How did Dawson go? - opinions please

[perfectionist]

About half of posters who have cast votes have included Zac Dawson in the best five, so anyone who says he played poorly must have been at another game or at the bar all day. There were two under performers on the backline yesterday, but I'm not about to drop them either, on one game.

People need to get used to the fact that he will not be dropped if he continues to play as he has in the first eight games and neither should anyone else on the backline. Chances may come through injury, although why any Saints fan would wish injury on a player just so their "favourite" player can get a game alludes me.

Football is game of taking your oportunity if and when it arrives. Zac Dawson has done that. I wish him well.

[Thinline]

I thought Zac went ok, though got very lucky with the Umpire's. Honestly don't know how he got that free kick in the last quarter.

Lloyd grabbed his jumper with first contact. Technical, but easily justifiable. Free every time if the umpire's within coo-ee.

I though Zac was okay. Played significant time on one of the greats (god that hurts to say) in Lloyd and outpositioned Neagle several times. Took the game on. Made good decisions mostly.

Still reckoned he was outmuscled every now and then, but Lloyd is a bit of a gorilla...

I reckon for Melbourne game you'll see Blake out and both Max and Dawson in as an experiment.

Just a feeling.

[perfectionist]

...
I reckon for Melbourne game you'll see Blake out and both Max and Dawson in as an experiment.

Just a feeling.

Hmm. Dropping Blake after (hopefully) winning our first nine rather than our first ten as in 2004. Yes, that would be an experiment. I hope your 'feeling' is just the result of last night's din-din rather than anything more substantial.

[plugger66]

I thought Zac went ok, though got very lucky with the Umpire's. Honestly don't know how he got that free kick in the last quarter.

Lloyd grabbed his jumper with first contact. Technical, but easily justifiable. Free every time if the umpire's within coo-ee.

I though Zac was okay. Played significant time on one of the greats (god that hurts to say) in Lloyd and outpositioned Neagle several times. Took the game on. Made good decisions mostly.

Still reckoned he was outmuscled every now and then, but Lloyd is a bit of a gorilla...

I reckon for Melbourne game you'll see Blake out and both Max and Dawson in as an experiment.

Just a feeling.

So we drop a guy who is going fairly well just to see if Zac and Max will work. That doesn't seem fair on Blake and wouldn't help team morale

[Thinline]

...
I reckon for Melbourne game you'll see Blake out and both Max and Dawson in as an experiment.

Just a feeling.

Hmm. Dropping Blake after (hopefully) winning our first nine rather than our first ten as in 2004. Yes, that would be an experiment. I hope your 'feeling' is just the result of last night's din-din rather than anything more substantial.

Yep. Maybe it was. Ten in the men's room and the feeling gone. Stupid idea. I've moved on.

[joffaboy]

Zac Dawson had another very good game. Outpointed Lloyd in the fourth qtr and generally look calm and composed throughout the game.

To even consider dropping ANYONE from our back six is ludricrious.

Have a look at the way they have gelled.

Have a look at our points conceeded against any other club including the great Geelong.

Why in hell would you break up something that has exceeded every expectation by a million miles?

We are in a great position. We have been so fortunate to play 8 games and hardly have an injury. We have a settled team that is playing exciting attacking, and extraordinary defensive football.

I am a huge fan of Max and Goose, and Raph, and about 3 or four others who cant get a gig.

Well footy is a tough business ad you take your chances. Max has been injured all season, the two talked about Zac and Blake have played every game and are excelling.

How could you drop Zac Dawson? How could you drop Blake?

Zac has done everything and more asked of him and fully deserves his spot. So he has been getting praise for his performances - has beaten almost every opponent - but f@@@ you Zac you are dropped . Oh yeah that would be great for morale and the team dynamic - NOT.

How can you drop Blake? He is doing his job brilliantly in defence ATM. he is also able to fill in at ruck, up forward, and in the midfield. We need Blake for flexibility if we have injuries during a game or we need to change the setup. Anyone remember his third quarter against Hawthorn last year? We lose all that with Max.

Some people are too impatient. Unfortunately we will get injuries and thats when the likes of Max or Goose will get a go.

Just enjoy the ride at the moment and delight in the fact that Max, Goose,and Raph can't get in the team.

What a wonderful problem.

[Thinline]

Agree with you Joffa.

My 'feeling' was something I shouldn't have bothered converting to words.

You're right. Dawson has done nothing wrong. Nor Blake.

No changes until injury or performance forces them.

[Animal Enclosure]

A few points re: the Zac/Max/Blake debate.

Firstly I thought Zac was outstanding & the fact that a few of you are saying 'well Lloyd out muscled him a few times' just goes to show how well he is going & how our expectations of him have grown. Lloyd is a champion footballer & a huge, strong, smart forward. He has thrashed many top quality defenders in his career & is playing bloody good footy at present. Zac beat him in a number of one on one contests (that free kick was obviously there) & also ran off Lloyd to create for his teammates.

I think his disposal by foot will improve as his confidence rises but I can't think of too many erros that he has made. He actually has pretty good skills for a bloke of 6'5.

I do believe that he & Max & Blakey can thrive in the same team. We have the luxury of having a number of extremely talented & mobile half backs (Chips, BJ, Gilbo) who can allow those three to take the 3 talls (with Max very capable of taking the mid sized forwards as well). The only way that I see this happening is due to an omission or injury up the ground.

While I have defended Gwilty & love his improvement, I would have our best 22 (with all fit & in form) looking something like this;

B. Baker Dawson Hudgton
HB. Gilbert Blake Ray
C. Gram Hayes Goddard
HF. S.Fisher Riewoldt Montagna
F. Milne Koschitzke Schneider
R. Gardiner Dal Santo Ball
I. King Geary Jones McQualter
E. R.Clarke Maguire Armitage Gwilt Dempster, etc

While traditional positions are a thing of the past, having Chips, BJ & Gilbo float between half back & half forward would be a luxury that few teams have (or could handle). Ray has been a brilliant acquisition that has added further flexibility.

The emergency list just shows the depth that we have if form or injury strikes (which it invariably will).

[Dis Believer]

Watched the game from behind the goals this week and would normally be on the wing, so had a different view.

Was surprised how quickly Dawson covers the ground for a guy of his size.

[aussiejones]

"Blake to me is taking the easy option, usually sideways more often than not, I think he's been told to do it as well, nothing really wrong with it mind you, but it looks very robotic."

Punch out is his first choice .....sometimes he could / should mark ...

Comments .

[Armoooo]

I said this in another thread but it is obviously more appropriate here.

Zac Dawson was lucky not to cost us the match in the last quarter with his unbelievable holding and grabbing.

I remember that free kick he got against Lloyd, I assumed it was Lloyd's free kick considering the amount of jumper Zac was trying to take home with him, I couldn't hide my delight and bemusement when the ball was given to Zac.

He is doing his job and as long as he continues to get help from the likes of BJ, Gilbo, Blake etc. he will be alright, I just don't like him one on one.

[starsign]

I thought Zac went ok, though got very lucky with the Umpire's. Honestly don't know how he got that free kick in the last quarter.

neither did the commentators at the time but minutes later they said they just had another look at it in replay and he had his jumper held first and that the umpires made a correct decision!

[bigcarl]

I remember that free kick he got against Lloyd, I assumed it was Lloyd's free kick considering the amount of jumper Zac was trying to take home with him, I couldn't hide my delight and bemusement when the ball was given to Zac.

that was the payback for a previous "staging" act for which lloyd was rewarded.

speaking of which, our key forwards, roo and kosi, might need some acting lessons. they are not in the same class at milking free kicks as "oscar" lloyd.

bj, when he plays forward, is a natural at it though.

[Sobraz]

Thought Zac was great on Sunday, and is getting better.... He has very good hands down low for a big guy, and whilst his kicking is abit shakey, he is improving very quickly.... Take a lovely mark too...

I actually think he is better value now than max... Max would fit into our side nicely, but as the no.1 big defender in the side, Zac holds that crown now AFAIC....

[desertsaint]

Zac's been great - but Max is easily the better player.

I don't understand this mentality that says - win and keep the same team, regardless of any other circumstance.
That's REACTIVE footy - not PROACTIVE footy.
Do you think Ablett will be given a few games in the VFL as the team has won and his replacement has done his job and doesn't deserve to be dropped?

For a non-established player to do well in the seniors is reward for his effort, that plus the knowledge that when a spot opens-he'll be seriously considered.

[plugger66]

A few points re: the Zac/Max/Blake debate.

Firstly I thought Zac was outstanding & the fact that a few of you are saying 'well Lloyd out muscled him a few times' just goes to show how well he is going & how our expectations of him have grown. Lloyd is a champion footballer & a huge, strong, smart forward. He has thrashed many top quality defenders in his career & is playing bloody good footy at present. Zac beat him in a number of one on one contests (that free kick was obviously there) & also ran off Lloyd to create for his teammates.

I think his disposal by foot will improve as his confidence rises but I can't think of too many erros that he has made. He actually has pretty good skills for a bloke of 6'5.

I do believe that he & Max & Blakey can thrive in the same team. We have the luxury of having a number of extremely talented & mobile half backs (Chips, BJ, Gilbo) who can allow those three to take the 3 talls (with Max very capable of taking the mid sized forwards as well). The only way that I see this happening is due to an omission or injury up the ground.

While I have defended Gwilty & love his improvement, I would have our best 22 (with all fit & in form) looking something like this;

B. Baker Dawson Hudgton
HB. Gilbert Blake Ray
C. Gram Hayes Goddard
HF. S.Fisher Riewoldt Montagna
F. Milne Koschitzke Schneider
R. Gardiner Dal Santo Ball
I. King Geary Jones McQualter
E. R.Clarke Maguire Armitage Gwilt Dempster, etc

While traditional positions are a thing of the past, having Chips, BJ & Gilbo float between half back & half forward would be a luxury that few teams have (or could handle). Ray has been a brilliant acquisition that has added further flexibility.

The emergency list just shows the depth that we have if form or injury strikes (which it invariably will).

That full back line just doesnt get enough of the ball. It all starts these days in the baclkline and moving Sam Fisher to fit in a person who doesnt get the ball makes no sense. There will be injuries or bad form. Lets wait till then before we change the back 6.

[Animal Enclosure]

That full back line just doesnt get enough of the ball. It all starts these days in the baclkline and moving Sam Fisher to fit in a person who doesnt get the ball makes no sense. There will be injuries or bad form. Lets wait till then before we change the back 6.

Fair point Plugger but realistically no one ever lines up in the traditional positions anymore. Ray, Gram, BJ, Chips, Dal, etc all spend time deep in defence & get plenty of it to cover for Max, Zac & Blakey. My point of being able to use Chips, BJ, Gilbo, etc further up the ground is not meant to mean 'play Sam Fisher at half forward permanently', it's just my opinion on the current debate on what to do when Max is ready to go. Having someone of Chips' ability pushing forward is pretty enticing when you may have Gilbo & BJ looking after things down back. The three of them are a luxury to have... big, skilled utility players. Not many sides have one let alone 3 (4 if you throw Roo in).

I think that Zac gives us something different to what Max does & they can both fit into the same side.

Anyway you look at it, it's a nice position to be in.

[Milton66]

If the comparison is purely player v player, then it's a no brainer.

However, Zac has done everything asked of him and has exceeded expectations. Is there room for both?

YES.

I seem to rcall us doing pretty well with Goose, Max and a certain Penny in 04.

And frankly, we've never found a true replacement for Penny.

Why not Blake, Max and Zac? You can still play Fisher and Ray off the flanks.

[Solar]

is improving his body work in marking contests. The reason llyod was frced to stage for those free's was because zac edged him forward and was going to mark it. The biggest problem as a backman against llyod is tht half the time the guy over re-acts to body pessure while not even attempting the mark. the likes of franklin and roo actuall keeping going for the mark and thus do not get as many frees.

[bigcarl]

The reason llyod was frced to stage for those free's was because zac edged him forward and was going to mark it.

true, zac's judgement and strength is very good and he left lloyd with no trick but but to wave his arms around like a poor orphaned waif, hoping for some sympathy from a gullible umpire.

still, any advantage if you can get it, i guess.

roo and kosi tend to be able to hold their place in a marking contest, but if they do find themselves hopelessly out of position it is one worth remembering, particularly if used sparingly.

nothing wrong with putting a bit of pressure on the umpires occasionally.

[stkfc1]

I thought Zac went ok, though got very lucky with the Umpire's. Honestly don't know how he got that free kick in the last quarter.

Lloyd grabbed his jumper with first contact. Technical, but easily justifiable. Free every time if the umpire's within coo-ee.

I though Zac was okay. Played significant time on one of the greats (god that hurts to say) in Lloyd and outpositioned Neagle several times. Took the game on. Made good decisions mostly.

Still reckoned he was outmuscled every now and then, but Lloyd is a bit of a gorilla...

I reckon for Melbourne game you'll see Blake out and both Max and Dawson in as an experiment.

Just a feeling.

There was a picture in today's Hun,that clearly shows Lloyd with a hand full of Zac's jumper .Ump was in perfect position, was always going to be free...

[spert]

Zac played a servicable game and will continue to improve. The only player who disappointed me against the Bombers, was Ball..slow decision making and got caught a bit too easy.

[Milton66]

I still don't understand why people assume that as soon as Max returns, Zac is gone?

Zac is a different player to Max. He takes the game on and can provide some run. Max is a stopper, and a great one at that.

Room for both. Goose is the one with the ? as far as I can see.