Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30089
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1233 times
Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
No...I don't mean where he plays, but rather in a being a late bloomer who has flaws that need to be overcome but who comes good.
Blake has IMO really improved in many facets over the last two seasons in particular...and I used to bea harsh critic.
When Blake first emerged I was quitea fan. But then I became disillusioned by his h=failure to finish off well after doing all the hard yards, or his rabbit in the headlight momenets.
But throughout all he had a fantasistic work ethic (as does CJ0 who work hard at all facets of his game, and through gametime at last became confortbae and confident on the field to becomea very useful player.
Still no star, but yes with starlight moments, but the type of player that every coach likes to have in his team.
So will CJ work through his flaws????
No...I don't mean where he plays, but rather in a being a late bloomer who has flaws that need to be overcome but who comes good.
Blake has IMO really improved in many facets over the last two seasons in particular...and I used to bea harsh critic.
When Blake first emerged I was quitea fan. But then I became disillusioned by his h=failure to finish off well after doing all the hard yards, or his rabbit in the headlight momenets.
But throughout all he had a fantasistic work ethic (as does CJ0 who work hard at all facets of his game, and through gametime at last became confortbae and confident on the field to becomea very useful player.
Still no star, but yes with starlight moments, but the type of player that every coach likes to have in his team.
So will CJ work through his flaws????
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30089
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1233 times
The reason I have compared him to Blake is that I think that at times CJ rushes his disposal and gets rid of it poorly not so much due to disposal skills, but due to not thinking it throuh.Cairnsman wrote:Is CJs only flaw his kicking?
If it is then he hasn't got a problem in the new handball version of AFL.
Once he plays more games I believe that Blake like through experience that he will improve in this regard.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon 18 Feb 2008 1:34pm
- Location: Cheltenham
- Contact:
I think CJ has a decent future. He's no star, but he is dedicated, superbly fit, quick and most importantly, improving. A lot like Blake (except perhaps for the leg speed). It's also worth remembering that he is still "young" in terms of his AFL career. If he's going to serve the typical RL apprenticeship he is still 1-2 years away from reaching his zenith.
I think some fans "sit off" CJ, just waiting for him to make a mistake in the belief that it confirms their opinions of him. This is known as "confirmation bias" in which we only see the things that are consistent with our existing opinions. I'd like to see what his actual disposal efficiency was last year. I think it might be surprisingly good. He also gets a lot of clever, if unorthodox little touches that go largely unnoticed. They show he has a good football brain. His kicking at times is a little suspect and lacks penetration, but I think this stems from a lack of confidence, which in turn affects decision making and execution. These aspects should improve as he gains more experience and receives developmental coaching.
I think the CJ, mature age recruit type of player will become more common in the future. Mature bodied and experienced at playing against men. They may offer clubs a more "instant return" than the traditional 18 year old draftees and are less speculative as they already have exposed form against experienced opposition. They are also further down the developmental track, so more accurate assessments can be made of their abilities. ATM there is a fixation with drafting kids out of the TAC and draft camps. There is fertile recruiting ground to be harvested from other sources.
We have seen the rookie draft used to reduce the risk of making recruiting errors, almost a "try before you buy system". I think the mature age recruits from the WAFL, SANFL, VFL and other suburban competitions may soon become more common. I know that with our improved recruiting department and its networks, we are well placed to be at the forefront in this area, instead of being the copycats years down the track. Dawson and Miles are two recent examples of potentially good players who have been overlooked or discarded prematurely. Here's hoping they become a couple of "Blakes". They'd be pretty good value if they did.
I think some fans "sit off" CJ, just waiting for him to make a mistake in the belief that it confirms their opinions of him. This is known as "confirmation bias" in which we only see the things that are consistent with our existing opinions. I'd like to see what his actual disposal efficiency was last year. I think it might be surprisingly good. He also gets a lot of clever, if unorthodox little touches that go largely unnoticed. They show he has a good football brain. His kicking at times is a little suspect and lacks penetration, but I think this stems from a lack of confidence, which in turn affects decision making and execution. These aspects should improve as he gains more experience and receives developmental coaching.
I think the CJ, mature age recruit type of player will become more common in the future. Mature bodied and experienced at playing against men. They may offer clubs a more "instant return" than the traditional 18 year old draftees and are less speculative as they already have exposed form against experienced opposition. They are also further down the developmental track, so more accurate assessments can be made of their abilities. ATM there is a fixation with drafting kids out of the TAC and draft camps. There is fertile recruiting ground to be harvested from other sources.
We have seen the rookie draft used to reduce the risk of making recruiting errors, almost a "try before you buy system". I think the mature age recruits from the WAFL, SANFL, VFL and other suburban competitions may soon become more common. I know that with our improved recruiting department and its networks, we are well placed to be at the forefront in this area, instead of being the copycats years down the track. Dawson and Miles are two recent examples of potentially good players who have been overlooked or discarded prematurely. Here's hoping they become a couple of "Blakes". They'd be pretty good value if they did.
Run like Ditterich, arms flailing, cause fear in the enemy, make fellow saints walk tall!
Re: Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
No. He'll be overtaken in the team this year by Ray, Armo, Eddy and X Clarke (returning from injury, as well as BJ moving in to the midfield.saintsRrising wrote:Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
Terrible disposal, poor timing, poor awareness of men around him.
Agreed. In the WAFL.I think CJ has a decent future.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
Thanks for that, I just love that piece of play. Lets not forget that bone crunching mark either, is there a link to that?ohwhenthesaints! wrote:Goodness, many players can make us cringe with their disposals at times?
If you are ever annoyed with Jones, just watch this again and I guarantee your frustration will melt away
I have always been a fan of Blakey and a fan of CJ too, just love his toughness, hes in everything.
Qld Saints Supporter Group
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Tue 28 Sep 2004 7:43pm
- Location: Gippsland
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
All true. And yet, his work ethic, and sheer enthusiasm is worth a great deal to the team. His defensive pressure is probably the best in the side; he chases and chases and harrasses the opposition until the ball clears the area.Richter wrote:Terrible disposal, poor timing, poor awareness of men around him.
I'm in two minds with him. His work without the footy is great; with the footy average at best. Another Jayson Danials perhaps?
He may be overtaken, but if so, it'll be by a player with as much effort, and better disposal.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3465
- Joined: Fri 29 Oct 2004 1:01pm
- Has thanked: 91 times
- Been thanked: 162 times
Re: Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
Blake was rather unfairly maligned here for a long time. As a ruckman, which is what he was prior to 07, he was always better than most at finding the ball and using the ball. His rucking went from average to below average when they changed the rucking rules in 05. Most of the criticism of Blake stemmed from how he was was played rather than how he himself played. Blake did an excellent job of providing what our previous coach asked for from a ruckman.saintsRrising wrote:Blake has IMO really improved in many facets over the last two seasons in particular...and I used to bea harsh critic.
I would argue that the only significant difference in Blake's game now is where he plays. He actually gets less of the ball than he did when he was a ruckman when you factor in TOG. He uses the ball a bit better, but again, it's easier for a back to find a target than someone in the middle of the ground. Either way, his 06 and 08 were better than his 07 when he was used mostly as a tagger. I don't see that he's improved noticably under Ross Lyon - he's just changed roles.
I like CJ, but he's much more of a battler than Blake ever was. He's a ball magnet, but he's not a ball winner, and he's not very good with the ball. He's excellent defensively, so he may have a role as a midfield tagger. If not, it's hard to see him as anything more than a place-holder until Armo, Geary or Steven is ready to take his place in the side.
Yeah nah pleasing positive
- evertonfc
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7261
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 9:11pm
- Location: 'Quietly Confident' County
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 267 times
- Contact:
The overwhelming love for unskilled triers on this site does my head in.
If we had Shannon Byrnes, half this forum would be on their knees trying to please him.
But Geelong fans don't rate him one iota. Because you need skilled players in today's game.
He's the back-ups of back-ups. In an era where turnovers often mean goals, his inability to use the footy correctly is very costly.
Also, I've noticed he does a lot of pointless sideways and 20m lollipops - these keep his disposal effectivness rating high, but often slows down our movement.
If we had Shannon Byrnes, half this forum would be on their knees trying to please him.
But Geelong fans don't rate him one iota. Because you need skilled players in today's game.
He's the back-ups of back-ups. In an era where turnovers often mean goals, his inability to use the footy correctly is very costly.
Also, I've noticed he does a lot of pointless sideways and 20m lollipops - these keep his disposal effectivness rating high, but often slows down our movement.
Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.
![Image](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/684651e21d.jpg)
![Image](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/684651e21d.jpg)
Blake was in the system straight out of junior footy wasnt he??!!...
I remember his first few games clearly, taking a few nice overhead marks in the backline, thinking he is quite a good prospect....
I wasnt the biggest fan of Blake (still shakey but has clearly earnt his spot inthe 22) but i feel he is, and always will be, a far better player than CJ...
CJ isnt as young as many seem to think... Sure his work ethic and desire are great, but that can only take one so far...
Id be very disappointed if a Steven, Armo or Connors dont come through and overtake him this year.... They should all have far greater upside....
I remember his first few games clearly, taking a few nice overhead marks in the backline, thinking he is quite a good prospect....
I wasnt the biggest fan of Blake (still shakey but has clearly earnt his spot inthe 22) but i feel he is, and always will be, a far better player than CJ...
CJ isnt as young as many seem to think... Sure his work ethic and desire are great, but that can only take one so far...
Id be very disappointed if a Steven, Armo or Connors dont come through and overtake him this year.... They should all have far greater upside....
- meher baba
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7196
- Joined: Mon 14 Aug 2006 6:49am
- Location: Tasmania
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 501 times
There's no comparison between Blake and Jones.
Blake can play reasonably as a second ruck and, as we have seen, highly effectively as a KPP.
CJ is an outside midfielder with a skill level in the bottom 10 per cent of the AFL for players of this type.
I still think his best longer-term pathway is to try to become a ball-winning, hard tackling in-and-under player a la Thommo or Scott West where his disposal by foot becomes less important.
Unless or until he manages to make this transformation, I agree 100% with evertonfc's comments above: he's a reserve's reserve.
Blake can play reasonably as a second ruck and, as we have seen, highly effectively as a KPP.
CJ is an outside midfielder with a skill level in the bottom 10 per cent of the AFL for players of this type.
I still think his best longer-term pathway is to try to become a ball-winning, hard tackling in-and-under player a la Thommo or Scott West where his disposal by foot becomes less important.
Unless or until he manages to make this transformation, I agree 100% with evertonfc's comments above: he's a reserve's reserve.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
- Jonathan Swift
- BAM! (shhhh)
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2134
- Joined: Thu 24 May 2007 5:23pm
- Location: The little voice inside your head
That's how I see Jones these days. If he's the benchmark player for kids to steal a spot from now, then we're in a better spot than many seem to think. He would have been borderlin bottom 6 in last years PF (Armo, Eddy, McQualter, Gwilt, Fiora below, then it's subjective), but he's far from the first under the pump to those guys.Cairnsman wrote:Is CJs only flaw his kicking?
If it is then he hasn't got a problem in the new handball version of AFL.
He runs, tackles and handballs well. He kicks horribly, but remains useful. Forcing him out of the side would be an excellent result, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
He's neither as exciting as some would have you believe, nor is he as bad as some would have you believe. He'll be around as long as he's useful, and for the time being, he is.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
- Henry Ford
- Bernard Shakey
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11235
- Joined: Sun 18 Mar 2007 11:22pm
- Location: Down By The River 1989, 2003, 2009 & 2013
- Has thanked: 119 times
- Been thanked: 137 times
Re: Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
In a word no!
You cannot question his endeavor, but, if we have the whole list available, he would struggle to make the top 30.
Blake is an adaptable player who can play most positions on the field and as a spare parts man, who gives his all, is loved by the coaching staff.
CJ is a one trick pony, who doesn't execute that trick all that well.
In a word no!
You cannot question his endeavor, but, if we have the whole list available, he would struggle to make the top 30.
Blake is an adaptable player who can play most positions on the field and as a spare parts man, who gives his all, is loved by the coaching staff.
CJ is a one trick pony, who doesn't execute that trick all that well.
Old enough to repaint, but young enough to sell
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30089
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1233 times
- Unforgiven
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3258
- Joined: Wed 23 Feb 2005 9:48pm
- Location: Full Forward
Very true in my opinion, no doubt has CJ improved, but he still has a fair way to go. I am a fan, and think he has a future in AFL. Whilst his disposal efficiency stat may have improved, its not like he is makin better decisions or anything like that.evertonfc wrote:
Also, I've noticed he does a lot of pointless sideways and 20m lollipops - these keep his disposal effectivness rating high, but often slows down our movement.
Carpe Diem
- Armoooo
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7281
- Joined: Sun 26 Nov 2006 2:28pm
- Location: The Great South East
- Contact:
He has improved a whole lot and still has some left in him IMO, already exceded my expectations and will continue to....
I hope he models himself on a Kane Cornes to see the type of player Lyon wants him to become, or even a Brett Kirk...
I hope he models himself on a Kane Cornes to see the type of player Lyon wants him to become, or even a Brett Kirk...
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30089
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1233 times
Well personally I reckon he is making alot better decisions.Saint Corin wrote:
, its not like he is makin better decisions or anything like that.
His handballs are in the main a lot more damaging and normally find players in space....and his running to position is very good. He has also xhibited the knack of knowing eaxtly when to run off his opponent.
It is no accident that CJ often ends up near goals to create a goal assist, or to receive himself to kick a goal.
5 goals in 7 games this year.
6 in 20 last year.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- Unforgiven
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3258
- Joined: Wed 23 Feb 2005 9:48pm
- Location: Full Forward
hmm Im just not too sure. I will have to watch some more of him. I think I was probably unfair to say he isn't making better decisions. His handballing is better, and your definitly right about his running into space, is superb.
His kicking is still the weaker part of the game, but has improved significantly, and hopefully continues to. Though there was an easy kick on the wing, where he choose to kick backwards, it went up like a rainbow and a collingwood player choped it off.
I know im being harsh, but the fact was it wasn't a terribly hard kick to execute, and he wasn't under much pressure.
I realise though Im being picky, and that everyone makes clangers, just this one stood out to me.
His kicking is still the weaker part of the game, but has improved significantly, and hopefully continues to. Though there was an easy kick on the wing, where he choose to kick backwards, it went up like a rainbow and a collingwood player choped it off.
I know im being harsh, but the fact was it wasn't a terribly hard kick to execute, and he wasn't under much pressure.
I realise though Im being picky, and that everyone makes clangers, just this one stood out to me.
Carpe Diem
Re: Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
I agree with you there about Blake...he has improved out of sight...i have to admit i was not a massive fan of blake and had no idea why lyon kept on persisting with him...same could be said with cj really....but over the last few years both have taken massive steps blake last year and cj this that have made be look like a fool for writing them off....they have more than held their own in the team so far and actually look forward to seeing them develop even better....saintsRrising wrote:Is CJ the new Jason Blake???
No...I don't mean where he plays, but rather in a being a late bloomer who has flaws that need to be overcome but who comes good.
Blake has IMO really improved in many facets over the last two seasons in particular...and I used to bea harsh critic.
When Blake first emerged I was quitea fan. But then I became disillusioned by his h=failure to finish off well after doing all the hard yards, or his rabbit in the headlight momenets.
But throughout all he had a fantasistic work ethic (as does CJ0 who work hard at all facets of his game, and through gametime at last became confortbae and confident on the field to becomea very useful player.
Still no star, but yes with starlight moments, but the type of player that every coach likes to have in his team.
So will CJ work through his flaws????
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30089
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1233 times