Who is jealous?????

[bob__71]

Do people think so little of our team that they really believe injecting one ex-champion of unknown ability into it will transform St Kilda from run-of-the-mill to premiers?

I reckon I have read all 8529 posts regarding BC on this site and cannot recall anyone saying that BC would turn 'St Kilda from run-of-the-mill to premiers' or similar.

In fact I reckon that nearly all the people who thought getting BC was a good idea did so because he would put us another step closer to the flag. To believe that you would have to regard St Kilda as better than run-of-the-mill.

I think it was as simple as:

In: Cousins
Out: McQualter (or similar)
Cost: Very little

Portraying everybody else's arguments more outlandish doesn't make yours appear more sensible.

McQualter has done more for the Stkilda football club than BC ever has. I think some peoples lack of respect is shameful.

[degruch]

Portraying everybody else's arguments more outlandish doesn't make yours appear more sensible.

Ain't that the truth...I suggest you practice what you preach.

I thought I quoted you and commented on what you wrote. Where is the misrepresentation?

'Run-of-the-mill' is a fairly innocuous description of how some punters feel our team performed in 2008. Reading through posts in other threads the team had been described as lucky to fall into 4th position, worse than Collingwood, likely to finish way out of the 8 in 2009...they sound far more sensational.

The misinterpretation is that 'run-of-the-mill' is sensationalising others opionions to make mind sound more important...truth is that its fairly mild description of how some feel the team rates after last season, and that my point of view is reasonable level-headed...no spin doctoring required.

For all we know we may already have our 'saviour' on board...swapping McQualter for Fisher in the middle may = a tilt at the premiership, or for that matter McQualter for Heyne, or maybe it's Mini himself??? These are equally as plausible, as well as equally fanciful. My POV is that it'll be greater than one player, seems too many were hanging too much on BC to me.

[sainteronline]

'Run-of-the-mill' is a fairly innocuous description of how some punters feel our team performed in 2008. Reading through posts in other threads the team had been described as lucky to fall into 4th position, worse than Collingwood, likely to finish way out of the 8 in 2009...they sound far more sensational.

The misinterpretation is that 'run-of-the-mill' is sensationalising others opionions to make mind sound more important...truth is that its fairly mild description of how some feel the team rates after last season, and that my point of view is reasonable level-headed...no spin doctoring required.

For all we know we may already have our 'saviour' on board...swapping McQualter for Fisher in the middle may = a tilt at the premiership, or for that matter McQualter for Heyne, or maybe it's Mini himself??? These are equally as plausible, as well as equally fanciful. My POV is that it'll be greater than one player, seems too many were hanging too much on BC to me.

also missing from last years midfield

1 dual brownlow winner,who finished in our top 5

not saying he can fully replace harves

but experience counts an hes got a premiership

everybody raved about how good it would be to get Gardner, King and Schneider because of their premiership experience

Benny had that to

[sainteronline]

McQualter has done more for the Stkilda football club than BC ever has. I think some peoples lack of respect is shameful.

I never said that he hadn't

if you think that lack of respect is shameful

think about how Robert Harvey has been treated

just because he had played 21 seasons, they wanted him gone

even though he finished in our top five

in his final season

[degruch]

'Run-of-the-mill' is a fairly innocuous description of how some punters feel our team performed in 2008. Reading through posts in other threads the team had been described as lucky to fall into 4th position, worse than Collingwood, likely to finish way out of the 8 in 2009...they sound far more sensational.

The misinterpretation is that 'run-of-the-mill' is sensationalising others opionions to make mind sound more important...truth is that its fairly mild description of how some feel the team rates after last season, and that my point of view is reasonable level-headed...no spin doctoring required.

For all we know we may already have our 'saviour' on board...swapping McQualter for Fisher in the middle may = a tilt at the premiership, or for that matter McQualter for Heyne, or maybe it's Mini himself??? These are equally as plausible, as well as equally fanciful. My POV is that it'll be greater than one player, seems too many were hanging too much on BC to me.

also missing from last years midfield

1 dual brownlow winner,who finished in our top 5

not saying he can fully replace harves

but experience counts an hes got a premiership

everybody raved about how good it would be to get Gardner, King and Schneider because of their premiership experience

Benny had that to

Yes, that's very true...and don't get me wrong, I would have happily had BC in the team, despite reservations about form and injuries. However, I'm sure we didn't go looking specifically for a 150kg 6'5" forward who could kick a bag of wheat 100m when Plugger left - not that it wouldn't be handy. There is more than one way to skin a cat - I would rather see the side's midfield rejigged as a result of Harv's departure and the chance for a new champion to emerge, rather than go looking for clones and hope they'll fit in. But that's just my opinion.

Overall, having Harvs in the team was not the only reason why we were competative last year, any more so than it was his fault we were on the bottom in 2001. He's a great loss, but he's gone and I think it provides more opportunities than disadvantages. Give the new kids a go.

[sainteronline]

Give the new kids a go.

I am all for giving the kids go

however are you telling me that we didn't have enough room

for a 30-year-old Brownlow medallist who's had premiership experience

even though he's had a year off

which in my opinion will only benefit him for having 12 months off, would have given his body time to heal better than playing football would have

and some of the consensus around here seems to point to the fact

that you can't have too many of his type of midfielders

[degruch]

Give the new kids a go.

I am all for giving the kids go

however are you telling me that we didn't have enough room

for a 30-year-old Brownlow medallist who's had premiership experience

even though he's had a year off

which in my opinion will only benefit him for having 12 months off, would have given his body time to heal better than playing football would have

and some of the consensus around here seems to point to the fact

that you can't have too many of his type of midfielders

Well, you would have thought it was worth a shot, but he was deemed to risky, too old, not worth the risk in premiership points, whatever. I'm not convinced we're in any worse position as a result...at least until the season is finished. Even then, if we don't end up Premiers 2009, how many variables could you throw in, (in addtionally to our descision not to recuit BC) for our lack of silverware?

We'll never know whether it was a mistake or not...I've never been able to get my head around why people would consider it as such, surely no-one out there has any more insight into it, other than the St Kilda Board and the Collingwood FC?

[tweedaletomanning]

Watched the replay of the QF against the cats on Foxtel last night.

Boy, are we off the pace significantly. Ball would definately have helped, and a BC would have brought us much closer..

The loss of Harves in 2009 will also be hard felt.

BC IMO may have been a risk, but it was one that we NEEDED to take.

An absolute waste playing for the tiges.

Only 2 clubs (us and the filth) really would have made it worthwile picking him up.

Collingwood COULDN'T pick him up after their debacle.

What was our reason????? I guess most of us will never know.

[InkerSaint]

however are you telling me that we didn't have enough room

Yes, that's very true...and don't get me wrong, I would have happily had BC in the team

BC would have been great in a Saints guernsey, but it's history.

As for premiership experience... Geelong had 20-odd players with premiership experience... didn't win them the '08 flag.

Saints have Dempster, Schneider, King. They're all great players, but premiership pixie dust doesn't get you over the line by itself.

Would BC have been the tipping point for us? Not convinced. The Saints don't lack for talent. They have shown the ability to apply pressure. They lack confidence, teamwork, and consistency. What was the difference between the Cats lineup in R22, 2006, and R22, 2007? Not a fat lot.

[sainteronline]

however are you telling me that we didn't have enough room

Yes, that's very true...and don't get me wrong, I would have happily had BC in the team

BC would have been great in a Saints guernsey, but it's history.

As for premiership experience... Geelong had 20-odd players with premiership experience... didn't win them the '08 flag.

Saints have Dempster, Schneider, King. They're all great players, but premiership pixie dust doesn't get you over the line by itself.

Would BC have been the tipping point for us? Not convinced. The Saints don't lack for talent. They have shown the ability to apply pressure. They lack confidence, teamwork, and consistency. What was the difference between the Cats lineup in R22, 2006, and R22, 2007? Not a fat lot.

not saying it would have been the tipping point

just saying (IMHO) he would have improved our midfield and our chances

and I still say that their decision was based on

dimwits disapproval

and cousins cockiness

footy first, not in this case

[Solar]

didn't do the tan and even the most excited tigers fans are honest enough to admit that he is 2 months away from proper fitness..... watch those hammy's do in mid march

[Saints43]

I think it was as simple as:

In: Cousins
Out: McQualter (or similar)
Cost: Very little

Portraying everybody else's arguments more outlandish doesn't make yours appear more sensible.

McQualter has done more for the Stkilda football club than BC ever has. I think some peoples lack of respect is shameful.

Just out of interest what has McQualter done for St Kilda? Serious question. I would have thought the ledger would would firmly be in credit for the club rather than the other way.

edit: Clearly he has done more for the club than BC. But I'd reckon only just. Is that disrespectful?

[sainteronline]

didn't do the tan and even the most excited tigers fans are honest enough to admit that he is 2 months away from proper fitness..... watch those hammy's do in mid march

two months away from proper fitness

when does the real season start

B-sides it's a marathon and not a sprint to the grand final

i always got told it was bad manners and bad sportsmanship to wish injury on opposition players

seems to me you can't wait though can you

pretty poor sportsmanship if you have to wish injury on a player to prove your point

don't forget harves had trouble at his age to, still played for another what 3-4 years

like I said just marketing and publicity

we would have came up smelling like roses

Sacred Heart Mission alone

B-sides let me see

March, April, May, June, July, August,

good chance that he might be over them by September

[Solar]

didn't do the tan and even the most excited tigers fans are honest enough to admit that he is 2 months away from proper fitness..... watch those hammy's do in mid march

two months away from proper fitness

when does the real season start

B-sides it's a marathon and not a sprint to the grand final

i always got told it was bad manners and bad sportsmanship to wish injury on opposition players

seems to me you can't wait though can you

pretty poor sportsmanship if you have to wish injury on a player to prove your point

don't forget harves had trouble at his age to, still played for another what 3-4 years

like I said just marketing and publicity

we would have came up smelling like roses

Sacred Heart Mission alone

B-sides let me see

March, April, May, June, July, August,

good chance that he might be over them by September

don't let facts get in the way but

1) most within AFL circles believe that you cannot compete at this high level these days without a good pre-season.. See some of our players as examples of how no pre-season can lead to very low output during the season proper..... 3-4 years? Lets see if his body can get back to what it was... the jury is very much out on that

2) never wished an injury on him "mate". Thats called mis-quoting. All I said was "watch those hammy's do mid march". This comment was based on the lower fitness base BC is coming off. Thats not wishing injury on a player, unlike some I just call it how I see and then let it upfold (unlike some who want to see a tigers player get 40 posies and win the game when playing us).

It was a gamble either way.

[Mr Magic]

No I think it would be better that he found a new hobby horse to prattle on about.
His hero worship of/love for Ben Cousins is bordering on an unhealthy obsession that shows no sense of reality on this particular poster's behalf.
He lurches from 1 delusion to another in his quest to turn saintsational into a BC hero worship site.

At least when his rantings were confined to the 'opposition forum' they could be avoided.

Mods, please move this thread to the Opposition Forum as this particular poster has turned it into another BC thread.

are you going to join this discussion, with something even resembling something worthwhile

or just sit there and sling mud

It's not possible to discuss/debate with somneone whose
eyes are closed
ears are covered
mouth is open.

On this topic that's exactly what you are.

It's a pointless exercise, posters might as well talk to a mirror instead of trying to post rational comments to you to debate. You don't want to see, hear or read any perspective other than your own narrow-minded view.

The decision was made - get over it or at least wait until the descision is proved right or wrong.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

regardless of ben cousins at richmond how could anyone non-richmond either respect richmond or ever be jealous of it???

they have somehow had less finals actions than us in 27 years or so which is saying something.....

so they got cousins...now the faithful have two players they can lament over for not being 5 years younger when their 'stars' get into their prime...cousins and richo...

the tigers might make it into the 8, but as soon as either one or both of them retire...back to garbage they go...

[sainteronline]

don't let facts get in the way but

1) most within AFL circles believe that you cannot compete at this high level these days without a good pre-season.. See some of our players as examples of how no pre-season can lead to very low output during the season proper..... 3-4 years? Lets see if his body can get back to what it was... the jury is very much out on that (like I said the grand final is a marathon not a sprint, you don't win the grand final in March, how many games do you think would be a good return on their investment, considering they got him at bargain basement, personally I think he will play at least 14 games plus finals)
2) never wished an injury on him "mate". Thats called mis-quoting. All I said was "watch those hammy's do mid march". This comment was based on the lower fitness base BC is coming off. Thats not wishing injury on a player, unlike some I just call it how I see and then let it upfold (unlike some who want to see a tigers player get 40 posies and win the game when playing us). (Sounded a lot like wishful thinking to me, anyway like I have said just above, March gives him plenty of time to get over it and I'm pretty sure they will be closely monitoring his hamstrings)

It was a gamble either way.

a gamble we never took

so considering what they got BC for

what do you think would be a good return on their investment?

like I have said I think he will play at least 14 games plus finals

[sainteronline]

It's not possible to discuss/debate with somneone whose
eyes are closed (actually they are open, I unlike you can see when I am being railroaded)
ears are covered (actually ears are open to, have been talking to a lot of opposition supporters, who agree with me that he would have been a perfect fit and they can't understand why we didn't pick him up either)
mouth is open. (Only when replying or eating or drinking)

On this topic that's exactly what you are. (Actually I could say the same about you, depends on your point of view really)

It's a pointless exercise, posters might as well talk to a mirror instead of trying to post rational comments to you to debate (how would you know you have never posted a rational comment in this debate). You don't want to see, hear or read any perspective other than your own narrow-minded view.
(See above)
The decision was made - get over it or at least wait until the descision is proved right or wrong.

maybe you should read the threads I am only replying to what people have already posted, do you see my name at the start of this thread?

[Mr Magic]

It's not possible to discuss/debate with somneone whose
eyes are closed (actually they are open, I unlike you can see when I am being railroaded)
ears are covered (actually ears are open to, have been talking to a lot of opposition supporters, who agree with me that he would have been a perfect fit and they can't understand why we didn't pick him up either)
mouth is open. (Only when replying or eating or drinking)

On this topic that's exactly what you are. (Actually I could say the same about you, depends on your point of view really)

It's a pointless exercise, posters might as well talk to a mirror instead of trying to post rational comments to you to debate (how would you know you have never posted a rational comment in this debate). You don't want to see, hear or read any perspective other than your own narrow-minded view.
(See above)
The decision was made - get over it or at least wait until the descision is proved right or wrong.

maybe you should read the threads I am only replying to what people have already posted, do you see my name at the start of this thread?

There are none so blind as he who will not see.

[sainteronline]

regardless of ben cousins at richmond how could anyone non-richmond either respect richmond or ever be jealous of it???

they have somehow had less finals actions than us in 27 years or so which is saying something.....

so they got cousins...now the faithful have two players they can lament over for not being 5 years younger when their 'stars' get into their prime...cousins and richo...

the tigers might make it into the 8, but as soon as either one or both of them retire...back to garbage they go...

then we could be in trouble all so

Gardner, Max, king, Baker, hayes, even Steven Milne is getting it up there in age

[InkerSaint]

a gamble we never took

Wrong, the Saints did take a gamble. They gambled against him.

Richmond got him for PSD pick 6 and a spot on their list - which is about the same as what it would have cost the Saints. As for what Richmond get out of it - they're in a different position list-wise. The comparison is worthless.

[sainteronline]

It's not possible to discuss/debate with somneone whose
eyes are closed (actually they are open, I unlike you can see when I am being railroaded)
ears are covered (actually ears are open to, have been talking to a lot of opposition supporters, who agree with me that he would have been a perfect fit and they can't understand why we didn't pick him up either)
mouth is open. (Only when replying or eating or drinking)

On this topic that's exactly what you are. (Actually I could say the same about you, depends on your point of view really)

It's a pointless exercise, posters might as well talk to a mirror instead of trying to post rational comments to you to debate (how would you know you have never posted a rational comment in this debate). You don't want to see, hear or read any perspective other than your own narrow-minded view.
(See above)
The decision was made - get over it or at least wait until the descision is proved right or wrong.

maybe you should read the threads I am only replying to what people have already posted, do you see my name at the start of this thread?

There are none so blind as he who will not see.

touche

that was very insightful and had a lot to do with a discussion

if that's the best you've got

I'm rubber you're glue everything you say bounces back and sticks to you
(childish I know but, ridiculous statement because I can turn that around and say exactly the same thing about you)

you refuse to see that we are being railroaded

and treated like sheep

dimwit is the AFL equivalent of Vince McMahon

and he had our board running scared

[Mr Magic]

It's not possible to discuss/debate with somneone whose
eyes are closed (actually they are open, I unlike you can see when I am being railroaded)
ears are covered (actually ears are open to, have been talking to a lot of opposition supporters, who agree with me that he would have been a perfect fit and they can't understand why we didn't pick him up either)
mouth is open. (Only when replying or eating or drinking)

On this topic that's exactly what you are. (Actually I could say the same about you, depends on your point of view really)

It's a pointless exercise, posters might as well talk to a mirror instead of trying to post rational comments to you to debate (how would you know you have never posted a rational comment in this debate). You don't want to see, hear or read any perspective other than your own narrow-minded view.
(See above)
The decision was made - get over it or at least wait until the descision is proved right or wrong.

maybe you should read the threads I am only replying to what people have already posted, do you see my name at the start of this thread?

There are none so blind as he who will not see.

touche

that was very insightful and had a lot to do with a discussion

if that's the best you've got

I'm rubber you're glue everything you say bounces back and sticks to you
(childish I know but, ridiculous statement because I can turn that around and say exactly the same thing about you)

you refuse to see that we are being railroaded

and treated like sheep

dimwit is the AFL equivalent of Vince McMahon

and he had our board running scared

Just a question?
How long are you going to carry on like this over a decision not to recruit a player (recovering drug addict with suspect hamstrings) 2 months ago?
weeks?
months?
years?
decades?

Given that you're going apesh1t over this maybe I can ask another question that will set you off on a 'rampage'?

Do you think the Club (Butters) did the right thing in sacking Grant Thomas?

Hopefully you'll go off on a tirade about this and cease the Ben Cousins 'campaign'?

[sainteronline]

a gamble we never took

Wrong, the Saints did take a gamble. They gambled against him.

Richmond got him for PSD pick 6 and a spot on their list - which is about the same as what it would have cost the Saints. As for what Richmond get out of it - they're in a different position list-wise. The comparison is worthless.

if I am going to put money on horse and then decide at the last moment not to bet on that horse

I'd say that's a gamble I never took

if you are saying that they took a gamble on not picking him up

I would say you are correct

and as a bit of a gambler myself (Love my Texas hold em)

I would say it was a gamble that they were bluffed out of

a wise man once told me

sometimes in life you make decisions that you have the feeling will come back and bite you

I have a feeling this is one that our board has made

[sainteronline]

Just a question?
How long are you going to carry on like this over a decision not to recruit a player (recovering drug addict with suspect hamstrings) 2 months ago?
weeks?
months?
years?
decades? (So now I am carrying on because I reply to other people's statements on a decision that I do not think was correct)

Given that you're going apesh1t over this maybe I can ask another question that will set you off on a 'rampage'? (So now because I reply to statements I am going on a rampage, talk about sensationalism)

Do you think the Club (Butters) did the right thing in sacking Grant Thomas? (Yes, if the reasons they gave were correct in the media, which by the way was a lot more comprehensive than "confidential information")

Hopefully you'll go off on a tirade about this and cease the Ben Cousins 'campaign'?

I wouldn't call it a campaign

and if you were to call it a campaign

it's a campaign to make sure that the board don't make (IMHO) more decisions that hinder us from getting a flag (IMHO)

maybe you like the idea of languishing at the preliminary final stage

I don't