Banger, Holding The Club Back?

[bob__71]

it should be illegal to say such things about the great man!

In a nutshell.....Any one person being bigger than the team is not good for team dynamics. It's not bangers fault. But it is a problem with a team that has had no success.

And BTW part of the reason Brown and Hird are admired by their supporters is because they helped win premierships for their team. Sadly Banger has not.

[WayneJudson42]

My view on her worshiping has more to do with our club allowing indiviuals to become bigger than the team... and a failure to stop the tail wagging the dog in years gone by.

Frankly, I reckon this has now been eliminated with the dropping of Dal this year.

Harvey has not held us back in 08... we weren't good enough. Period.

The gist of my argument is that we do go a bit over the top (as do other clubs IMO) when it comes to hero worship of individuals. It's an undeniable fact of life. And to deny that some people went over the top with BC is ludicrous... just witness the 20 page thread fron a few weeks ago.

FWIW, I do not "worship" anyone. But I do have a strong respect for certain individuals. Idol worshipping automatically creates an unrealistic measuring stick for yourself... and how you see yourself.

Just like the term "Battler" which we seem to wear with pride. To me, declaring yourself a "battler" is a dcleration that you're never going to achieve your maximum potential.

But that's just me. To each their own.

And don't ask me what I'm on today, ffs.

[WayneJudson42]

However, Lyon and the club hierarchy were of a similar mindset to some of the sillier posters on this forum and were therefore happy to see Harves go (and perhaps - although I hope this was not the case - they were already looking to bring Cousins to the club and thought that they wouldn't need both Harves and him).

What silly mindset do you refer to? That the current coahing team has made decisions based on long term success? Or that an over reliance on one player to be in your top 5 is unhealthy?

Herein lies the problem. People have stated that Blight would have ripped the soul out of the club had he stayed on... yet maybe, some tough decisions like he took in Adelaide might have seen us win a flag by now.

No single player is sacrosanct IMO. No matter how good.

Like it or not, we had to prepare for life after Harvey. Where do you draw the line?

[bob__71]

One thing that does ring true (to me) from the thread is that Harves towards the end was in it for him. If he had of extended his career so that he could play for the team he loves that would be one thing. But he played his last few years to try and get his hands on the cup. He stated many times that had we won a premiership he would retire. Nothing wrong with wanting one, but in the end winning a premiership would have meant the end of Harves, and I think that was a burden for him to place on his team mates shoulders. (What do you think each and every one of the players out there and in every team are playing for, to do exactly the same thing, hold up the premiership cup,before they retire)
Harves was a great player for the club, but he owes St Kilda just as much as St Kilda owes him, nothing. And he is at Carlton now anyways.(?)

OK big red writing man, whats the question mark about, do you think Robert Harvey thinks the club owes him anything? The club gave him a chance to play the game he loved for so many years. Many other clubs would of retired him much earlier, and not spent so much time topping up to have another crack for Harves. And in the same way Harves owes nothing to the club. It was a mutual path they followed but to no avail.

And I dont Agree totally with your other critisism. Players would play the game for many different reasons. Mostly they all play to win, which ever game of the year it may be. They play to win because of the respect/love of their team mates. Apart from a few exceptions they dont play an extra season so that they get a premiership cup. They play another season because they love their team mates and want to have a crack with them again.

The question in the end is were they still Harves team mates...or did those guys leave long ago.

Will anyone here enjoy a premiership less next year because Harves is not there? well except MB but he just whinges a lot.

[markp]

We'd have won many many flags by now if it wasn't for Harvey, and our cult-like Harvey worship.

We should take a leaf out of the book of the teams above us, and not turn any of our players into heroes... then we'll win flags as they have.

F*** me.

[ace]

In Thailand they throw people in jail for saying bad things against the monarchy.
Some people are lucky we don't have similar laws in St Kilda.

I saw Robert (Rodney) Harvey play his early games.
Players got paid only a fraction of what they get paid today.
The young kids on the team today just don't want the ball like young Harvey, they just want the money.

It is not Harvey's fault he does not have a premiership medal.
It is the fault of the young kids who do not want one as much as Harvey did.

[meher baba]

However, Lyon and the club hierarchy were of a similar mindset to some of the sillier posters on this forum and were therefore happy to see Harves go (and perhaps - although I hope this was not the case - they were already looking to bring Cousins to the club and thought that they wouldn't need both Harves and him).

What silly mindset do you refer to? That the current coahing team has made decisions based on long term success? Or that an over reliance on one player to be in your top 5 is unhealthy?

Herein lies the problem. People have stated that Blight would have ripped the soul out of the club had he stayed on... yet maybe, some tough decisions like he took in Adelaide might have seen us win a flag by now.

No single player is sacrosanct IMO. No matter how good.

Like it or not, we had to prepare for life after Harvey. Where do you draw the line?

With a high output player of Harvey's type, I would draw the line at the point at which either his form does not justify his selection in the top 22 (and that wasn't the case during 2008) or when he confirms that he has had enough.

I read post after post on here about "clearing out the dead wood", "getting rid of the players who will never take us to a premiership", "taking the tough decisions", etc.

Then I look at our actual list after the massive number of delistings and retirements under Lyon (20 odd in the space of 2 years) and - as I said in my earlier post - I see barely 30 guys of genuine AFL standard.

In the games in which he played fully fit during 2008, Harves contributed far more than Jones, Eddy, McQualter, Geary, Armitage, Allen, Begley, etc. will ever contribute. As a veteran, Harves had a minimal impact on our salary cap.

As far as I am concerned, he could have stayed on our list for another 5 years. If he was fit enough to play, he certainly would have been good enough. For more than a decade, he has provided a superb role model for every young player joining the club.

AFL is not cricket or soccer. It is a game which requires 22 fit players each week and where there is a relatively high injury rate. Competition for spots in the top 22 at most clubs is not particularly intense for most of each season. Over the course of over 4 decades of watching AFL, I have seen, on average, only 1 player where I've thought "why has it taken him so long to make it to the seniors" for every 100 where I've thought "this guy isn't ready/will never be ready to play AFL".

[Batnoe]

i can tell you what is holding us back....


the pieces of s*** that got delisted, if they were of Geelongs 20-30 range we would win the flag... Our top 15 are as good as any and then it falls away


Why was our list like this? Because of bloody GT

harvey didnt hold us back- GT did, we are rebuilding

[Warren Farkovski]

this thred is joke yes?

is same thouw pehaps as when Farkov was in Moldova this was holding me bak from sleaping with the Jennifer Hawkins. Now I am in this counntry Australia look out Jennifer nothing will hold us bak.

[Pilgram]

messiah syndrome

i am so proud of you SP

[Pilgram]

We'd have won many many flags by now if it wasn't for Harvey, and our cult-like Harvey worship.

We should take a leaf out of the book of the teams above us, and not turn any of our players into heroes... then we'll win flags as they have.

F*** me.

exactly.
twenty-one years is a generation.
buddy was still in a nappy when banger played his first game of VFL.
this is a new generation for st. kilda and time for that flag.

[saintspremiers]

i can tell you what is holding us back....


the pieces of s*** that got delisted, if they were of Geelongs 20-30 range we would win the flag... Our top 15 are as good as any and then it falls away


Why was our list like this? Because of bloody GT

harvey didnt hold us back- GT did, we are rebuilding

Correct.

10/10.

Go to the top of the class.....I reckon you have closed the case on this post and all the postulating it entailed.

[WayneJudson42]

i can tell you what is holding us back....


the pieces of s*** that got delisted, if they were of Geelongs 20-30 range we would win the flag... Our top 15 are as good as any and then it falls away


Why was our list like this? Because of bloody GT

harvey didnt hold us back- GT did, we are rebuilding

Correct.

10/10.

Go to the top of the class.....I reckon you have closed the case on this post and all the postulating it entailed.

WTF is "postulation"?

Is it what postmen do behind the post office?

[St Fidelius]

this thred is joke yes?

is same thouw pehaps as when Farkov was in Moldova this was holding me bak from sleaping with the Jennifer Hawkins. Now I am in this counntry Australia look out Jennifer nothing will hold us bak.

All of you posts to date are a joke IMO.

Why don't you stop with the fake why you type, I for one don't see any humour in it at all

[WayneJudson42]

this thred is joke yes?

is same thouw pehaps as when Farkov was in Moldova this was holding me bak from sleaping with the Jennifer Hawkins. Now I am in this counntry Australia look out Jennifer nothing will hold us bak.

All of you posts to date are a joke IMO.

Why don't you stop with the fake why you type, I for one don't see any humour in it at all

Are you suggesting that he should farkov?

[Warren Farkovski]

this thred is joke yes?

is same thouw pehaps as when Farkov was in Moldova this was holding me bak from sleaping with the Jennifer Hawkins. Now I am in this counntry Australia look out Jennifer nothing will hold us bak.

All of you posts to date are a joke IMO.

Why don't you stop with the fake why you type, I for one don't see any humour in it at all

there is humour all around you my boy - especially here!

[St Fidelius]

this thred is joke yes?

is same thouw pehaps as when Farkov was in Moldova this was holding me bak from sleaping with the Jennifer Hawkins. Now I am in this counntry Australia look out Jennifer nothing will hold us bak.

All of you posts to date are a joke IMO.

Why don't you stop with the fake why you type, I for one don't see any humour in it at all

Are you suggesting that he should farkov?

Yeah, I've just checked his profile and not one of his 9 posts have any value and his attempt to be humorous is grating.

Go on then, farkov

[WayneJudson42]

I read post after post on here about "clearing out the dead wood", "getting rid of the players who will never take us to a premiership", "taking the tough decisions", etc.

Then I look at our actual list after the massive number of delistings and retirements under Lyon (20 odd in the space of 2 years) and - as I said in my earlier post - I see barely 30 guys of genuine AFL standard.


So you reckon that keeping 35 would sove the problem? These players you mention have to step up... simple. If they don't, then they'll also be cut.

RL has made changes to the list, which should have been happening since 2005. All we did was top up with hacks IMO. Instead of injecting fresh talent, we persisted with Powell, Peckett and Thommo... too long.

What should we do? Keep the old guard going? Even if he wanted to keep playing, but the club decided that they wanted a new direction... then they made the right call.

Harvey's gone. Move on.

Perhaps Pilgram can clarify his remarks...

[Warren Farkovski]

this thred is joke yes?

is same thouw pehaps as when Farkov was in Moldova this was holding me bak from sleaping with the Jennifer Hawkins. Now I am in this counntry Australia look out Jennifer nothing will hold us bak.

All of you posts to date are a joke IMO.

Why don't you stop with the fake why you type, I for one don't see any humour in it at all

Are you suggesting that he should farkov?

Yeah, I've just checked his profile and not one of his 9 posts have any value and his attempt to be humorous is grating.

Go on then, farkov

fair enough - I honestly thought the thread was a joke. Anyway we're happy to have Banger at CFC.

Perhaps the biggest joke thread tho is "Is Reiwoldt a marshmallow?".

Too funny.

Farkov over and outski

Yehshamesh

[Armoooo]

Sacha Baron Cohen has a lot to answer for IMO...

[WayneJudson42]

this thred is joke yes?

is same thouw pehaps as when Farkov was in Moldova this was holding me bak from sleaping with the Jennifer Hawkins. Now I am in this counntry Australia look out Jennifer nothing will hold us bak.

All of you posts to date are a joke IMO.

Why don't you stop with the fake why you type, I for one don't see any humour in it at all

Are you suggesting that he should farkov?

Yeah, I've just checked his profile and not one of his 9 posts have any value and his attempt to be humorous is grating.

Go on then, farkov

fair enough - I honestly thought the thread was a joke. Anyway we're happy to have Banger at CFC.

Perhaps the biggest joke thread tho is "Is Reiwoldt a marshmallow?".

Too funny.

Farkov over and outski

Yehshamesh

Hmmm. U got Harvey and Ackland... We got Goddard. Yep... you win.

Any Carlton supporter who has to troll opposition forums is a joke... especially after being torn a new one 11 times in a row by this wonderful club formaly known as a rabble.

Ah yes, it reminds me of the good old days when we'd celebtrate a win because it was so rare. So I can understand why winning half a dozen games after losing so many on trot would give Blues supporters an instant erection (male and female ones).

What's that club motto again? "Corruptionus Winsus Flagsus".

[St Fidelius]

Yeah, just why do Carlton supporters love to come on this site???

F*** OFF Farkovski.....

Your posts are useless and your vein attempt at humour is a waste of effort.

Go back to your Carlton forum, the may appreciate it more than us...

although I would doubt it...

Try it though, and F*** off from here, unless you have got something decent to say

[sainteronline]

To tell you the truth I don't know why I replied to this thread

because anybody who says that Harvey stayed too long

or is a selfish player

or even once put himself above the team

is not worth replying to

their footballing intellect is bordering on stupidity (IMHO)

or they just like to see their name and thread at the top of the forum

I will no longer reply to any posts on this matter

or even read this thread again

[Warren Farkovski]

this thred is joke yes?

is same thouw pehaps as when Farkov was in Moldova this was holding me bak from sleaping with the Jennifer Hawkins. Now I am in this counntry Australia look out Jennifer nothing will hold us bak.

All of you posts to date are a joke IMO.

Why don't you stop with the fake why you type, I for one don't see any humour in it at all

Are you suggesting that he should farkov?

Yeah, I've just checked his profile and not one of his 9 posts have any value and his attempt to be humorous is grating.

Go on then, farkov

fair enough - I honestly thought the thread was a joke. Anyway we're happy to have Banger at CFC.

Perhaps the biggest joke thread tho is "Is Reiwoldt a marshmallow?".

Too funny.

Farkov over and outski

Yehshamesh

Hmmm. U got Harvey and Ackland... We got Goddard. Yep... you win.

".

we'll call it 0-0 at 1/2 time on that score shall we.

I think you'll find many Carlton supporters come on here because you're hilarious. Threads having a crack at Harvey and Riewoldt just reinforces this. Two absolute champions of your club and the game. We love our past champs, even the ones who go to be an assistant coach with your lot. We revere them.

Ah well. Good luck this year.

[St Fidelius]

we'll call it 0-0 at 1/2 time on that score shall we.

I think you'll find many Carlton supporters come on here because you're hilarious. Threads having a crack at Harvey and Riewoldt just reinforces this. Two absolute champions of your club and the game. We love our past champs, even the ones who go to be an assistant coach with your lot. We revere them.

Ah well. Good luck this year.

Do you lot still love Hamill

F*** off moron