Saints be praised - Herald Sun Article 20/3

[Mr Magic]

What constitutes a 'gun kid'?

[rodgerfox]

What constitutes a 'gun kid'?

I guess it's open to interpretation. But in the spirit of the debate, it'd be a kid that would play a key part in us being better than we currently are.

ie. if they were in our side, we'd have played in a GF last year.

Apparently Lyon is doing everything perfectly, it's just that GT let him down by not having any star kids ready to go for him.


That doesn't really make sense though, considering Geelong only have 1 that was taken whilst GT was coaching us.

Yet they went from 9th to 1st.


Dare I say that 1 young kid developed or brought to the club when they were 9th didn't make that big a difference.
And dare I say the same would apply to us.

[Mr Magic]

Yes it is open to interpretation.

I could and would argue that any kid drafted by an AFL Club would be considered a 'gun kid' by his peers and AFL recruiters. I don't believe a single kid is drafted if they are thought of as 'duds'. It's just that some develop into great players, some develop into GOPs, and some don't develop into anything and are discarded.


Furthermore I don't think that the argument that GT didn't bring enough 'gun kids' to the Club is what is being proposed.

From what I've read consistently on here it is the lack of youth that has developed since the 2003 draft that is being complained about by many.

The facts are simple.
Barring injury concerns, are there any players who were drafted top 5 between 2000 and 2006 who haven't had significant careers?
It is obvious to everyone that the 'strike rate' of drafting kids is better the higher/lower (depends which term you use) your pick is.

The further into the draft the 'strike rate' diminshes, whilst there will always be some that in hindsight turn out to be absolute bargains.

Since 2003 we haven't had the luxury of too many Top 5 picks and have had to rely on developing the kids we did draft.

That seems to me to be the criticism of GT on this issue, not that we didn't get 'gun kids' but we as a Club have failed to develop enough young talent.

[rodgerfox]

Yes it is open to interpretation.

I could and would argue that any kid drafted by an AFL Club would be considered a 'gun kid' by his peers and AFL recruiters. I don't believe a single kid is drafted if they are thought of as 'duds'. It's just that some develop into great players, some develop into GOPs, and some don't develop into anything and are discarded.


Furthermore I don't think that the argument that GT didn't bring enough 'gun kids' to the Club is what is being proposed.

From what I've read consistently on here it is the lack of youth that has developed since the 2003 draft that is being complained about by many.

The facts are simple.
Barring injury concerns, are there any players who were drafted top 5 between 2000 and 2006 who haven't had significant careers?
It is obvious to everyone that the 'strike rate' of drafting kids is better the higher/lower (depends which term you use) your pick is.

The further into the draft the 'strike rate' diminshes, whilst there will always be some that in hindsight turn out to be absolute bargains.

Since 2003 we haven't had the luxury of too many Top 5 picks and have had to rely on developing the kids we did draft.

That seems to me to be the criticism of GT on this issue, not that we didn't get 'gun kids' but we as a Club have failed to develop enough young talent.

Fair points, however what you're arguing or raising is very different to what the 'I backed Lyon so now I have to find excuses for our shiit performance so who better to blame than GT' crew are arguing.

[markp]

Fair points, however what you're arguing or raising is very different to what the 'I backed Lyon so now I have to find excuses for our shiit performance so who better to blame than GT' crew are arguing.

That would make a good 'crew' t-shirt....

What would yours say?

[Mr Magic]

Fair points, however what you're arguing or raising is very different to what the 'I backed Lyon so now I have to find excuses for our shiit performance so who better to blame than GT' crew are arguing.

That would make a good 'crew' t-shirt....

What would yours say?

Something along the lines of:-

"Whatever it is,
I'm against it!"

[Shaggy]

Taking out my duplications the underperformers from last year were: Gram, Dal, Kosi, X, Gilbert, Fiora, Bakes, G-Train, Fish, MG & Goose.
Raph should really be included because he only played well at the end.

I would also add in Ball (still struggling with injury), Lenny (not one of his best seasons), BJ (still recovering from the 2007 injury), Armitage (it is reasonable to expect more from a top 10 draft pick in his second season), Joey (can surely do better) and Schneider (who certainly didn't live up to the expectations of most posters on here).

When you look at things from this perspective, last year we were a V8 engine firing on 6 cylinders. Yet we still made the top 4!!

Given all that, I'm actually pretty optimistic about 2009. From what we have seen in the pre-season, it would seem to me that there is a good chance of BJ, Ball, Joey, Baker, Dal, Kosi, Gilbert, Raph and X delivering a fair bit more than they did in 2008 and some chance of an improvement from Gram, Lenny, Gardi and Fish. And also possibly a continued improvement from Mini, Steven and Geary. And (fingers crossed) we might even see Goose, Armo, Schneider and Gwilt produce something to write home about.

If a significant number of these expectations are realised, and if Riewoldt and Max can get over their early season injuries, then I reckon we could surprise everyone and go all the way!!

I hope this feeling of optimism lasts beyond about 7.15 pm on Saturday night!!

I am glad you see it. I think it is obvious.

As for the border lines:

Ball - if he really is over his physical problems ... regardless I enormously respect what he does for us, he gets the ball out ... our gutsiest player ever IMO injured or not

Lenny - I think he is at his peak ... he is being smacked left right and centre - he is better than last year but time is against him as a targeted man

BJ - who knows? Last year he far surpassed what anyone would have predicted. A monty for the brownlow if he improves as one does one year after injury. Than again Fish played an exceptional year after injury and has struggled since.

Monty and Schneider ? - Is there improvement? Still good players.

With Ray, Armo and Geary coming ahead and the above and the underperformers from 2008 we seriously have a big chance this year.

IMO RL doesn't have to create miracles. He merely needs to get our list playing its best and with minimal injuries which we have been promised

[Teflon]

Yes it is open to interpretation.

I could and would argue that any kid drafted by an AFL Club would be considered a 'gun kid' by his peers and AFL recruiters. I don't believe a single kid is drafted if they are thought of as 'duds'. It's just that some develop into great players, some develop into GOPs, and some don't develop into anything and are discarded.


Furthermore I don't think that the argument that GT didn't bring enough 'gun kids' to the Club is what is being proposed.

From what I've read consistently on here it is the lack of youth that has developed since the 2003 draft that is being complained about by many.

The facts are simple.
Barring injury concerns, are there any players who were drafted top 5 between 2000 and 2006 who haven't had significant careers?
It is obvious to everyone that the 'strike rate' of drafting kids is better the higher/lower (depends which term you use) your pick is.

The further into the draft the 'strike rate' diminshes, whilst there will always be some that in hindsight turn out to be absolute bargains.

Since 2003 we haven't had the luxury of too many Top 5 picks and have had to rely on developing the kids we did draft.

That seems to me to be the criticism of GT on this issue, not that we didn't get 'gun kids' but we as a Club have failed to develop enough young talent.

Great post Magic and again you hit it on the head.

It so dissapointing when trying to talk footy that people simply make it up as they go - and when cornered and looking stupid in an argument they lash out with silly, trite comments. I guess its all about them.

Magic nailed you Dodg (has numerous times Ive read) why not just say "ok sorry I misunderstood the topic"......I wont think any less of you. I couldnt.

As for the footy geniuses telling us '"all Lyon has to do is get the best out of his list"....seriously.....this is that basic and obvious for EVERY AFL coach doesnt it go without saying?

Ahh...its been a tough, long off season....

[Teflon]

Taking out my duplications the underperformers from last year were: Gram, Dal, Kosi, X, Gilbert, Fiora, Bakes, G-Train, Fish, MG & Goose.

Raph should really be included because he only played well at the end.

The year before it was many more.


Time for you to stop looking back at GT and 2004/5. RL would have killed that team with his 2007 attitude. We were a power team not endurance.

So from last years "shaggy underperformers" we have:

X - been injured since birth
Baker - injured last year
Maguire - injured last year
Gehrig - played 4 games, retired.
Kosi - has not prouced 1 consistent season yet under ANY coach.
L Fishr - could not make the 1's...would have been traded had it been workabke Id wager...
Raph - see X/Kosi for injury/consistency of performance.
Gardiner - injuries again last year.

Seriously I question your measure of "underperformer"...surely it means only assessing those players who could even get on the paddock????

As for Lyon killing our "power team" of 2004/2005 (complete with 10 game streak video - Geelong must marvel at that after their run... )....I suppose you are right.

While we were busy being a "power side" attempting a 'poor mans Brisbane game plan' - Lyon was instrumental in steering Sydney to a flag...

Just maybe there's something in his 'endurance' theory?

[gringo]

The saints are easy to compare to geelong but the saints under GT had alot of their talent already aging like Harves, Gtrain, Hamill, Peckett, etc. while these guys were running around for us we topped up and apart from the rewards from our draft reaping years when we got an injection of youth. geelong pretty much had a bigger spread of young players coming through together. In short their best were developing while our best were fading. We are in a similar position again and need to get games into the young guys and develop them eg Geary, Armo, Eddy Heyne, Steven etc. to have another tilt at a flag with a good aging core. Hopefully RL can keep rebuilding on the hop like Sydney did.

[Shaggy]

Taking out my duplications the underperformers from last year were: Gram, Dal, Kosi, X, Gilbert, Fiora, Bakes, G-Train, Fish, MG & Goose.

Raph should really be included because he only played well at the end.

The year before it was many more.


Time for you to stop looking back at GT and 2004/5. RL would have killed that team with his 2007 attitude. We were a power team not endurance.

So from last years "shaggy underperformers" we have:

X - been injured since birth
Baker - injured last year
Maguire - injured last year
Gehrig - played 4 games, retired.
Kosi - has not prouced 1 consistent season yet under ANY coach.
L Fishr - could not make the 1's...would have been traded had it been workabke Id wager...
Raph - see X/Kosi for injury/consistency of performance.
Gardiner - injuries again last year.

Seriously I question your measure of "underperformer"...surely it means only assessing those players who could even get on the paddock????

As for Lyon killing our "power team" of 2004/2005 (complete with 10 game streak video - Geelong must marvel at that after their run... )....I suppose you are right.

While we were busy being a "power side" attempting a 'poor mans Brisbane game plan' - Lyon was instrumental in steering Sydney to a flag...

Just maybe there's something in his 'endurance' theory?

I have no problem with RL's endurance theory. It just doesn't work for all players (and clearly a lot of important players on our list).

RL should have taken a team on from the bottom to build the team he needs to meet the game plan he thinks works.

You just don't seem to understand the difference.

Paul Roos devised his plan around the skills of his team. His team now plays nearly the opposite to how Paul Roos played as a player.

On the other hand Geary, Eddy & Fish are our best mid distance runners.

Does it really give you a lot of confidence to base a game plan which suits them best?

Regardless I don't care because IMO RL is changing. Learning and experimenting is a pre-requisite to becoming good (IMO).

But we really only have a couple of years left for RL to get his act together (IMO).

[Teflon]

Taking out my duplications the underperformers from last year were: Gram, Dal, Kosi, X, Gilbert, Fiora, Bakes, G-Train, Fish, MG & Goose.

Raph should really be included because he only played well at the end.

The year before it was many more.


Time for you to stop looking back at GT and 2004/5. RL would have killed that team with his 2007 attitude. We were a power team not endurance.

So from last years "shaggy underperformers" we have:

X - been injured since birth
Baker - injured last year
Maguire - injured last year
Gehrig - played 4 games, retired.
Kosi - has not prouced 1 consistent season yet under ANY coach.
L Fishr - could not make the 1's...would have been traded had it been workabke Id wager...
Raph - see X/Kosi for injury/consistency of performance.
Gardiner - injuries again last year.

Seriously I question your measure of "underperformer"...surely it means only assessing those players who could even get on the paddock????

As for Lyon killing our "power team" of 2004/2005 (complete with 10 game streak video - Geelong must marvel at that after their run... )....I suppose you are right.

While we were busy being a "power side" attempting a 'poor mans Brisbane game plan' - Lyon was instrumental in steering Sydney to a flag...

Just maybe there's something in his 'endurance' theory?

I have no problem with RL's endurance theory. It just doesn't work for all players (and clearly a lot of important players on our list).

RL should have taken a team on from the bottom to build the team he needs to meet the game plan he thinks works.

You just don't seem to understand the difference.

Paul Roos devised his plan around the skills of his team. His team now plays nearly the opposite to how Paul Roos played as a player.

On the other hand Geary, Eddy & Fish are our best mid distance runners.

Does it really give you a lot of confidence to base a game plan which suits them best?

Regardless I don't care because IMO RL is changing. Learning and experimenting is a pre-requisite to becoming good (IMO).

But we really only have a couple of years left for RL to get his act together (IMO).

So according to your logic that noone gets bar you...

we are just a "shed" full of fast qtr horses being dumbed down by a Lyon game plan built round Eddy, Geary and Fisher?

Honestly you think Lyons building a game plan round 2 rookie kids and a player he almost traded?

Your delusional.

Oh by the way as for this "super fast race horse strength" team we have....I reckon a guy by the name of Riewoldt doesnt have a bad tank for endurance? (shame hes not a rookie...otherwise we'd build a game plan round him)

[Shaggy]

So according to your logic that noone gets bar you...

we are just a "shed" full of fast qtr horses being dumbed down by a Lyon game plan built round Eddy, Geary and Fisher?

Honestly you think Lyons building a game plan round 2 rookie kids and a player he almost traded?

Your delusional.

Oh by the way as for this "super fast race horse strength" team we have....I reckon a guy by the name of Riewoldt doesnt have a bad tank for endurance? (shame hes not a rookie...otherwise we'd build a game plan round him)

If you want to put it in horse racing terms yes I do believe that some of our players are/were (when on our list) suited up to the mile – mile and half but would never get the Melbourne Cup no matter what training you put into them.

Doesn’t mean they were not champions just because they are ordinary over the longer distance.

Riewoldt is a great runner. Not surprising he has performed under RL. My concern is the minority of players that haven’t. It’s the minority that have held the Saints back IMO. Did the Hawks and Cats have 11 under performing senior players last year? Maybe 5 due to injuries is the norm.

In 2007 we had half our team under performing. RL was extreme in 2007.
I am under no delusion (but you appear to be) that some-one like G-Train who was a 100 meter sprinter will some-how thrive running 50 meters up and down the ground every few minutes.

And I don’t believe RL dumbed out in 2007 because his getting 17 players behind the ball was deliberate. RL sacrificed players and their form to get the mix to play and run the way he believes will win the premiership. I strongly disagree with the strategy, but I understand it.

Unlike you I think we are serious contenders for the flag this year.I do believe in the window with a few years either way. I think we are now at our max and RL now has a list which suits him so we are right in there.

Back to horse racing I suspect your rationale for a front runner you backed losing in a fast run race would be due to its lack of “mental toughnessâ€

[Teflon]

So according to your logic that noone gets bar you...

we are just a "shed" full of fast qtr horses being dumbed down by a Lyon game plan built round Eddy, Geary and Fisher?

Honestly you think Lyons building a game plan round 2 rookie kids and a player he almost traded?

Your delusional.

Oh by the way as for this "super fast race horse strength" team we have....I reckon a guy by the name of Riewoldt doesnt have a bad tank for endurance? (shame hes not a rookie...otherwise we'd build a game plan round him)

If you want to put it in horse racing terms yes I do believe that some of our players are/were (when on our list) suited up to the mile – mile and half but would never get the Melbourne Cup no matter what training you put into them.

Doesn’t mean they were not champions just because they are ordinary over the longer distance.

You dont win flags if you cant go the distance - Geelong and now Hawthorn show us that. You also fail miserably in Finals attempting to be a super "race horse" attack team with no defensive side (see Essendon). You clearly fail to grasp that or dont want to. Thank god Lyon doesnt.

Riewoldt is a great runner. Not surprising he has performed under RL. My concern is the minority of players that haven’t. It’s the minority that have held the Saints back IMO. Did the Hawks and Cats have 11 under performing senior players last year? Maybe 5 due to injuries is the norm.

Minorities have always held us back - they did under Thomas...whats your point? are you again banging on about your "11" under performers you conjured up including players past their best and including players that have not even performed in 5 years nor gotten on the park due to injury for the last 3?......good "list" that one....very balanced assessment....do you do Tax claims also?...

In 2007 we had half our team under performing. RL was extreme in 2007.
I am under no delusion (but you appear to be) that some-one like G-Train who was a 100 meter sprinter will some-how thrive running 50 meters up and down the ground every few minutes.

And I don’t believe RL dumbed out in 2007 because his getting 17 players behind the ball was deliberate. RL sacrificed players and their form to get the mix to play and run the way he believes will win the premiership. I strongly disagree with the strategy, but I understand it.

2007 was Lyons first year as coach. I didnt expect miracles and am not stupid enought to believe that adjustments to game plans and the rapport that only time can develop between layers/coach would happen overnight. You obviously feel Lyon just needed to come in "pat the racehorse" and off we go.

yep you're delusional.

Back to horse racing I suspect your rationale for a front runner you backed losing in a fast run race would be due to its lack of “mental toughnessâ€

[Shaggy]

Id never suggest mental toughness as an issue for a failed front running horse when clearly everyone could see the horse had issues with its "belief cloud".

That aside I do feel you believe our current side is truly "Fine Cotton"....where I suspect we've merely tarted up some of the cracks since 04 (especially in depth/player develpment/conditioning and that these came home to roost under Thomas.

The test for Lyon is can he maintain a good core AND bring the depth upto scratch - Ive expected this take time. You wanted tosimply slap another coat of paint on and send em out again (possibly still trying to play like Brisbane 6 years ago.....with Blake as our ruckman).

Lol. Actually I backed Harbour Gold and won against Fine Cotton. I must have been 16 at the time. Its great to feel a part of history.

[Shaggy]

The test for Lyon is can he maintain a good core AND bring the depth upto scratch - Ive expected this take time. You wanted tosimply slap another coat of paint on and send em out again (possibly still trying to play like Brisbane 6 years ago.....with Blake as our ruckman).

Basic maths Tef.

=+11 - Last year we had 11 senior players under perform which is not acceptable. The coaches will focus on making them perform.

=-1 We have lost Banger who is a loss.

=+2 But we have kids who are coming up. We need and should expect at least 2 a year to cross the line and make a difference. This year IMO Ray is definite and Armooo (IMO). Geary and Eddy are close IMO. So we should have 2-4 players making a real difference.

=- 5 is an acceptable level of injuries on a weekly basis so long as its not Roo, Chips, Lenny, BJ, Max and Ball.

= 7 player improvement.

So yes I really think we are up with the Hawks and Cats this year. No need to defend RL. He should seriously be focused on the flag this year given fourth last year with one third of our team under performing.

Forget your Shite and excuses.

We are negative net assets, negative cash flow and loss making.

Time for RL to prove himself right – if he f**** up he may end up like GT and have to do everything himself (or alternatively he will bail out if he is not real).

[Teflon]

The test for Lyon is can he maintain a good core AND bring the depth upto scratch - Ive expected this take time. You wanted tosimply slap another coat of paint on and send em out again (possibly still trying to play like Brisbane 6 years ago.....with Blake as our ruckman).

Basic maths Tef.

=+11 - Last year we had 11 senior players under perform which is not acceptable. The coaches will focus on making them perform.

=-1 We have lost Banger who is a loss.

=+2 But we have kids who are coming up. We need and should expect at least 2 a year to cross the line and make a difference. This year IMO Ray is definite and Armooo (IMO). Geary and Eddy are close IMO. So we should have 2-4 players making a real difference.

=- 5 is an acceptable level of injuries on a weekly basis so long as its not Roo, Chips, Lenny, BJ, Max and Ball.

= 7 player improvement.

So yes I really think we are up with the Hawks and Cats this year. No need to defend RL. He should seriously be focused on the flag this year given fourth last year with one third of our team under performing.

Forget your Shite and excuses.

We are negative net assets, negative cash flow and loss making.

Time for RL to prove himself right – if he f**** up he may end up like GT and have to do everything himself (or alternatively he will bail out if he is not real).

Yeah I just watched Geelong/Hawthorn...and yep we are right on their hammer...I mean Gwilt, Jones, Mqualter hot on their tails.........they must be sh!!tting their pants...

Your learnt maths at school - well done.

With your knowledge of "backing winners" Id suggest your gonna need all the maths help you can get to help with your odds.

Your so delusional its a laugh.

[Shaggy]

The test for Lyon is can he maintain a good core AND bring the depth upto scratch - Ive expected this take time. You wanted tosimply slap another coat of paint on and send em out again (possibly still trying to play like Brisbane 6 years ago.....with Blake as our ruckman).

Basic maths Tef.

=+11 - Last year we had 11 senior players under perform which is not acceptable. The coaches will focus on making them perform.

=-1 We have lost Banger who is a loss.

=+2 But we have kids who are coming up. We need and should expect at least 2 a year to cross the line and make a difference. This year IMO Ray is definite and Armooo (IMO). Geary and Eddy are close IMO. So we should have 2-4 players making a real difference.

=- 5 is an acceptable level of injuries on a weekly basis so long as its not Roo, Chips, Lenny, BJ, Max and Ball.

= 7 player improvement.

So yes I really think we are up with the Hawks and Cats this year. No need to defend RL. He should seriously be focused on the flag this year given fourth last year with one third of our team under performing.

Forget your Shite and excuses.

We are negative net assets, negative cash flow and loss making.

Time for RL to prove himself right – if he f**** up he may end up like GT and have to do everything himself (or alternatively he will bail out if he is not real).

Yeah I just watched Geelong/Hawthorn...and yep we are right on their hammer...I mean Gwilt, Jones, Mqualter hot on their tails.........they must be sh!!tting their pants...

Your learnt maths at school - well done.

With your knowledge of "backing winners" Id suggest your gonna need all the maths help you can get to help with your odds.

Your so delusional its a laugh.

Well I enjoyed the game against the Swans.

What I saw was Roo & Chips ave. Lenny wasn't there.

Our top 3 did not win us the match.

The rest of the team stepped up.

We did see one third of the team to play to their ability when some-times they have gone missing under RL.

Even if you do not understand it yes IMO we have 27 players worthy of premiership side. But if with injuries/under performers we have to dig deeper - no will not win - no different to GT days.

[Teflon]

The test for Lyon is can he maintain a good core AND bring the depth upto scratch - Ive expected this take time. You wanted tosimply slap another coat of paint on and send em out again (possibly still trying to play like Brisbane 6 years ago.....with Blake as our ruckman).

Basic maths Tef.

=+11 - Last year we had 11 senior players under perform which is not acceptable. The coaches will focus on making them perform.

=-1 We have lost Banger who is a loss.

=+2 But we have kids who are coming up. We need and should expect at least 2 a year to cross the line and make a difference. This year IMO Ray is definite and Armooo (IMO). Geary and Eddy are close IMO. So we should have 2-4 players making a real difference.

=- 5 is an acceptable level of injuries on a weekly basis so long as its not Roo, Chips, Lenny, BJ, Max and Ball.

= 7 player improvement.

So yes I really think we are up with the Hawks and Cats this year. No need to defend RL. He should seriously be focused on the flag this year given fourth last year with one third of our team under performing.

Forget your Shite and excuses.

We are negative net assets, negative cash flow and loss making.

Time for RL to prove himself right – if he f**** up he may end up like GT and have to do everything himself (or alternatively he will bail out if he is not real).

Yeah I just watched Geelong/Hawthorn...and yep we are right on their hammer...I mean Gwilt, Jones, Mqualter hot on their tails.........they must be sh!!tting their pants...

Your learnt maths at school - well done.

With your knowledge of "backing winners" Id suggest your gonna need all the maths help you can get to help with your odds.

Your so delusional its a laugh.

Well I enjoyed the game against the Swans.

What I saw was Roo & Chips ave. Lenny wasn't there.

Our top 3 did not win us the match.

The rest of the team stepped up.

We did see one third of the team to play to their ability when some-times they have gone missing under RL.

Even if you do not understand it yes IMO we have 27 players worthy of premiership side. But if with injuries/under performers we have to dig deeper - no will not win - no different to GT days.

I wasmost dissapointed in Gehrig.

He was hardly sighted and if he wont step up I think its best he open up a restaraunt and p!ss off.

Clearly Lyon is failing to get the best out of this player - what can we do Shaggy?

[Shaggy]

The test for Lyon is can he maintain a good core AND bring the depth upto scratch - Ive expected this take time. You wanted tosimply slap another coat of paint on and send em out again (possibly still trying to play like Brisbane 6 years ago.....with Blake as our ruckman).

Basic maths Tef.

=+11 - Last year we had 11 senior players under perform which is not acceptable. The coaches will focus on making them perform.

=-1 We have lost Banger who is a loss.

=+2 But we have kids who are coming up. We need and should expect at least 2 a year to cross the line and make a difference. This year IMO Ray is definite and Armooo (IMO). Geary and Eddy are close IMO. So we should have 2-4 players making a real difference.

=- 5 is an acceptable level of injuries on a weekly basis so long as its not Roo, Chips, Lenny, BJ, Max and Ball.

= 7 player improvement.

So yes I really think we are up with the Hawks and Cats this year. No need to defend RL. He should seriously be focused on the flag this year given fourth last year with one third of our team under performing.

Forget your Shite and excuses.

We are negative net assets, negative cash flow and loss making.

Time for RL to prove himself right – if he f**** up he may end up like GT and have to do everything himself (or alternatively he will bail out if he is not real).

Yeah I just watched Geelong/Hawthorn...and yep we are right on their hammer...I mean Gwilt, Jones, Mqualter hot on their tails.........they must be sh!!tting their pants...

Your learnt maths at school - well done.

With your knowledge of "backing winners" Id suggest your gonna need all the maths help you can get to help with your odds.

Your so delusional its a laugh.

Well I enjoyed the game against the Swans.

What I saw was Roo & Chips ave. Lenny wasn't there.

Our top 3 did not win us the match.

The rest of the team stepped up.

We did see one third of the team to play to their ability when some-times they have gone missing under RL.

Even if you do not understand it yes IMO we have 27 players worthy of premiership side. But if with injuries/under performers we have to dig deeper - no will not win - no different to GT days.

I wasmost dissapointed in Gehrig.

He was hardly sighted and if he wont step up I think its best he open up a restaraunt and p!ss off.

Clearly Lyon is failing to get the best out of this player - what can we do Shaggy?

No question RL got the best out of our team on the week end.

Thats what some of us have been looking for

[Mr Magic]

No question RL got the best out of our team on the week end.

Thats what some of us have been looking for

Unfortunately it would appear that some have been looking for exactly the opposite.

[Shaggy]

No question RL got the best out of our team on the week end.

Thats what some of us have been looking for

Unfortunately it would appear that some have been looking for exactly the opposite.

I don't think so.

We all love the Saints .... there is a little banter about the past but we all want success including RF even if some don't see it. Frankly RF did predict the future from the GT sacking. The SS vibe against him at the time was strong but history has proven him right IMO.

But yes this is the year IMO .... with a bit of luck.

[Teflon]

No question RL got the best out of our team on the week end.

Thats what some of us have been looking for

Unfortunately it would appear that some have been looking for exactly the opposite.

I don't think so.

We all love the Saints .... there is a little banter about the past but we all want success including RF even if some don't see it. Frankly RF did predict the future from the GT sacking. The SS vibe against him at the time was strong but history has proven him right IMO.

But yes this is the year IMO .... with a bit of luck.

Maybe we aint going far if Ross can't get the best out of Aussie Jones.

[Teflon]

No question RL got the best out of our team on the week end.

Thats what some of us have been looking for

Unfortunately it would appear that some have been looking for exactly the opposite.

I don't think so.

We all love the Saints .... there is a little banter about the past but we all want success including RF even if some don't see it. Frankly RF did predict the future from the GT sacking. The SS vibe against him at the time was strong but history has proven him right IMO.

But yes this is the year IMO .... with a bit of luck.

Maybe we aint going far if Ross can't get the best out of Aussie Jones.

[Teflon]

No question RL got the best out of our team on the week end.

Thats what some of us have been looking for

Unfortunately it would appear that some have been looking for exactly the opposite.

I don't think so.

We all love the Saints .... there is a little banter about the past but we all want success including RF even if some don't see it. Frankly RF did predict the future from the GT sacking. The SS vibe against him at the time was strong but history has proven him right IMO.

But yes this is the year IMO .... with a bit of luck.

Maybe we aint going far if Ross can't get the best out of Aussie Jones.