Sack pain burns Grant Thomas

[saint66au]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

[Thinline]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

Ditto times infinity.

[meher baba]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

Ditto times infinity.

I think GT is just one of those high profile individuals (like Whitlam, Howard, Shane Warne, Julia Gillard, Hillary Clinton to name but a few) to whom some members of the public take such a violent dislike that they become somewhat obsessed with them.

To be fair to the obsessed GT haters, the man is an arrogant pr@#k who tends to blow his own trumpet and doesn't suffer those whom he considers to be fools gladly. This is what has always made him such good journalistic fodder and why he has been able to make something of a career for himself in the media since he stopped coaching.

Of course, there is a theory (which am I right in thinking that the poster has now confirmed himself?) that Teflon is actually Rod Butterss's son. This might be a partial explanation for his own obsession with GT.

As for sRr, I think we are dealing with someone who can't stand being called to account for anything he has ever written, and hence needs a lot of writing space to try to untangle himself from the various knots of reasoning into which he has tied himself: at present, his endless carry on in 2007 and 2008 that GT had supposedly ruined our playing list.

I don't expect these two posters to stop any time soon. And, while they carry on with their nonsense, I and others will continue to call them to account.

[bigcarl]

Of course, there is a theory (which am I right in thinking that the poster has now confirmed himself?) that Teflon is actually Rod Butterss's son. This might be a partial explanation for his own obsession with GT.

he did confirm it, but spelt butterss with one "s".

you'd expect him to be able to spell his own name, so it is still up in the air a bit.

[meher baba]

Of course, there is a theory (which am I right in thinking that the poster has now confirmed himself?) that Teflon is actually Rod Butterss's son. This might be a partial explanation for his own obsession with GT.

he did confirm it, but spelt butterss with one "s".

you'd expect him to be able to spell his own name, so it is still up in the air a bit.

Why must his surname be Butterss..............?

[saintsRrising]

sRs, ??

Actually it is the constant stream of rubbish that posters such as Shaggy seem to feel free to make up about me, or what I have written...as demonstrated by Shaggy in this thread.

I mean for example......I say a while back that I took a retrenchment package...and then based on absolutely no information Shaggy imagines some entire fictitious scenario about it and then writes his fiction on me as fact.

And then to top it all off he cautions me for being the cause of his inaccuracies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Con Gorozidis]

why do some posters try to make it about them!

I hold the opinion that Gt is a bad bloke. An old school misogynist arrogrant prick.

i had to laugh when he said he didnt think RL was senior coach material because he was "too shy" and was not "the personality type" - after all said GT - I played with him at Fitzroy and knew him vey well (albeit for 1 season)

what old school 70's conservative outer suburban alpha males like GT dont get is that guys like RL arent shy and probably didnt chat with him because they thought he was a wanker. While RL would have been hanging out and chatting with Roosy et al. Because RL would have steered clear of floggers like GT - GT in his own arrogance and lack of self awareness or any broad mindedness would have attributed this to "shyness".

RL brain "theres that GT toss-bag - Ill steer clear of him or pretend ive got nothing to say".

GT brain "he doesnt talk to me - he must be shy"

[Teflon]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

Ditto times infinity.

I think GT is just one of those high profile individuals (like Whitlam, Howard, Shane Warne, Julia Gillard, Hillary Clinton to name but a few) to whom some members of the public take such a violent dislike that they become somewhat obsessed with them.

To be fair to the obsessed GT haters, the man is an arrogant pr@#k who tends to blow his own trumpet and doesn't suffer those whom he considers to be fools gladly. This is what has always made him such good journalistic fodder and why he has been able to make something of a career for himself in the media since he stopped coaching.

Of course, there is a theory (which am I right in thinking that the poster has now confirmed himself?) that Teflon is actually Rod Butterss's son. This might be a partial explanation for his own obsession with GT.

As for sRr, I think we are dealing with someone who can't stand being called to account for anything he has ever written, and hence needs a lot of writing space to try to untangle himself from the various knots of reasoning into which he has tied himself: at present, his endless carry on in 2007 and 2008 that GT had supposedly ruined our playing list.

I don't expect these two posters to stop any time soon. And, while they carry on with their nonsense, I and others will continue to call them to account.

In the words of dad.

"what a sad, sad man you are".

best say nothing if you're just gonna be silly...

If Im a "GT Hater" (more lies cause Ive been very complimentary for the good things he did) - Im just balanced and you dont like that.

You on the other hand have non-stopped slagged Lyon, then admitted you were wrong and are still looking stupid. Ah well....not much changes I guess....

[Teflon]

why do some posters try to make it about them!

I hold the opinion that Gt is a bad bloke. An old school misogynist arrogrant prick.

i had to laugh when he said he didnt think RL was senior coach material because he was "too shy" and was not "the personality type" - after all said GT - I played with him at Fitzroy and knew him vey well (albeit for 1 season)

what old school 70's conservative outer suburban alpha males like GT dont get is that guys like RL arent shy and probably didnt chat with him because they thought he was a wanker. While RL would have been hanging out and chatting with Roosy et al. Because RL would have steered clear of floggers like GT - GT in his own arrogance and lack of self awareness or any broad mindedness would have attributed this to "shyness".

RL brain "theres that GT toss-bag - Ill steer clear of him or pretend ive got nothing to say".

GT brain "he doesnt talk to me - he must be shy"

very well put Con.

[matrix]

sooooooooo



whats this thread about??
ohhhhh....

[claystreet]

whats this thread about??
ohhhhh....

Its about a whoa is me someone who has nothing to do with the STKFC and i believe it should be in the general forum not on the saints forum.

HE IS NOT A SAINT

[Shaggy]

whats this thread about??
ohhhhh....

Its about a whoa is me someone who has nothing to do with the STKFC and i believe it should be in the general forum not on the saints forum.

HE IS NOT A SAINT

Actually you are the most wrong. GT, RL, RB are all Saints.

And we would not be where we are today without any of them which is my point.

Should supporters have a right to boo present Saints or past? Criticize yes but denigrate whenever they can I don't think so. Its not right.

We are a family IMO.

[Shaggy]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

I love being 4-0. Wait till we are 12-0.

We will lose at some time. But I will not be the one blaming when it happens. But I will have a go at the ones who want to throw the blame around because they cannot accept it.

[saintsRrising]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

I love being 4-0. Wait till we are 12-0.

We will lose at some time. But I will not be the one blaming when it happens. But I will have a go at the ones who want to throw the blame around because they cannot accept it.

Gotta laugh at that...last season I think it was down to a very very small number that were not calling for Lyon to be sacked...and I was one of the very very few.

Shaggy you really do have little compunction in making statements, or implying things, which are just not so. As if I would be the one to "turn" on Lyon when we lose a game!!!!

Not that I agree with 100% of what Teflon writes,,,,but Teflon was another who was behind Lyon when our win-loss record was not lookng too healthy.

Good to see that everyone seems to be on the Lyonwagon now.

[TassieJones]

greatest newspaper headline ever.

i love it how journos sneak in subtle stuff like that.

as for the story, meh who cares.

[Shaggy]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

I love being 4-0. Wait till we are 12-0.

We will lose at some time. But I will not be the one blaming when it happens. But I will have a go at the ones who want to throw the blame around because they cannot accept it.

Gotta laugh at that...last season I think it was down to a very very small number that were not calling for Lyon to be sacked...and I was one of the very very few.

Not that I agree with 100% of what Teflon writes,,,,but Teflon was another who was beind Lyon when our win-loss record was not lookng too healthy.

Good to see that everyone seem to be on the Lyonwagon now.

Have a laugh then. But I never called for RL's sacking.

IMO RL's coaching in 2007 was shocking. But I do understand why he coached how he coached. But the real test of RL was whether he would change which he has done.

I showed Tef the maths test Round 1.

Its all about getting the best out of the players. I did call it ... ask Tef (my dispute with Tef at the time was he thought we didn't have the players... I was just showing him at their best we had a great team which actually could go 4-0).

[saintsRrising]

IMO RL's coaching in 2007 was shocking. .

Well there there you go...we all have different opinions.

Personally I thought he was very busy reversing our downward trend and teaching our players a different way to play.

[saintsRrising]

Have a laugh then. But I never called for RL's sacking.

.

Who said you did?

My reply was because you were inferring that as soon as we had a loss this year that I would be casting blame on Lyon.

Whereas I have been a staunch Lyon supporter since he started.
sure like many here you are not 100% agreeing on everything.
But by and large I have beena fan.

It always seemed to me that Lyon hada good vision of the team he wanted..and how he wanted them to play.

In 2009...it is all coming together.

But what he was striving for was obvious from the start.

[Shaggy]

IMO RL's coaching in 2007 was shocking. .

Well there there you go...we all have different opinions.

Personally I thought he was very busy reversing our downward trend and teaching our players a different way to play.

We nearly disagree in everything.

IMO 2007 was merely a learning lesson for RL ... not the players.

Lets wait for RL's book.

[saintsRrising]

We nearly disagree in everything.

IMO 2007 was merely a learning lesson for RL ... not the players.

Lets wait for RL's book.

We do then...for what I saw many of our players had little idea of how to play when the opposition had the ball..or at least when good opposition had the ball.


Some like McQualter resisted...have a read of the interviews....before in 2008 he wised up and started playing for team rather than for self.

Personally I reckon that players like Mini learnt a lot.

Though Lyon was learning about our players no doubt...and yes about himself to....and for the evolving game that AFL is...

One are where Lyon was learning was that he had to crack the whip more...and that probably took till 2008 with the dropping of Dal and Milne....despite that at the previous B+F Roo got up and told all that the team where not on board the bus...and needed to.

So despite the call of our captain..many players did not heed his call till mid-2008.

[Teflon]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

I love being 4-0. Wait till we are 12-0.

We will lose at some time. But I will not be the one blaming when it happens. But I will have a go at the ones who want to throw the blame around because they cannot accept it.

Gotta laugh at that...last season I think it was down to a very very small number that were not calling for Lyon to be sacked...and I was one of the very very few.

Not that I agree with 100% of what Teflon writes,,,,but Teflon was another who was beind Lyon when our win-loss record was not lookng too healthy.

Good to see that everyone seem to be on the Lyonwagon now.

Have a laugh then. But I never called for RL's sacking.

IMO RL's coaching in 2007 was shocking. But I do understand why he coached how he coached. But the real test of RL was whether he would change which he has done.

I showed Tef the maths test Round 1.

Its all about getting the best out of the players. I did call it ... ask Tef (my dispute with Tef at the time was he thought we didn't have the players... I was just showing him at their best we had a great team which actually could go 4-0).

shaggy why make up lies? - its not just me saying it but also SR.......seriously you need to stop playing with the margins (and anything else you can get your hands on and fess up).

YOU were one of THE MAIN Lyon bashers we had - now your on here telling us all "it wont be me pointing the finger...." - now that is funny Shag.

As for proving to Tef we had the players to be 4-0 - I think you need to understand the context of our team when Lyon took over to what it is now - sure the essential core remains, but so much experience (and awesome players) have also left. Lyon, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, hasnt just got the core playing well (Riewoldt - our best player up tilllast week hadnt done much tbh)but he has transformed this team - added genuine RUCKMAN, added much needed DEPTH, bought through some solid rookies...and maybe a gun...time will tell on some...and certainly had a massive hand in rejuvinating "training services" (whatever that is.....).

Some have said GT "wouldve done all this too" - reality is GT had 5 years to do it, didnt do it for rucks and couldnt pull "training services" together - even though he oversaw it and had final say on appointmnets????...

Theres always , woulda, coulda, shoulda but I prefer Lyons "did" better.

Now its early days stil IMHO - we look good now but I think many are holding back on all out euphoria till we prove ourselves against some stiff opposition - I am too but I do like the signs.

Please desist from lies, half truths and in general using my name to butcher a point - you really dont need me for that last bit...

[Shaggy]

We nearly disagree in everything.

IMO 2007 was merely a learning lesson for RL ... not the players.

Lets wait for RL's book.

We do then...for what I saw many of our players had little idea of how to play when the opposition had the ball..or at least when good opposition had the ball.


Some like McQualter resisted...have a read on the interviews....before in 2008 he wised up and started playing for team rather than for self.

Personally I reckon that players like Mini learnt a lot.

Though Lyon was learning about our players no doubt...and yes about himself to....and for the evolving game that AFL is...

RL has brought alot to the team and they have responded ... otherwise we would not be where we are today .

Mini was always defensive but I can understand RL brought it to a new level. RL's fault has been in attack and mids ... he was too defensive. No choice now because we are bust and the board needs us to start generating revenue. Regardless if RL wasn't the man on field the lads would not respond.

They have responded.

RL is the man and subject to limited injuries ... this year.

[Shaggy]

Why do some people on here find themselves obsessed with arguing all things GT??

sRs, shaggy, Teflon..we are 4-0 and with a challenging month of footy ahead...what on Earth makes you so obsessed with dragging up old old OLD arguments that have been done to death 100,000 times...that end up getting personal and off-track every single time?

Is it really worth the grief?? really??

I love being 4-0. Wait till we are 12-0.

We will lose at some time. But I will not be the one blaming when it happens. But I will have a go at the ones who want to throw the blame around because they cannot accept it.

Gotta laugh at that...last season I think it was down to a very very small number that were not calling for Lyon to be sacked...and I was one of the very very few.

Not that I agree with 100% of what Teflon writes,,,,but Teflon was another who was beind Lyon when our win-loss record was not lookng too healthy.

Good to see that everyone seem to be on the Lyonwagon now.

Have a laugh then. But I never called for RL's sacking.

IMO RL's coaching in 2007 was shocking. But I do understand why he coached how he coached. But the real test of RL was whether he would change which he has done.

I showed Tef the maths test Round 1.

Its all about getting the best out of the players. I did call it ... ask Tef (my dispute with Tef at the time was he thought we didn't have the players... I was just showing him at their best we had a great team which actually could go 4-0).

shaggy why make up lies? - its not just me saying it but also SR.......seriously you need to stop playing with the margins (and anything else you can get your hands on and fess up).

YOU were one of THE MAIN Lyon bashers we had - now your on here telling us all "it wont be me pointing the finger...." - now that is funny Shag.

As for proving to Tef we had the players to be 4-0 - I think you need to understand the context of our team when Lyon took over to what it is now - sure the essential core remains, but so much experience (and awesome players) have also left. Lyon, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, hasnt just got the core playing well (Riewoldt - our best player up tilllast week hadnt done much tbh)but he has transformed this team - added genuine RUCKMAN, added much needed DEPTH, bought through some solid rookies...and maybe a gun...time will tell on some...and certainly had a massive hand in rejuvinating "training services" (whatever that is.....).

Some have said GT "wouldve done all this too" - reality is GT had 5 years to do it, didnt do it for rucks and couldnt pull "training services" together - even though he oversaw it and had final say on appointmnets????...

Theres always , woulda, coulda, shoulda but I prefer Lyons "did" better.

Now its early days stil IMHO - we look good now but I think many are holding back on all out euphoria till we prove ourselves against some stiff opposition - I am too but I do like the signs.

Please desist from lies, half truths and in general using my name to butcher a point - you really dont need me for that last bit...

Tef are you stalking .

As for lies then get the maths test back ... it was simple maths rather than rambling . (it had a bit of horse racing in it as well -by the way happy valley is on currently ... no doubt with your analytical ability I shouldn't digress you)

[saintsRrising]

RL's fault has been in attack and mids ... he was too defensive. No choice now because we are bust and the board needs us to start generating revenue. Regardless if RL wasn't the man on field the lads would not respond. .

Quite frankly IMO that is utter rubbish....putting our current success down to the Saints needing to generate revenue is laughable.....and implying that it is due to some recent Board direction is completely unfair on Lyon and is not the situation at all...


Our current improvement is due to what Lyon has been working hard to achieve since he arrived,,,,whether that has been recruiting GOOD ruckman or it getting the players to play as he wants them too...

They have responded.



RL's rebuttal...from an interview written at the time that many on this forum were calling for him to be sacked..

ST KILDA coach Ross Lyon has ferociously rebutted claims his team is a defensively minded bore. He said it was "mischievous" and "garbage" to suggest his team played lock-down football similar to the notoriously defensive game style of the Sydney Swans.

"Anyone who says we are playing lock-down footy is kidding themselves," Lyon said.

"We don't play lock-down footy, we are lucky to target one player a week. That's inaccurate."

Asked who was driving the perception, he said: "I don't know, who's in the media that's perpetuating it?"

Grant Thomas?

"No, I don't think it is. But I think there is a perception we play like the Swans. What a load of garbage. It couldn't be further from the truth. They have 100 stoppages a week and we have 60."


Ask any (of my) players. I'd think they'd say in the first half of last year, yeah, but since then, no way, impossible."

Thomas, who was sacked by the Saints and replaced by Lyon at the start of last year, yesterday inflamed the Saints debate by asking: "Ross, what is your game style?"

He said the Saints under Lyon were too defensive and content to have a "Mexican stand-off" with inferior opposition.

Lyon said his method was simple: "There are three phases - contest, attack and defence and play them all equally."

Letting his team down, he said, was winning the contested ball.

"There's a common theme. When you can't get on top in the midfield, you don't score that heavily," Lyon said.

"Our issue is we haven't been winning the ball consistently in contested ball. It's been swinging in games.

"Why have the Bulldogs improved? The contested ball and their tackling."

The outside criticism of the ninth-placed Saints (3-3) centres on goals kicked, and Lyon says it is unfair to compare his 2008 team to the one that Thomas coached in 2006.

"There is a perception and romance that St Kilda used to go out and kick 14, 15 and 16 goals every week in 2006.

"Well, let me give you this fact - they kicked 10 goals or less . . . how many times do you think? . . . They kicked 10 goals or less eight times," Lyon said.

"In 2007, we too kicked 10 goals or less eight times, but seven of those were up to Round 11. So I think it is mischievous to start going down that track."

He conceded his first 11 games in charge were "indefensible", but his team had made positive adjustments since.

"In our last 17 games, we have kicked less than 12 goals four times," he said.

"Up to Round 11 last year, we kicked less than 10 goals seven times.

"I said at the time it was indefensible and we weren't happy and then we fixed our ball use and out of the last 11 we kicked 12 goals or more 10 times.

"I've got it here in front of me . . . and we've played six games this year. We kicked 6.15 (against Sydney), 19 against Carlton, 13 against the Western Bulldogs, but it dried up and they smacked us, and then went 13.16 against Geelong and kicked three or four out on the full, and we had 55 inside 50s.

"Then we kicked 18.15 against Essendon and nine on the weekend and we blew the first quarter.

"So in our last 17 games we've kicked more than 12 goals 13 times - is that lock-down footy?"

Lyon also offered statistics that showed his team allowed more uncontested possession than Sydney (182), Western Bulldogs (226) and Richmond (227).

"We are 250 and ranked ninth," he said. "We don't play lock-down footy . . . we rank eighth at 49 inside 50s . . . deal with the facts."



"We haven't wavered in our belief we can match it with anyone, but talk's cheap. We've got to get four quarters together."

I have repeated the above now as Lyon clearly back then set out what the TEAM needed to achive....and this is what is now being achieved....and this is not due to any so called implied recent Board directive.

[saint66au]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exhibit A your honour..always makes me laugh that you are all as pure as the driven snow in your own eyes and its always someone else who starts the argument

*shakes head in amazement*