic and clueless to critisise a player everyone (well everyone who actually attends) can see is playing great football and smashing his direct opponents every single game.
If this cabbage had a complete view of the ground he would see that once the zone has been beaten the opposition has a clear run through the square and has to deliver long into the forward fifty. This is what the defensive setup demands. This means that the defense has to go man on man or give the defending back a chopout.
So much for the airchair experts critic on how the ball gets down to our backline
But hey only so much you can see on tellie
so because i go against the grain that makes me clueless???
or because you believe you have an idea of the game that makes you that little bit more switched on at this caper than i??
its all zac's doing...sorry...
"It's a work in progress," Lyon said.
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its okay im actually 15Iceman234 wrote:I hadn't actually considered that he wasn't old enough to have a beer with.... and I should have...joffaboy wrote:Are you old enough to drink?Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:but i don't want to have a beer with youIceman234 wrote:Yes, but being a Brisbane-ite, hopefully you will actually see his worth live this week.
He has been a gun down back and deserves his spot every week.
Let's have a beer and discuss his success after he rips another scalp this week.
I would have a beer with this clown if I was you iceman.
Mabye you could watch a game of footy on tellie together and the einstein could tell you whats happening - cause he seems to know more about footy from tellie than the rest of us from actually attending a game.
however when i get mature and me grows up i still won't have a beer with you
u'z are gaybos
"It's a work in progress," Lyon said.
good to see you realising itSaints Premiers 2008 wrote: thank you for calling me a kid...im also a cabbage
No you are clueless because you have no clue what you are on about.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:so because i go against the grain that makes me clueless???
Add thick to cabbage and kid. It is because - as I have said repeatedly - you get a better appreciation of how football is actually played when you actually see it live.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:or because you believe you have an idea of the game that makes you that little bit more switched on at this caper than i??
Get mummy or daddy to take you to the game on Saturday night and you will get a little bit of understanding of the Saints gameplan and how it works.
Sheesh
the miserly defence is part of zac's doing.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:its all zac's doing...sorry...
get to a game and see for yourself.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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We are 9 zip.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:its okay im actually 15Iceman234 wrote:I hadn't actually considered that he wasn't old enough to have a beer with.... and I should have...joffaboy wrote:Are you old enough to drink?Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:but i don't want to have a beer with youIceman234 wrote:Yes, but being a Brisbane-ite, hopefully you will actually see his worth live this week.
He has been a gun down back and deserves his spot every week.
Let's have a beer and discuss his success after he rips another scalp this week.
I would have a beer with this clown if I was you iceman.
Mabye you could watch a game of footy on tellie together and the einstein could tell you whats happening - cause he seems to know more about footy from tellie than the rest of us from actually attending a game.
however when i get mature and me grows up i still won't have a beer with you
u'z are gaybos
Go and have a beer with Iceman234 and enjoy yourself. I know nothing about you except your big, 20's and live in Brisbane based on posts. Iceman234 I believe is a family man but not certain.
Why not enjoy 10 zip together? We are all Saints supporters .
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Um just ignored a bunch of the bickering above but a really good thread.
Clearly an inspired pick and Dawson is AFL quality. Would guarentee that if he was still at the hawks would have played nearly all if not all games this year with the loss of Gilham Birchall and Croad (way better than Murphy for example).
His mobility and ability to attack the game on has been excellent and compliments Fisher and Gilbert fantastically. Max will make it back at some stage but I would suspect not at Dawson's expense. More likely schenario is that Fisher is pushed up the ground (but why do that unless you have to try something in the coaches box cos things not going your way) or more likely that Gilbert pushed up to a wing or half forward at the possible expense of Gwilt.
Well done Zac. Along with Ray have helped address a clearly definicent 'bottom 6' issue that we had last year.
Clearly an inspired pick and Dawson is AFL quality. Would guarentee that if he was still at the hawks would have played nearly all if not all games this year with the loss of Gilham Birchall and Croad (way better than Murphy for example).
His mobility and ability to attack the game on has been excellent and compliments Fisher and Gilbert fantastically. Max will make it back at some stage but I would suspect not at Dawson's expense. More likely schenario is that Fisher is pushed up the ground (but why do that unless you have to try something in the coaches box cos things not going your way) or more likely that Gilbert pushed up to a wing or half forward at the possible expense of Gwilt.
Well done Zac. Along with Ray have helped address a clearly definicent 'bottom 6' issue that we had last year.
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Here's a question for those wanting Max straight in. Apart from stopping the full forward from kicking goals,what else does Max offer?
I love Max's stopping abilitities,but right now as I see it,I'd have Zac in the side over Max. Dawson is better in the air,a better decision maker,and better by foot,only marginally in all those areas,but better none the less.Max is the best spoiler I've ever seen,but dawson isn't a muppet in this area either.
He might get a few hidings or drop off form in coming weeks and this might all change. However at this stage,stuff Max,he can wait
I love Max's stopping abilitities,but right now as I see it,I'd have Zac in the side over Max. Dawson is better in the air,a better decision maker,and better by foot,only marginally in all those areas,but better none the less.Max is the best spoiler I've ever seen,but dawson isn't a muppet in this area either.
He might get a few hidings or drop off form in coming weeks and this might all change. However at this stage,stuff Max,he can wait
Bring back the Lockett era
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Jonsey good call and that is why we are in no rush to rush Max in.
What Max can do is play on smaller forwards as well and can run off his man OK although his foot skills are not as good as some. Raph Goddard and Gilbert are three of the best 'utilities' in the comp and adding Max gives us another Dimension. Question is why drop someone when you are 9 zip?!
What Max can do is play on smaller forwards as well and can run off his man OK although his foot skills are not as good as some. Raph Goddard and Gilbert are three of the best 'utilities' in the comp and adding Max gives us another Dimension. Question is why drop someone when you are 9 zip?!
He's a cabbage patch kid....Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:thank you for calling me a kid...im also a cabbagejoffaboy wrote:What do you mean before he embarrasses himself.Iceman234 wrote: Your criticism of Zac is based on how many games you have seen him live? Cabbage!!!
FFS give it up before you completely embarrass yourself with your complete lack of knowledge of the game
The kid is clueless. But what do you expect from someone who hasn't even seen one single game in 2009
No effing idea apart from what a Tv screen shows him.
PMSL at this cabbage.
Pathetic and clueless to critisise a player everyone (well everyone who actually attends) can see is playing great football and smashing his direct opponents every single game.
If this cabbage had a complete view of the ground he would see that once the zone has been beaten the opposition has a clear run through the square and has to deliver long into the forward fifty. This is what the defensive setup demands. This means that the defense has to go man on man or give the defending back a chopout.
So much for the airchair experts critic on how the ball gets down to our backline
But hey only so much you can see on tellie
Iceman234 probably holds his own in the "big" stakes too....Shaggy wrote:We are 9 zip.
Go and have a beer with Iceman234 and enjoy yourself. I know nothing about you except your big, 20's and live in Brisbane based on posts. Iceman234 I believe is a family man but not certain.
Why not enjoy 10 zip together? We are all Saints supporters .
And yes, we are all Saints, about to go 10 zip, and have a ripping FB holding down a possie we didn't think he would have, 12 weeks ago.
Let's enjoy it.
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Am astonished that you're hanging another piece of shyte around Max's neck ( now he's responsible for having a W/L ratio less than 50%) to go with calling him a one trick pony. How quickly some forget the service and leadership given to this club by committed long term players.perfectionist wrote: Did you see his performance in the 1998 finals? If not, then shut up moron. Respect is to whoever is the coach at the time, especially on game day. The W/L ratio in games that he has played in is less than 50%. No surprise for me. Zac's batting at 100 at the moment, fortunately a big surprise for me.
You can grind whatever axes you have about Max and trot out whatever direct personal abuse you like mate- it doesn't change the fact that Max has regularly played on and beaten the likes of Lloyd, Richo, Johno Brown, Tredrea, Fevola, Buddy et al and been the mainstay of our backline for years and years. We've struck a little vein of gold with Zac, and thank God, because if we hadn't we'd all, you included, be desperate for Max to slot straight back in.
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no not stuff max, when fit he should come back in...hopesullyjonesy wrote:Here's a question for those wanting Max straight in. Apart from stopping the full forward from kicking goals,what else does Max offer?
I love Max's stopping abilitities,but right now as I see it,I'd have Zac in the side over Max. Dawson is better in the air,a better decision maker,and better by foot,only marginally in all those areas,but better none the less.Max is the best spoiler I've ever seen,but dawson isn't a muppet in this area either.
He might get a few hidings or drop off form in coming weeks and this might all change. However at this stage,stuff Max,he can wait
max is better in the air, dawson has been involved in a bit of kick in the backline and not really done anything under pressure (not like max did anyway and its not a slant on his performance)...
"It's a work in progress," Lyon said.
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Max is a gun but Dawson really has done a lot Max things this season. Go and have a beer with Iceman234 and watch Zac live. Regardless Max will play for us in the finals. Probably Zac also .Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:no not stuff max, when fit he should come back in...hopesullyjonesy wrote:Here's a question for those wanting Max straight in. Apart from stopping the full forward from kicking goals,what else does Max offer?
I love Max's stopping abilitities,but right now as I see it,I'd have Zac in the side over Max. Dawson is better in the air,a better decision maker,and better by foot,only marginally in all those areas,but better none the less.Max is the best spoiler I've ever seen,but dawson isn't a muppet in this area either.
He might get a few hidings or drop off form in coming weeks and this might all change. However at this stage,stuff Max,he can wait
max is better in the air, dawson has been involved in a bit of kick in the backline and not really done anything under pressure (not like max did anyway and its not a slant on his performance)...
Zac has been fantastic this year but remember he is still relatively young and inexperienced especially when holding down such a key position. I love the bloke and the intestinal fortitude he has shown in turning around his early career form and proving the doubters wrong
But...
Max is a better backman than him and has proven it over many years. It is well documented that often Sammy Fisher or Blake or whoever is close to Zak have been instructed to lend a little more than a helping hand whilst he learns his craft. (of course all full backs have this type of help). Max, I think, would need less help and therefore leave Sammy, BJ, Gram or whoever a little more free to run out of the backline and create.
Zak will be a player for many years to come and has time on his side. I am certain he will develop into one of the premier backs in the league in 3-4 years but when Buddy or Franklin come-a-knocking in a few weeks, I think I would rather Max take them.
I am a bit worried that this place will explode when and if Zac is dropped for a spell in the magoos for Max and for team balance. But make no mistake, a gem (allbeit still a little unpolished) has been uncovered in Zac. Just don't be surprised if he ends up playing in the two's a little more in the second half of the season - that is if Max's body holds up.
But...
Max is a better backman than him and has proven it over many years. It is well documented that often Sammy Fisher or Blake or whoever is close to Zak have been instructed to lend a little more than a helping hand whilst he learns his craft. (of course all full backs have this type of help). Max, I think, would need less help and therefore leave Sammy, BJ, Gram or whoever a little more free to run out of the backline and create.
Zak will be a player for many years to come and has time on his side. I am certain he will develop into one of the premier backs in the league in 3-4 years but when Buddy or Franklin come-a-knocking in a few weeks, I think I would rather Max take them.
I am a bit worried that this place will explode when and if Zac is dropped for a spell in the magoos for Max and for team balance. But make no mistake, a gem (allbeit still a little unpolished) has been uncovered in Zac. Just don't be surprised if he ends up playing in the two's a little more in the second half of the season - that is if Max's body holds up.
Gathering converts in Frogland..
AFL house in Brisbane. Got a transfer to be with sp2008. However I think he is wrong about Zac. I intially thought he couldnt play but he is improving weekly. Not sure what happens when Max is fully fit because I think both can only play deep in defence because they dont get enough of the ball to play on the half back line.Iceman234 wrote:Tosser call when we know you are in Brisbane and P66 is at AFL house....Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:hey plugger let's go for a beer tomorrow after workIceman234 wrote:LOL just looked it up and it was your mate Plugger66 who actually started the thread to ask where you were....
what do you think?
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Thanks Perfectionst for pointing out Max is a dud because he played in more losses than wins.
Here is a list of other duds who have represented St.Kilda
Burke
Loewe
Peckett
Winmar
Jones
Thompson
Hayes
Frawley
Grant
and the biggest duds of all:
Lockett 68 wins, 115 losses
Barker 60 wins, 165 losses
Here is a list of other duds who have represented St.Kilda
Burke
Loewe
Peckett
Winmar
Jones
Thompson
Hayes
Frawley
Grant
and the biggest duds of all:
Lockett 68 wins, 115 losses
Barker 60 wins, 165 losses
Furtius Quo Rdelious
This thread is Carroll V Dawson though, there are (unfortunately) plenty of other places where the Max V Dawson argument rages.Splayd wrote:Zac has been fantastic this year but remember he is still relatively young and inexperienced especially when holding down such a key position. I love the bloke and the intestinal fortitude he has shown in turning around his early career form and proving the doubters wrong
But...
Max is a better backman than him and has proven it over many years. It is well documented that often Sammy Fisher or Blake or whoever is close to Zak have been instructed to lend a little more than a helping hand whilst he learns his craft. (of course all full backs have this type of help). Max, I think, would need less help and therefore leave Sammy, BJ, Gram or whoever a little more free to run out of the backline and create.
Zak will be a player for many years to come and has time on his side. I am certain he will develop into one of the premier backs in the league in 3-4 years but when Buddy or Franklin come-a-knocking in a few weeks, I think I would rather Max take them.
I am a bit worried that this place will explode when and if Zac is dropped for a spell in the magoos for Max and for team balance. But make no mistake, a gem (allbeit still a little unpolished) has been uncovered in Zac. Just don't be surprised if he ends up playing in the two's a little more in the second half of the season - that is if Max's body holds up.
Zac's last few years with us were notable for the fact that Clarkson did everything possible to avoid playing him. Just couldn't bring himself to give him another go, for some reason, regardless of Zac's form in the magoos and our injuries. This year karma caught up and our spate of injuries exposed our lack of tall, defensive stoppers while Zac's gone from strength to strength when given the opportunity and support of the coach.jackal wrote:Clearly an inspired pick and Dawson is AFL quality. Would guarentee that if he was still at the hawks would have played nearly all if not all games this year with the loss of Gilham Birchall and Croad (way better than Murphy for example).
Clarkson hasn't made many blues, but his handling of Dawson's career is probably the most prominent. At any rate, it's all good for you guys and I'm happy to see Zac given a real go and experiencing success at it, to boot.
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he played forward for all of last year in the reserves so it's hardly karma...maybe they thought he had potential there instead of down back where he tried and it didnt come off, regardless of age and size they might have believed it to be a non-factor in comparison to footy smarts etcMotown wrote:Zac's last few years with us were notable for the fact that Clarkson did everything possible to avoid playing him. Just couldn't bring himself to give him another go, for some reason, regardless of Zac's form in the magoos and our injuries. This year karma caught up and our spate of injuries exposed our lack of tall, defensive stoppers while Zac's gone from strength to strength when given the opportunity and support of the coach.jackal wrote:Clearly an inspired pick and Dawson is AFL quality. Would guarentee that if he was still at the hawks would have played nearly all if not all games this year with the loss of Gilham Birchall and Croad (way better than Murphy for example).
Clarkson hasn't made many blues, but his handling of Dawson's career is probably the most prominent. At any rate, it's all good for you guys and I'm happy to see Zac given a real go and experiencing success at it, to boot.
murphy is better than zac, if zac positions were swapped we would be singing the praises of murphy
"It's a work in progress," Lyon said.
Really? You must've been watching a different reserves side to me =PSaints Premiers 2008 wrote:he played forward for all of last year in the reserves so it's hardly karma...maybe they thought he had potential there instead of down back where he tried and it didnt come off, regardless of age and size they might have believed it to be a non-factor in comparison to footy smarts etc
The reserves side I saw had Dawson mostly KPB with Markovic. When we were getting belted (often), he swung forward on occasion to give a focal point up forward if our young key forwards were struggling. Into the ruck on occasion, too, if needed. He did get one bag of eight playing forward against the Bendigo reserves/U19s when Essendon had their horror injury run, though, but he played back generally.
Which reserves side were you watching?
Tom Murphy is a mid-sized stopper who typically plays on the likes of Medhurst, Betts, Johnson and Murphy. He's hopelessly outclassed in the air as a makeshift KPB, a position he wouldn't have to play if we had adequate backup there.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:murphy is better than zac, if zac positions were swapped we would be singing the praises of murphy
You're really determined to downrate Zac, aren't you? That's fine, you can join all those Hawks fans who wrote him off as "not AFL standard", too. It's by no means an exclusive club.