John Beveridge lets take another Poll

[Winmar7Fan]

As we know lot can change in 12 months. I've always thought he had a good eye for talent but the majority on here thought he was a dud that only achieved picking up high draft picks from the bottom of the ladder.

That was 12 months ago when we were getting hammered so I'd like to see what people think of his ability now, and if he deserves any of the credit for where we are now seeing as he seems to be forgotten and not getting a mention from anyone including media.

[plugger66]

As we know lot can change in 12 months. I've always thought he had a good eye for talent but the majority on here thought he was a dud that only achieved picking up No 1 draft picks from the bottom of the ladder.

That was 12 months ago when we were getting hammered so I'd like to see what people think of his ability now, and if he deserves any of the credit for where we are now seeing as he seems to be forgotten and not getting a mention from anyone including media.

He hasnt been in charge for last 2 years which may be one reason he isnt getting mentioned.

[Winmar7Fan]

As we know lot can change in 12 months. I've always thought he had a good eye for talent but the majority on here thought he was a dud that only achieved picking up No 1 draft picks from the bottom of the ladder.

That was 12 months ago when we were getting hammered so I'd like to see what people think of his ability now, and if he deserves any of the credit for where we are now seeing as he seems to be forgotten and not getting a mention from anyone including media.

He hasnt been in charge for last 2 years which may be one reason he isnt getting mentioned.

No but he was still responsible for almost all of them.

[GrumpyOne]

but the majority on here thought he was a dud

Can't agree with that quote...... my recall was that his support level was well over 50%.

[B W and R all over]

The Brad Howard draft pick (second round, 2006) was one that had a lot of people here up in arms.

I don't think too many would have changed their tune just yet.

[GrumpyOne]

The Brad Howard draft pick (second round, 2006) was one that had a lot of people here up in arms.

I don't think too many would have changed their tune just yet.

As a wise man once said: "one swallow does not a summer make".

Is he to be judged on one mistake or are his many successes a mitigating factor?

[B W and R all over]

Cain Ackland, Michael Rix, Mark McGough and Phil Raymond were all drafted within one or two years of each other. Don't know if this helped JB's reputation.

[True Blue Sainter]

Cain Ackland, Michael Rix, Mark McGough and Phil Raymond were all drafted within one or two years of each other. Don't know if this helped JB's reputation.

To be fair to JB, Rix, McGough and Ackland were all GT & Matt Rendell's initiatives.

[barks4eva]

Cain Ackland, Michael Rix, Mark McGough and Phil Raymond were all drafted within one or two years of each other. Don't know if this helped JB's reputation.

Fact

Cain Ackland was Rendell and Thomas

Mark McGough was 100% Thomas

[saintsRrising]

As mentioned above....total recruiting was not good in the last part of JB's time, BUT when you take all the trades out (which wher not JB's call).....recruiting was not shocking nor was it an out-perform.....but had fallen behind some other clubs.

In part due to the clubs putting in a lot more money....and I suspect in part by other clubs getting a lot more scientific about selections

2006 was JB's last draft as the man in charge (hagain not of trades).

Armo is looking fair if you look at who was taken after.
Howard at 27 was a shocker....
Allen at 59 looks to be fair value


Rookies were an absolute gold-mine for us.
CJ, Van Reehan, Eddy, Wall, Gaery and Attard ave great return...

Now as we took rookies every year, but not this many...it begs the question that perhaps our real problem with rookies was lack of development????

[St Fidelius]

Cain Ackland, Michael Rix, Mark McGough and Phil Raymond were all drafted within one or two years of each other. Don't know if this helped JB's reputation.

To be fair to JB, Rix, McGough and Ackland were all GT & Matt Rendell's initiatives.

Yes, I think JB was in charge of searching for young talent and not recycled players...

Those decisions were not his call

[vacuous space]

JB did just fine given the resources at his disposal. I'm sure he'd have loved to have had what Drain does now, with full-time scouts all over the place. The 03-05 drafts were very lean overall, so we did well to find some servicable players. We weren't the best over that period, but we certainly weren't the worst. I don't think criticism of JB is fair, given he was hamstrung by a tight budget. He was fighting an uphill battle against other clubs and often outdoing them. His contribution was crucial in getting the club to where it is today. I don't think that should be forgotten.

[BigMart]

Lets deal with the facts.....rather than what is believed to have happened...

GT - employed JB to head recruiting, and it was his job to research each player and take the 'best' player at everypick.......recycled or not....

He weighed up whether Ackland was better value at pick 27 than the 27th best youngster.....and decided yes...Rendell was a part of his research.....as he was with Brooks......but was not the reason he was taken......he got advice about players from many sources.....and used his own judgement.....

Grant Thomas did indicate some players that he had an interest 'McGough' was one (as was Penny) which were taken....but not all of his interests were met, if there was better available.......or if they were taken.....infact, one draft StK were overseas and GT had to be called to find out who was picked....

fact is Beverage compiled a list........and merely followed it...

and after a certain amount of picks he deemed the rest were unlikely and either passed or went for a smokey with upside.....

Poor calls
Raymond - 67kg from a adel private school
Houlihan - 70kg never had body contact in footy
Howard - 70kg no ability
Connors - 68kg, too light...
none of these guys have the body for AFL footy

[older saint]

I do not have enough info to make an informed opinion however seems to be an uneven argument of bad picks. What about the likes of Aussie Jones, Matthew Lappin, Sam Fisher, Steven Powell, Andrew Thompson, Steven Milne, ( all taken later in the draft, recycled or rookies).

Except if you are richmond everyone has good and bad in hindsight.

[Animal Enclosure]

Lets deal with the facts.....rather than what is believed to have happened...

GT - employed JB to head recruiting, and it was his job to research each player and take the 'best' player at everypick.......recycled or not....

He weighed up whether Ackland was better value at pick 27 than the 27th best youngster.....and decided yes...Rendell was a part of his research.....as he was with Brooks......but was not the reason he was taken......he got advice about players from many sources.....and used his own judgement.....

Grant Thomas did indicate some players that he had an interest 'McGough' was one (as was Penny) which were taken....but not all of his interests were met, if there was better available.......or if they were taken.....infact, one draft StK were overseas and GT had to be called to find out who was picked....

fact is Beverage compiled a list........and merely followed it...

and after a certain amount of picks he deemed the rest were unlikely and either passed or went for a smokey with upside.....

Poor calls
Raymond - 67kg from a adel private school
Houlihan - 70kg never had body contact in footy
Howard - 70kg no ability
Connors - 68kg, too light...
none of these guys have the body for AFL footy

And with the exception of Howard all of these blokes were very late selections. The success ratio of 4th, 5th & 6th round picks would be pretty low at every club.

Connors has already put on significant muscle & is showing real promise in the 2's.

Brooks was traded for not drafted. Ackland was drafted, we desperately needed a ruckman & he was obviously the best option at 27 for that need (Simon Taylor, Brad Moran & Chris Bryan are the only ruckmen picked after Ackland that are still playing & none of those are in the best 2 ruckman at their club).

JB had been at the club for years prior to GT's appointment.. not sure where you got that one BigMart.... he recruited Banger FFS.

[Beej]

Where's the poll?

What a tease

[saintsRrising]

I think our trades are often influenced by where our "employees" have been......


New recruitin guy from Cats: King-Charlie Package

Lyon: Schneider and Dempster

Drain: Ray


Rendell: Ackland, Murray, Guerra..

Coincidence....I think not.

Not saying that our "employess" do not look more widely...but they probably view themselves as having some "inside" knowledge. If so...some have had a clue,,,,and some not

[BigMart]

So he was not employed whilst GT was there.....

I was working at my place of work well before my boss......but he is the one right now who employs me (and can terminate me...), and whilst GT was Coach and incharge of the footy dept....he employed Beverage.....

Conners showed promise in the pre-season, but has been poor since the season proper started (as with Raymond, Houlihan - who both looked OK in the prac games) did not state JB recruiting Conners.....just that he is a poor selection....albeit a late one


IMO Brooks was a draft selection.....No 8 and No 22...as was Fergus Watts at #17.....imo when you trade a pick for a player........that player becomes your selection.........so Watts was our first round pick in 2005 - Gibert our second...

[saintsRrising]

IMO Brooks was a draft selection.....No 8 and No 22...as was Fergus Watts at #17.....imo when you trade a pick for a player........that player becomes your selection.........so Watts was our first round pick in 2005 - Gibert our second...

If someone else makes the call...then no.

[Animal Enclosure]

So he was not employed whilst GT was there.....

I was working at my place of work well before my boss......but he is the one right now who employs me (and can terminate me...), and whilst GT was Coach and incharge of the footy dept....he employed Beverage.....

Conners showed promise in the pre-season, but has been poor since the season proper started (as with Raymond, Houlihan - who both looked OK in the prac games) did not state JB recruiting Conners.....just that he is a poor selection....albeit a late one


IMO Brooks was a draft selection.....No 8 and No 22...as was Fergus Watts at #17.....imo when you trade a pick for a player........that player becomes your selection.........so Watts was our first round pick in 2005 - Gibert our second...

JB was an employee of the club and has been since the mid 80's... He was not employed by GT nor was he recruited to the club by GT (as your statement suggested).

Conners was a bottom age selection with a late pick. He's coming along ok despite what you reckon.

Brooks was a trade. He was drafted by Port.

Watts was a trade. Ray was a trade, etc etc.

If you don't want people to pick apart your posts when they disagree with you then at least use language that is clear & not just your interpretation.

You had a go at a whole swag of late selections that didn't work out. Have a look at Beveridge's strike rate with 2nd & 3rd rounders... that is the better mark of a good recruiter & JB did very well with a number of mid range selections (Howard excepted- which I agree was a poor pick in HINDSIGHT).

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I still think exactly what I've always thought about Beveridge. He deserves credit without having been a genious.

With drafting the only time anyone's fans are ever really happy with recruitment is when they're marching up the ladder or have a couple of young guns in the side. Otherwise reviewing recruitment all too often turns into a game of what might have been. e.g. I rate Griffen, but imagine if Buddy were running around for the Bulldogs...

Everyone misses a fair share of picks.

For example, in '04 (one of the maligned drafts) there were several guys picked ahead of McQualter ('04) who have done little (Egan's gone entirely, Meesen's up to 6 games on his 2nd list, Danny Meyer 17 on his 2nd, Thompson's clinging to life at Richmond... Mini's at 44 on his 2nd go round with the Saints), and we're getting to a stage we can start to see good game numbers against guys we wouldn't want (Russell, Pattison).

We get to our recycled players (who clearly fit into the latter group) and they cop a lot, but from pick #19 on (Willits, Port) you start to see a lot of names who are out and contributed a lot less... Willets, Wells, Little, Gibson, Lee all with 5 or less games on their way to obscurity.

Ackland managed 62 between us and Carlton before needing to face reality... and more relevantly, of those still on the board, not counting father/sons, you've got McGuane (Tigers), LeCras (Eagles), Maric (Crows), Newton (Demons), Sherman (Lions) and Slattery (Bombers) are the picks between Ackland and McGough still playing... and in fact (because McGough and his 12 games probably find themselves in that same nothing pick category), when we go on further, only Taylor (Hawks), Tiller (Dogs), Knights (Crows), Moran (Crows), Mathew Egan (Cats), Gwilt (Saints), Chris Bryan(Pies) and Daniel Pratt (Kangas) are still on AFL lists.

Summary: Alternatives to Ackland - 15. Total picks after Ackland, 33 (45 picks, 7 passes, 5 Father son's) - and one of those 15 is playing for us. 4 teams (Blues, Power, Swans, Dockers) have nobody from picks exercised after the selection of Cain Ackland.

That's not saying Ackland or McGough was a good pick, but we could more easily have done worse than better. Still having McQualter and Gwilt in the AFL side isn't a bad result for what was a very hit and miss draft.

[saintsRrising]

about Beveridge. He deserves credit without having been a genious.

.

Indeed.

[saintsRrising]

and on Eljay (not selected wen JB was still head of kiidie recuiting).....
personally I think he hasa good chance of making it.

Lighter players can make it is they are skilled and quick..and Eljay appears to be both.

Eljay joined us after he had had some horrific injuries and so with also being "bottom-aged' he was never going to come on really quick.


Now not every one will make it...but Elajay along with equally light Choo Choo gives as some picks that are part speculative....but with good upside if they make it to add some dash and flair to the team.

From what I have seen, and again like Cho Choo, he is a natural footballer....who has to learn how to knuckle down and play professional football againts the big boys. If he can he can make it..if not he will not. Another Fiora if you will (though Fiora was better at the same age...)

[Winmar7Fan]

So he was not employed whilst GT was there.....

I was working at my place of work well before my boss......but he is the one right now who employs me (and can terminate me...), and whilst GT was Coach and incharge of the footy dept....he employed Beverage.....

Conners showed promise in the pre-season, but has been poor since the season proper started (as with Raymond, Houlihan - who both looked OK in the prac games) did not state JB recruiting Conners.....just that he is a poor selection....albeit a late one


IMO Brooks was a draft selection.....No 8 and No 22...as was Fergus Watts at #17.....imo when you trade a pick for a player........that player becomes your selection.........so Watts was our first round pick in 2005 - Gibert our second...

JB was an employee of the club and has been since the mid 80's... He was not employed by GT nor was he recruited to the club by GT (as your statement suggested).

Conners was a bottom age selection with a late pick. He's coming along ok despite what you reckon.

Brooks was a trade. He was drafted by Port.

Watts was a trade. Ray was a trade, etc etc.

If you don't want people to pick apart your posts when they disagree with you then at least use language that is clear & not just your interpretation.

You had a go at a whole swag of late selections that didn't work out. Have a look at Beveridge's strike rate with 2nd & 3rd rounders... that is the better mark of a good recruiter & JB did very well with a number of mid range selections (Howard excepted- which I agree was a poor pick in HINDSIGHT).

Correct I think from memory he even goes back as far as being involved with recruiting Nathan Burke?

[joffaboy]

Poor calls
Raymond - 67kg from a adel private school
Houlihan - 70kg never had body contact in footy
Howard - 70kg no ability
Connors - 68kg, too light...
none of these guys have the body for AFL footy

Connors may still fillout but the other three unfortunately were poor calls.

On the upside we picked up Gwilt in the 60's (decent sized body and now showing showing something), and Sam Fisher (again fairly decent size).

the four you called as poor calls are indeed too light for AFL while the two who would be deemed as a success certainly had the bodies to succeed.