Was the win against Hawthorn an aberration?

[Gracie]

I have been pondering this one since the GF. It was one of the best nights of the 2008 season (and the win against the pies) but can we repeat it? Is this the way Ross wants us to play or was it poor form by the hawks? Everything clicked in the second half of that game ....and then there was Blake. Can anyone remember if Hodge played? What are your thoughts?

[Mr Magic]

If you win the footy in the middle and move it quickly into the Forward line you can beat any team.
That night we belted Hawthorn in the middle in thelast half and they couldn't stop us.

In the Prelim Final, other than breaking even in the first quarter, we only won the midfield battle for a small part of the third quarter and when we did they had no answer to stopping Roo. No question in my mind they have a serious deficiency in their KPP defense, which they cover up with great mids and forwards.

IMHO, the trick for us to beat Hawthorn is as simple as winning in the midfield (or at least negating their midfield).

Luke Ball was a huge 'out' for us in thePrelim - he not only wins much footy for us but also makes it difficult for opponents to get 'clean footy' themselves.

[saint patrick]

Agree with your summation MM...

Finding the footy and giving forwards a chance to capitalise is really what its all about and our mids were red hot that night...

Max's shutdown job on Franklin was also a key...

Think that the fact the game was at Telstra rather than the MCG helped as well...

Was there that night as well and believe if anything that it shows there is not as much betwwen the teams when things fall your way..

Add Baker and Maguire to the mix and I look forward to the return bout with some confidence..

[older saint]

Unfortunately i think so. Hawthorn swicthed off at half time and we smashed them but when it mattered we were smashed in the prelim. Both teams have players on the up and on the fall, however Hawthorn seem to have had more players recently who have gone to the next level. To compete we need to get players to step up this year to top rank - Montagna , Dal Santo, Gram , in the same way Bateman, Sewell, etc were able to . If that happens then we can compete.

[saintsRrising]

Unfortunately i think so. Hawthorn swicthed off at half time and we smashed them but when it mattered we were smashed in the prelim. Both teams have players on the up and on the fall, however Hawthorn seem to have had more players recently who have gone to the next level. To compete we need to get players to step up this year to top rank - Montagna , Dal Santo, Gram , in the same way Bateman, Sewell, etc were able to . If that happens then we can compete.

Agree..though I also agree with MM's comment on Ball.

As the Crows showed in 97...it is what you do in the finals that count.

In the finals we did not STEP UP.

We need too, to be successful.


The Cats went missing on GF Day....once again showing that what is in the head of players on any given day is crucial to success.

Can our players mentally shape up in 09? Well we are about to find out.

And yes potential is a DIRTY word and I am weary of the many Saints players who have this tag.

[evertonfc]

We've got no hope if they hit us like this:

Honestly, can you imagine guys like R Clarke, Gwilt, Jones, McQualter and Gilbert having anywhere near the footy smarts, braun, agility, strength or skill to shut that down?

Now, I'm not saying those guys can't play, because they can. But we were exposed in two finals by teams willing to play hard, quick, pressure-filled footy.

But I keep referring to that clip for ONE reason. A premiership was won in that six minutes. They took Geelong - an unbeatable team - and ripped the soul from them. The question we must ask is simple: could we have done that to Geelong? No way. Not like that.

So, how did Hawthorn do it? By playing the most ferocious, aggressive, determined and hungry footy I've ever seen.

Do we have those same qualities that can allow us to elevate to that position? I fear that for the moment we do not.

That's not to say we can't develop them - we have 14 new players on our list, and who knows how many will come good.

I think about that match where we whacked them and whilst it was a good second half, I kinda felt that a combination of things helped us - and make no mistake, we are a four-goal better team at Telstra Dome; our ability to score goals quickly there - against anyone - shouldn't be underestimated.

I suspect that in 2009 the gap is a little far to the top two and probably three teams; equally, I am happy to see the club promoting youth like never before, and I believe that the kids brought in will offer a new lease of life in the long-term.

[degruch]

I don't think our win was an abberation, but I was surprised we lost to them during the finals - Ball was definately a major factor, as was the fatigue of a long season. However, the Hawks were missing a couple key players in the season game.

We've had the wood on the Hawks for some time, so that was always an advantage leading up to the game late last season. Max doesn't seem to have too much trouble with Buddy, but as we saw in the finals game, Buddy doesn't need to be on song for the Hawks to kick you off the park. RL did a great job out-coaching the rolling flood, fast ball movement out of the back line was the key to overcoming this, and setting up our forwards. The opposite was true of our finals performance, Hodge dropping back in the hole brilliantly.

I think RL has the smarts to out-do Clarkson, he just needs 100% focus and effort from the troops.

[kaos theory]

But I keep referring to that clip for ONE reason. A premiership was won in that six minutes. They took Geelong - an unbeatable team - and ripped the soul from them. The question we must ask is simple: could we have done that to Geelong? No way. Not like that.

Let's not get carried away here. The cats were horrible in front of goal on the day. They missed 8 to 10 easy shots at goal up to half time, which on any other day would have gone through.

The game could have been over at half time. Had they kicked a little better, they would have gone in at half time with much more confidecence, and the hawks with much less.

Momentum (confidence) is a big factor in games, and it turned their way in the 3rd qtr, thanks in large part to the cats' wastfulness.

Btw, that momentum we had against the hawks in round 15....and they struggled to stop us...

[plugger66]

I don't think our win was an abberation, but I was surprised we lost to them during the finals - Ball was definately a major factor, as was the fatigue of a long season. However, the Hawks were missing a couple key players in the season game.

We've had the wood on the Hawks for some time, so that was always an advantage leading up to the game late last season. Max doesn't seem to have too much trouble with Buddy, but as we saw in the finals game, Buddy doesn't need to be on song for the Hawks to kick you off the park. RL did a great job out-coaching the rolling flood, fast ball movement out of the back line was the key to overcoming this, and setting up our forwards. The opposite was true of our finals performance, Hodge dropping back in the hole brilliantly.

I think RL has the smarts to out-do Clarkson, he just needs 100% focus and effort from the troops.

He may or may not have the smarts to outcoach Clarkson but if you are honest in your assessment of where we are to Hawthorn well IMO we are 4-5 wins off them again this season based on them being a younger side with certainly more improvement than us. I hope I am wrong but I hust dont see our younger players being match winners this season.

[older saint]

I don't think our win was an abberation, but I was surprised we lost to them during the finals - Ball was definately a major factor, as was the fatigue of a long season. However, the Hawks were missing a couple key players in the season game.

We've had the wood on the Hawks for some time, so that was always an advantage leading up to the game late last season. Max doesn't seem to have too much trouble with Buddy, but as we saw in the finals game, Buddy doesn't need to be on song for the Hawks to kick you off the park. RL did a great job out-coaching the rolling flood, fast ball movement out of the back line was the key to overcoming this, and setting up our forwards. The opposite was true of our finals performance, Hodge dropping back in the hole brilliantly.

I think RL has the smarts to out-do Clarkson, he just needs 100% focus and effort from the troops.

I have to disagree on that one in the finals. Clarkson sent whoever was on Gilbert to FF and he got his pants pulled down ( mainly by Williams) . Hindsight he neede d to hold his structure

[degruch]

I don't think our win was an abberation, but I was surprised we lost to them during the finals - Ball was definately a major factor, as was the fatigue of a long season. However, the Hawks were missing a couple key players in the season game.

We've had the wood on the Hawks for some time, so that was always an advantage leading up to the game late last season. Max doesn't seem to have too much trouble with Buddy, but as we saw in the finals game, Buddy doesn't need to be on song for the Hawks to kick you off the park. RL did a great job out-coaching the rolling flood, fast ball movement out of the back line was the key to overcoming this, and setting up our forwards. The opposite was true of our finals performance, Hodge dropping back in the hole brilliantly.

I think RL has the smarts to out-do Clarkson, he just needs 100% focus and effort from the troops.

He may or may not have the smarts to outcoach Clarkson but if you are honest in your assessment of where we are to Hawthorn well IMO we are 4-5 wins off them again this season based on them being a younger side with certainly more improvement than us. I hope I am wrong but I hust dont see our younger players being match winners this season.

That may be true Plugger...they've got the runs on the board as far as talent goes, and we are relying on some recycled players growing an extra leg, some greats playing even greater, and some kiddies producing something encouraging early. However, any of these three factors could see us being at least as good as last year, if not better. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Armoooo]

It's February and it can't hurt to be positive guys. Just remember Geelong were unbeatable this time last year.

[degruch]

It's February and it can't hurt to be positive guys. Just remember Geelong were unbeatable this time last year.

...and unbackable the year before!

[tweedaletomanning]

Absolutely spot on Everton and plugger.

THe finals are the games that count.

Didn't the EAgles beat us the following week?

Have to say we are seemingly miles behind the top 2 teams and IMO still behind the dogs.

In the clip linked to EV's post it showed how important ONE or Two picks can be.

Rioli and Dew just tore it up when it mattered...

Where were our picks?? Mcevoy?? and ??

[midas_touch]

At the moment, I can't see us being able to match the Hawks and Cats. Last year's finals series just showed how far the difference is between us and those 2 teams. Having Ball and Baker out was very costly, but we had at least half a dozen players tout there hat weren't suitable for the rigours of finals footy.

[Con Gorozidis]

depends who you ask. im sure if u asked a hawks fan they would say they had a shocker. and every team is entitled to a bad game or 2 throughout the season.

i think the 2 finals showed where were at. we need to improve 20%.

[InkerSaint]

Here's a stat to bake your noodles...

The Saints haven't lost a Saturday night game at the Telstra Dome since 2003.

[doppler effect]

Here's a stat to bake your noodles...

The Saints haven't lost a Saturday night game at the Telstra Dome since 2003.

Damn, It's a pity we only have 3 Saturday Night games at the Dome this year then.

Instead we get a bucket load of Sunday Dome games. Makes it bloody hard for me to get there.

[BigMart]

The SS whipping boy was a massive part of that win.....his second half was as good a half as anyone has played in a saints jumper
Third Quarter he had 16 touches and kicked a goal.....but he plays NO good against good opposition.....funny thing is, that other win against Collingwood - he was BOG that game too....which is why he is good (he wins games) and why he cops the hard tag....he is viewed as the most damaging mid.

McQualter was another responsible, and Blake....of course Riewoldt and Sam Fisher were good as usual

[jays]

Here's a stat to bake your noodles...

The Saints haven't lost a Saturday night game at the Telstra Dome since 2003.

thats a good stat wish we played more sat night at dome hehe

[widereceiver]

The Orcs were on top in the first half and had a short week, so perhaps they were over-confident or out of puff.

Still it was the most fluid football we played against a good side, bar the first half against Dogs in the first haf of the year. (Clearly, the Dogs hadn't had their Pal before the game.)

We have a long way to improve to match the best.

My hope is whatever the result, we are not as boring to watch as last year.