Goose or Gwilt?

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Schnieder's stats were a surprise to me because I hardly noticed him.

What I did notice was Essendon running the ball deep from defence and burning us off with back up numbers - sometimes with Riewoldt or Koschitzke doing the chasing after being spoilt.

You could see it happening - they confronted the front on player when he appeared (leaving his man to do so creating a further problem) but the support runners meant they could flick off and by-pass, seemingly running the length of the ground to goal in spectacular fashion.

So the lament was the absence of chasers - it wasn't that they burned off the chasers, there were none - and that is why I (did not) notice Schnieder or Milne and queried their contributions.

There was no pressure coming from behind. No one was in sight!

In past weeks I have thought that what they should be doing as small forwards was building well, and the lessons were being learnt - opportunistic off the marking contests and harrassing when defenders had the ball.

Tonight they just seemed to me not to work. Because they were taken on by a side hell bent on run - and our guys did not appear to want to actually run to negate, or attempt to negate, the option.

So Schnieder surprises me.

Then some of the turnovers where Essendon went in with 2 or 3 players free!

One of these was caused by an inter-change - and was sheer laziness.

The first go in Essendon stayed on the wrong side (with 3 players un-marked by defenders) and we rebounded, but then the sloppy turnover and it was goodnight nurse - we were not going to be reprieved the second time.

[bergholt]

Same old debate but after the way Gwilt performed tonight I think Goose should definately come in.

i've bagged gwilt all over the forum, but i though he was pretty good last night, especially near the start when we were going well. three goal assists out of four score assists if i was counting right.

he's still not tearing the world apart, but if he plays like he did last night every week at least he'll be solidly holding his spot in the side.

[spert]

Gwilt was OK, didn't set the world on fire but set up some goals and did a bit of bodywork in the packs to allow teamates ot get possessions -I would be more critical of the efforts of Ball and NDS as both got too easily beaten in contests in the middle and around packs. The Bombers threw everything at us last night and we won. I still think Goose is way off senior slection and at the moment looks like a good VFL player.

[SainterK]

i've bagged gwilt all over the forum, but i though he was pretty good last night, especially near the start when we were going well. three goal assists out of four score assists if i was counting right.

he's still not tearing the world apart, but if he plays like he did last night every week at least he'll be solidly holding his spot in the side.

You must be proud...

[spyglass]

2 weeks in a row.

It doesn't matter what Gwilt did, look at what his opponent did.

Last week Maxwell regulary left Gwilt to go help out against Riewoldt.
This week it was McPhee's turn.
Mc Phee did not target Riewoldt but instead left Gwilt to play loose man in defence.

Both weeks the opposition recognised St Kilda does not play through Gwilt even if he is left alone.
They both played a good defender on Gwilt and that defender hurt St Kilda big time.

There were times when St Kilda setup with Gwilt in the goal square just to make his opponent accountable.

If there is a player who can command more respect from the opposition that player must be brought in place of Gwilt

I doubt that opponents would be so willing to leave Goose alone on the forward line.

agree 100%

Gwilt is more of a decoy forward. Regularly we have the option of going through him but don't. Goose will be a better marking target in the forward 50, but I think we will only make the swap if Roo is going to be given more licence to roam and play further up the ground (which I'd like to see)

[bergholt]

i've bagged gwilt all over the forum, but i though he was pretty good last night, especially near the start when we were going well. three goal assists out of four score assists if i was counting right.

he's still not tearing the world apart, but if he plays like he did last night every week at least he'll be solidly holding his spot in the side.

You must be proud...

what?

[InkerSaint]

Glad to see some people here standing up in Gwilt's defence.

Was not worst on ground or even in the worst 6 on ground for the Saints.

Why, after every game, does the argument rage over who to drop? Is this some kind of ingrained Saintsational habit?

There's some pretty harsh assessments here of last night's performances, clearly a victory over trying circumstances.

Hell, if you want to drop someone - what about Ball? Had an absolute shocker.

[saintbob]

Goose must get a game shortly for his own self confidence, but Gwilt has done a lot wrong either would be very unlucky IMO.

[Richter]

Glad to see some people here standing up in Gwilt's defence.

Was not worst on ground or even in the worst 6 on ground for the Saints.

Why, after every game, does the argument rage over who to drop? Is this some kind of ingrained Saintsational habit?

There's some pretty harsh assessments here of last night's performances, clearly a victory over trying circumstances.

Hell, if you want to drop someone - what about Ball? Had an absolute shocker.

It's simply a matter of wanting the team to be better and better.

Whilst you're right Ball didn't play well yesterday there is no-one knocking down the door in the twos to replace him. Armitage would be a like-for-like replacement but IMO has not done anywhere near enough.

In Gwilt's case, I think he has made a valuable contribution - BUT there is a proven AFL level player (Goose, on 99 games) who is playing in his exact position for Sandy - and kicked 10 goals in the last two games. JG has kicked 3 goals in 8 games at CHF this year. Yes, plenty of goal assists and forward defensive pressure..... but is it enough to keep his spot?

Perfectly reasonable for us to wonder..... knowing that the tough selection decisions are made by those better qualified than us to make them.

[Spinner]

Gwilt's first half was fantastic.....Broke packs (ie Bally's goal) and used his long kicking as a weapon into the forwardline. He definitely has the tools to play that forward role.


Surely Goose has to come into the side for a defender. He has more to offer than Blake (cue: backlash). At the very minimum he could be added to the defence to allow Fisher into the midfield.

Senior players playing 2nds: Maguire, Hudghton, Rapheal Clake.

Surely the above need to be picked. Winning just covers the cracks.

[SainterK]

Do you think there is a remote possibility, that Ross tried out Gilbert in the forward line during the preseason because our backline would soon be getting a major boost with some big names returning from injury?

Dunno, just attempting to get into the inner workings of our coaches mind

[bergholt]

Surely Goose has to come into the side for a defender. He has more to offer than Blake (cue: backlash). At the very minimum he could be added to the defence to allow Fisher into the midfield.

i agree that he has more to offer than blake. but i'd be wary of necessarily pushing fisher into midfield. we want to make sure we don't turn an all-australian defender into a run-of-the-mill midfielder. gram, for instance, looked much better off the half back line than he does from the wing/centre.

Senior players playing 2nds: Maguire, Hudghton, Rapheal Clake.

Surely the above need to be picked. Winning just covers the cracks.

agreed.

[Sobraz]

Cant believe what Im reading...

Gwilt was terrific yesterday, and played his role perfectly.... His night would have been capped off if he kicked that goal from the pocket after the great mark he took on the line, but alas....

I know Gwilt is in the gun every week, but after last nights game he deserves a reprieve.... He ran hard, had good, clean hands, disposed of the ball beautifully, setting up a number of goals, and tackled and busted his ass in traffic all night... His using his body more and taking players on... He's still learning, and the best part is, he is improving..

Goose will find it much harder playing forward in the top league than how he's going at Sandy.... It is a different role, with far more running and tackling, nimbleness and leg speed needed...

I still think Goose's future as an AFL player lies in defence, where I think he will star again...

But Gwilt must stay on last nights game...

Good effort Jimmy....

[Sobraz]

Gwilt's first half was fantastic.....Broke packs (ie Bally's goal) and used his long kicking as a weapon into the forwardline. He definitely has the tools to play that forward role.


Surely Goose has to come into the side for a defender. He has more to offer than Blake (cue: backlash). At the very minimum he could be added to the defence to allow Fisher into the midfield.

Senior players playing 2nds: Maguire, Hudghton, Rapheal Clake.

Surely the above need to be picked. Winning just covers the cracks.

Agreed... Blake should be the more likely unlucky one to make way for Goose.... Like for like..

[InkerSaint]

And in the Gwilt camp... none other than Nick Riewoldt:
[quote]“I think Jimmy Gwilt’s role as well can’t be underestimated. He has been made to really earn his place in the team and I think in the role he is playing for us, he has been really valuable,â€

[saintsRrising]

Gwilt has been doing his job.


On the other hand..IF Max, Maguire and possibly Raph come back in.....unless injury occurs other players will have to be squeezed out.


Max is too good to not come back in.

Maguire is starting to show the form where the coaches will be keen to see if he can strut his stuff at AFL level...whether that is down back...or up front.


Raph is more problematic...given the acceptable form of players like Gwilt and Geary.

Jones has been sensational as our quick run-with tagger who is also offensive....so now way will CJ be going anywhere unless his form evaporates....which is not where he trending.



Good teams have this problem.....more deserving players than you can fit in... Our selectors have hard problem. But a nice problem to have.



Max, Goose, Raph, Zac, Gwilt, Geary, Mini all cannot fit in. Plus Eddy has performed capably when played.

All have been making strong claims to be in our first 22......but not all can squeeze into the one 22.

Even MacEvoy in his one senior game this year looked ok.
If Armo was given a chance he probably would acquit himself as well.

[bergholt]

Plus Eddy has performed capably when played.

and was BOG at sandy yesterday.

If Armo was givena chance he probably would aquit himself as well.

that might be true. but i reckon we should pick players who are playing well rather than those who might play well if picked.

[bigcarl]

selection will be interesting this week.

we won, but it was unconvincing and a wake-up call imo.

we looked flat and ordinary after the first quarter. the dons clearly outpointed us and put us under more pressure than we have been than at any stage this season.

though the dons' extra three-days break would have been a factor, i noticed ross steered well clear of using it as an excuse in his press conference.

we've been loathe to change winning line-ups, but this was the type of performance that might prompt an unforced change or two, imo.

[Duggie]

Didn't Gwilt make the play of the day when he broke two tackles and made the pass for a goal? Quality at times when needed! Keep him in.

It seems he will continue to attract critism of this kind until he reaches a stage of satisfaction called for by a bandwagon group who expect him to perform as a ready made star. Remember the long drawn out debete some time ago about Goddard and how a few of us saw great potential in him?
I like what Gwilt does in the tough clinches and am expecting a 3-vote game from him pretty soon.
Meanwhile, there could be another spot for Goose on the back line if he can adapt quickly to the tight game plan SOS has got going. IMO Blakey was struggling on Sunday despite his huge heart but then almost the whole side were suffering the effects of a 3 day shorter break than the rampant Bombers-- of some small concern to Ross Lyon during the week.

[james rose]

Gwilt was lively in the first half and in my calculations had 2 or 3 goal assists, In the second half when we were struggling he constantly ran hard into space to be an option and either held marks or caused a stoppage to allow us to set up again. I also thought his preassure and tackling was equal to any other forward today.

I stand by my assesment of his game. I have questioned his selection at times also but on this weeks form I would be staggered if he was considered for omission.

Agreed. I thought he was one of the BOG in the first quarter and worked hard all night. He did indeed have 3 goal assists- nothing to sneer at and as you said led hard all night.

[SainterK]

So the overall opinon is divided, I am still amazed how differently people call it...

[3rd generation saint]

I actually thought Gwilt really stood up in the last quarter when he was really needed.
I don't think we can play Goose in the forward line with Roo & Kosi as we would become a little top heavy.
Gwilt is just the right size for that 3rd forward.
But it is nice to have the problem of trying to find a spot for all these players.
It will interesting to see how Zac does on Bradshaw this week, if he has a good game against Bradshaw, Max may have to wait a while to get back in.

[vacuous space]

Surely Goose has to come into the side for a defender. He has more to offer than Blake (cue: backlash). At the very minimum he could be added to the defence to allow Fisher into the midfield.

I doubt Blake will be dropped. Goose at his best might have been better. It's been a long time since Goose was at his best. I'd back Blake over Goose at this point. I don't see a spot in the midfield for Fisher either.

[saintsRrising]

Lyon is big on roles...

Blake has a great leap and is the second best spolier after Max. So he often gets the resting ruck.

Another role Blake has is to get free and then on receiving the ball get it off to one of our set-up players....BJ etc..

Both can play CHB...but I would not want to see Goose on resting ruckman. would be more at ease with Blake at FB than Goose.

Goose is better contested mark...and better kick.

Blake is the better runner and and can keep up with smaller players as long as they are not lightning quick.

They are different but overlapping players.

[skeptic]

I reckon we'll make a few forced changes...

now i didn't much of the game but by all accounts, there are some ginger saints out there
Blake looks sore
Jones supposedly is walking around with a limp
some ??? over Gram's fitness and his disposal seems worse then usual

Then you've got Raph, McEvoy Eddy, and Maguire banging down the door for selcetion + Armitage trying hard too as well as Hudghton waiting.

Blake out for Maguire or Max
Gram out for Raph