Banger, Holding The Club Back?

[Warren Farkovski]

we'll call it 0-0 at 1/2 time on that score shall we.

I think you'll find many Carlton supporters come on here because you're hilarious. Threads having a crack at Harvey and Riewoldt just reinforces this. Two absolute champions of your club and the game. We love our past champs, even the ones who go to be an assistant coach with your lot. We revere them.

Ah well. Good luck this year.

Do you lot still love Hamill


F*** off moron

Oh yeh - we love how he ripped you off for 8 years.

[Sainterman]

To tell you the truth I don't know why I replied to this thread

because anybody who says that Harvey stayed too long

or is a selfish player

or even once put himself above the team

is not worth replying to

their footballing intellect is bordering on stupidity (IMHO)

or they just like to see their name and thread at the top of the forum

I will no longer reply to any posts on this matter

or even read this thread again

Well said. What a joke of a thread! It invites trolls! How anyone can question whether Harves was holding us back is off their head. Was Crawf holding the Hawks back? Did Bradley hold Carlton back? Surely experience counts for something, and surely some of that knowledge is passed on each and every time Harves went into battle for us.

Some of the things written on here...sheesh!

[markp]

To tell you the truth I don't know why I replied to this thread

because anybody who says that Harvey stayed too long

or is a selfish player

or even once put himself above the team

is not worth replying to

their footballing intellect is bordering on stupidity (IMHO)

or they just like to see their name and thread at the top of the forum

I will no longer reply to any posts on this matter

or even read this thread again

Well said. What a joke of a thread! It invites trolls! How anyone can question whether Harves was holding us back is off their head. Was Crawf holding the Hawks back? Did Bradley hold Carlton back? Surely experience counts for something, and surely some of that knowledge is passed on each and every time Harves went into battle for us.

Some of the things written on here...sheesh!

Na, we have a messiah-complex (:idea: potential name for our new training facility?) and it has cost us many flags.

To be a successful club we should stop celebrating our champions... it's just so obvious.

Thankfully we have a few supporters who are willing to point out such things (along with how crap we are) at every available opportunity.... this can only help.

Go Saints.

[sunsaint]

The gist of my argument is that we do go a bit over the top (as do other clubs IMO) when it comes to hero worship of individuals. It's an undeniable fact of life. And to deny that some people went over the top with BC is ludicrous... just witness the 20 page thread fron a few weeks ago.

And don't ask me what I'm on today, ffs.

there you go...again.
the fact that BC generated 20 pages had little to do with hero worship, in fact I would it was the exact opposite of hero worship.
It was simply most knew what he would bring to the Saints on field, the players knew it. But you didnt.
And as for stating that Thommo and Peckett were hacks, well that just says it all. WJ42 and SP2008 must be related somehow...

[WayneJudson42]

The gist of my argument is that we do go a bit over the top (as do other clubs IMO) when it comes to hero worship of individuals. It's an undeniable fact of life. And to deny that some people went over the top with BC is ludicrous... just witness the 20 page thread fron a few weeks ago.

And don't ask me what I'm on today, ffs.

there you go...again.
the fact that BC generated 20 pages had little to do with hero worship, in fact I would it was the exact opposite of hero worship.
It was simply most knew what he would bring to the Saints on field, the players knew it. But you didnt.
And as for stating that Thommo and Peckett were hacks, well that just says it all. WJ42 and SP2008 must be related somehow...

Wow, a regular Professor Havenacker. Pardon me.

It generated 20 pages because pea brained supporters were angry that we didn't take him. They were p1ssed off... some even vowed to tear up their memberships over a player who's 1st chouce would be to go the Eagles, and that was never a Saint.

Take look back a few pages... "Give him #9" "Ben is the missing piece that will help us win a flag" etc.

For the record, I wanted BC for hwat he could bring to the club, and stated this many times... so get your facts right before mouthing off.

Thommo and Peckett were good players in their prime, and ok when they retired. Once again, you are soooooooooo clever that you miss the point entirley.

They went past their use by date... and by playing them, we missed an opportunity to develop some kids... which we couldn't do because we recruited hacks. Simple enough for you?

Harvey is a legend AFAIAC. That he could still get a game in 09 is an indictment on recruiting and development. Saints aside, which top 8 team would give him a run next year?

FWIW, I've been around this clud far too long to see the Messiah complex at work. Players got away with murder, and the admin was too gutless to rock the boat. And any coach that tried to make a tough call, got the @rse.

Here's a short list from the "Messiah's Hall of Fame"...

Lindsay Fox
Mike Patterson
Tony Lockett
Gary Sidebottom
A Jesaulanko
M Blight
D Baldock

Feel free to add anyone you might think of.

BTW: SP2008 make some abrupt remarks... but often speaks sense.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

The gist of my argument is that we do go a bit over the top (as do other clubs IMO) when it comes to hero worship of individuals. It's an undeniable fact of life. And to deny that some people went over the top with BC is ludicrous... just witness the 20 page thread fron a few weeks ago.

And don't ask me what I'm on today, ffs.

there you go...again.
the fact that BC generated 20 pages had little to do with hero worship, in fact I would it was the exact opposite of hero worship.
It was simply most knew what he would bring to the Saints on field, the players knew it. But you didnt.
And as for stating that Thommo and Peckett were hacks, well that just says it all. WJ42 and SP2008 must be related somehow...

Wow, a regular Professor Havenacker. Pardon me.

It generated 20 pages because pea brained supporters were angry that we didn't take him. They were p1ssed off... some even vowed to tear up their memberships over a player who's 1st chouce would be to go the Eagles, and that was never a Saint.

Take look back a few pages... "Give him #9" "Ben is the missing piece that will help us win a flag" etc.

For the record, I wanted BC for hwat he could bring to the club, and stated this many times... so get your facts right before mouthing off.

Thommo and Peckett were good players in their prime, and ok when they retired. Once again, you are soooooooooo clever that you miss the point entirley.

They went past their use by date... and by playing them, we missed an opportunity to develop some kids... which we couldn't do because we recruited hacks. Simple enough for you?

Harvey is a legend AFAIAC. That he could still get a game in 09 is an indictment on recruiting and development. Saints aside, which top 8 team would give him a run next year?

FWIW, I've been around this clud far too long to see the Messiah complex at work. Players got away with murder, and the admin was too gutless to rock the boat. And any coach that tried to make a tough call, got the @rse.

Here's a short list from the "Messiah's Hall of Fame"...

Lindsay Fox
Mike Patterson
Tony Lockett
Gary Sidebottom
A Jesaulanko
M Blight
D Baldock

Feel free to add anyone you might think of.

BTW: SP2008 make some abrupt remarks... but often speaks sense.

i know i speak sense...but ta wayno...

a select few imo could actually do something for this club if put in a position to...some on here hold onto mislaid tradtions and loves for certain peoples...get caught up in the hoo-haa and most often loose focus of the biger picture a flag

its okay to be a traditionalist to a degree...but when one cannot look at the other side of the arguement it isn't going to make us a success....

i just hope that when we do win a flag supporters change their perspective...i envy carlton and their arrogance...the bombers are in the business of winning flags...supporters demand success...its what port is built on...albeit a smaller supporter base the loyal's expect success and so they should

why do we classify this year as a good year??? because we don't expect total success...the orgasm of playing football and supporting it...a flag

too often supporters on here expect us to be 6-6 going into the break and then expect us to magically come home with a wet sail and demolish all that is put before them...despite playing teams that slaughtered them earlier in the year

why????

because we don't know success and have some romantic notion of it...we don't know how to win and its sad for football community but the sooner everyone (board and supporters) adopt a ruthless succeed or get the f out policy the better...

sir bob was great...no doubting however its going to be utterly hilarious watching roo become the new bobby...its not good...the fact is if we win a flag in the next three years he can go to the gold coast...we will at least a top 3 pick and another first rounder for him so it makes sense business-wise...just an example of using ones' heart over head...something that we are too used to doing...

[markp]

If we could only harness the brain-power this site generates sometimes....

[WayneJudson42]

If we could only harness the brain-power this site generates sometimes....

Could we light a 3 watt globe?

[SAINT JUMP]

if you think about it, it was jones and eddy first year playing afl, on a permant basis. i thought they had a good year. once you guys dont like a player or players, they cant do any think right. stop putting players down, until you can or have done better. i hope they all have a good year. some of the classey ones need to lift their game too. in the eyes of some supporters, the better players can get away with anythink. the likes of eddy and co, havent been the reason for us not winning, a flag over the past decade.

[markp]

If we could only harness the brain-power this site generates sometimes....

Could we light a 3 watt globe?

On a very good day... maybe.

What wattage are xmas tree lights?

[Shaggy]

Stupid thread.

Warren Farkovski makes the most sense

[WayneJudson42]

In fairness to the OP, it was a question. Perhaps it could have been worded differently. And he's / she's entitled to his/her view like the rest of us.

It is alarming though, that people cannot express opinions on club greats without being hung for treason.

I still don't like idol worshipping... or any kind of doll worshipping for that matter.

Viva La Democracie!

[WayneJudson42]

If we could only harness the brain-power this site generates sometimes....

Could we light a 3 watt globe?

On a very good day... maybe.

What wattage are xmas tree lights?

Yeah, but the methane produced could burn the F*** out of a 6 burner barbie for about 2 weeks IMO.

[Shaggy]

In fairness to the OP, it was a question. Perhaps it could have been worded differently. And he's / she's entitled to his/her view like the rest of us.

It is alarming though, that people cannot express opinions on club greats without being hung for treason.

I still don't like idol worshipping... or any kind of doll worshipping for that matter.

Viva La Democracie!

So Banger and Roo are our problem is 00's.

Banger, Plugger and Nicky were our problem in the 90's.

Barks, Joffa and Burnsy were our problem in the 80's.

Big Carl, Smithy, Lawrence and McIntosh were our problems in the 70's.

The 60's I blame Stewart, the Doc (Jeans as well).

Roberts can take some crap for the 50's.

IMO thank you to all the above for everything and no I do not blame them that others have not been able to emulate their feats.

[st.byron]

So Banger and Roo are our problem is 00's.

Banger, Plugger and Nicky were our problem in the 90's.

Barks, Joffa and Burnsy were our problem in the 80's.

Big Carl, Smithy, Lawrence and McIntosh were our problems in the 70's.

The 60's I blame Stewart, the Doc (Jeans as well).

Roberts can take some crap for the 50's.

We would have throttled the 30's if it wasn't for bloody Bill Mohr.

[Pilgram]

Carlton has a new King. His name, Robert Harvey.
The Captains of Industry can have him in my opinion.
And when the cardboard castle FOLDS we all know where our man will be ... BACK in Seaford!

[WayneJudson42]

In fairness to the OP, it was a question. Perhaps it could have been worded differently. And he's / she's entitled to his/her view like the rest of us.

It is alarming though, that people cannot express opinions on club greats without being hung for treason.

I still don't like idol worshipping... or any kind of doll worshipping for that matter.

Viva La Democracie!

So Banger and Roo are our problem is 00's.

Banger, Plugger and Nicky were our problem in the 90's.

Barks, Joffa and Burnsy were our problem in the 80's.

Big Carl, Smithy, Lawrence and McIntosh were our problems in the 70's.

The 60's I blame Stewart, the Doc (Jeans as well).

Roberts can take some crap for the 50's.

IMO thank you to all the above for everything and no I do not blame them that others have not been able to emulate their feats.

And your point being? Your post has nothing to do with what you quoted me on.

Where did I say Roo is holding us back? Where did I say Banger was holding us back. Champion that he was, he was still 1 individual in a team.

Plugger ran amok and was still the 1st player picked every week. Yet players who were disciplined and dedicated never got a game. Gee that would have been great for team morale.

And no one had the guts to pull him into line out of fear that he'd walk. We had to beg him to stay and offer the Captaincy in the end... and he still walked.

And what about Nicky's walk out and subsequent destruction of our season?? Or his bender with Plugger after we lost in 98? WHere was the great champion's consideration for his team mates and professionalism then?

If you believe that this club has a history of prefessionalism along the lines of Essendon for example... then you are delusional. There is a reason for our lack of success. Part of the blame lays with some players... part with admin.. part with coaches... and part with supporters who reckon that certain players cannot be spoken about because any alternative opinion is blasephemy.

Nooooooooooooo! Don't talk about 35 unless you say all nice things such as "he was the greatest ever athlete to walk the earth". We do not have the right to talk about champions... unless of course they play or another club... In which case, we can say what we want, and call them FIGJAM or arrogant, or whatever.

How dare a coach compare 35 to Bradley!!!!! Hang him high!

Get a grip. FFS. Agree to disagree with people's view... but get a grip none the less.

[Pilgram]

FWIW i like your attitude Wayne and that of SP08.

on robert harvey.
everyone knows that harves is very light-on the advice department.
so they can pay him what he is worth as an assistant can they? big deal. it's a gig.
the funny part? harves is the only saint that can remember back to when carlton used to beat st. kilda and he is exactly that .. a saint.
the seaford build cant come soon enough for banger.

so where does all this leave carlton? well, who cares.
i give judd two, max. three years.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

FWIW i like your attitude Wayne and that of SP08.

on robert harvey.
everyone knows that harves is very light-on the advice department.
so they can pay him what he is worth as an assistant can they? big deal. it's a gig.
the funny part? harves is the only saint that can remember back to when carlton used to beat st. kilda and he is exactly that .. a saint.
the seaford build cant come soon enough for banger.

so where does all this leave carlton? well, who cares.
i give judd two, max. three years.

judd is an out and out star and there is no doubting he will have a much longer career than 1-3 years...look at carey...his shoulders were always suspect yet he delivered the goods time and time again

and i agree...who cares about carlton...that means who cars about robert harvey...

[Warren Farkovski]

gobsmacked.

For Harvey I read Silvagni to get a comparison - I can't think of any Carlton supporter who does not wish SOS well, thanks him for the fantastic memories and looks forward to a time when a Silvagni junior might be wearing the No. 1 jumper again.

Welcome to the club Banger.

[markp]

who cares about carlton...that means who cars about robert harvey...

You really are king douche.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

who cares about carlton...that means who cars about robert harvey...

You really are king douche.

no not really...ta for the memories but you are part of the opposition now so have fun with that

[WayneJudson42]

gobsmacked.

For Harvey I read Silvagni to get a comparison - I can't think of any Carlton supporter who does not wish SOS well, thanks him for the fantastic memories and looks forward to a time when a Silvagni junior might be wearing the No. 1 jumper again.

Welcome to the club Banger.

I still ove HArvey, and wish him al the best, whatever path he follows.

Problem is that people are taking this thread out of conext. I doubt anyone disputes what a great champ Harver was. Some of us get p1ssed that we cannot discuss issues that appear to be "taboo".

For example, when Lyon compared hin to Bradley (whom I reckon was a champ) and supporters were screaming because "how dare he" compare the great man with Bradley.

Sadly, some people let emotions rule their thoughts, and howl down those who prefer to discuss alternative views.

That's my point.

FWIW, once again, I disagree with parts of the OP's view. I think it was ill-conceived and badly put. But I'm not going to howl him down for expressing his view.

The merits of Harvey, Judd, Buddy, Ablett etc are not above criticism, same as any other player in the AFL.

However, if that criticism is pure BS as to the players abilities etc, then it would be just that... BS.

[markp]

who cares about carlton...that means who cars about robert harvey...

You really are king douche.

no not really...ta for the memories but you are part of the opposition now so have fun with that

Err... yeah, really.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

who cares about carlton...that means who cars about robert harvey...

You really are king douche.

no not really...ta for the memories but you are part of the opposition now so have fun with that

Err... yeah, really.

err...yeh...nah...

oh wait we cannot say anything about 'the great man' apart from the fact he is the....'great man'?