Good call Saints board!

[plumtire]

I had an open mind about Cousins coming to the Saints. I was prepared to let the club decide. At the back of my mind I had the thought that we need to look to youth rather than punt on someone like Ben Cousins, but ultimately thought it best to have faith in the club to make the right call. I think its a mature and wise decision to decline on recruiting Ben. The absence of other "interested AFL parties" says something about the guys prospects for success. M. Gardiner has hardly set the Yarra alight has he? I cant see how us becoming a "de-facto rehab centre" is going to win us a flag!

[Con Gorozidis]

I had an open mind about Cousins coming to the Saints. I was prepared to let the club decide. At the back of my mind I had the thought that we need to look to youth rather than punt on someone like Ben Cousins, but ultimately thought it best to have faith in the club to make the right call. I think its a mature and wise decision to decline on recruiting Ben. The absence of other "interested AFL parties" says something about the guys prospects for success. M. Gardiner has hardly set the Yarra alight has he? I cant see how us becoming a "de-facto rehab centre" is going to win us a flag!

well i agree with a youth policy. but at least BC can play a bit. Unlike most of our other rehabilitated muppets. and our youth arent too flash either.

[skeptic]

the bottom line is that if we drafted BC and didn't win a premiership in 3 years...

in 3 years time it wouldn't have payed off. ANd it would have cost some1 like a Eddy, Clarke, Armitage a spot in the team and a kid his place on the list.

How confident are you that we would have won a premiership in the next 3 years?

[Richter]

the bottom line is that if we drafted BC and didn't win a premiership in 3 years...

in 3 years time it wouldn't have payed off. ANd it would have cost some1 like a Eddy, Clarke, Armitage a spot in the team and a kid his place on the list.

How confident are you that we would have won a premiership in the next 3 years?

No skeptic the bottom line is this......

Do you think that we would have more chance of winning a premiership in the next 3 years with BC on the list or with Brad Howard?

It's a no-brainer really, and that is why I am so perplexed.

[JeffDunne]

I'm not convinced the AFL even want Ben Cousins to play.

It is interesting that many who are pissed at the board now, were also making this observation when the AFL laid out their conditions to Ben.

When the AFL handed down their decision and Ricky Nixon threw doubt into Ben wanting to play, the hissy fits we saw here were very much directed at the AFL.

Many of those same people are now having a hissy fit at the board.

I guess that's how some people handle disappointment.

[undecided]

the bottom line is that if we drafted BC and didn't win a premiership in 3 years...

in 3 years time it wouldn't have payed off. ANd it would have cost some1 like a Eddy, Clarke, Armitage a spot in the team and a kid his place on the list.

How confident are you that we would have won a premiership in the next 3 years?

it would of been worth the risk. i would of felt a lot better if we tried rather then just continuing as we are going to

[skeptic]

No skeptic the bottom line is this......

Do you think that we would have more chance of winning a premiership in the next 3 years with BC on the list or with Brad Howard?

It's a no-brainer really, and that is why I am so perplexed.

I see where u're coming from but more chance doesn't = premiership

It's no good finishing in the 8 for another few years, not winning the flag and then dropping out of the 8 coz we haven't been developing players.

That sets us back 5 years.

IMO the bottom line is are we developed enough to be a genuine contender next year with cousins???
We were along way of the pace againt the 2 best teams this year.

[Con Gorozidis]

the bottom line is that if we drafted BC and didn't win a premiership in 3 years...

in 3 years time it wouldn't have payed off. ANd it would have cost some1 like a Eddy, Clarke, Armitage a spot in the team and a kid his place on the list.

How confident are you that we would have won a premiership in the next 3 years?

no it would have cost someone like a c gardner, fizz, rixy, brooks, ferguson etc etc etc a spot on the list.

people are suddenly precious about list spots yet noone seemed to blink when we had total MUPPETS cloggin the list for 4 or 5 years at a time.

F*** me - you dont dump a kid to put cuz on the list but id happily live without Leigh Fisher or someone in the Casey Magoos....

thanks to this decision i have to sit through another year of watching half-baked, no skill players running around in saints jumpers - all in the name of do-gooding.

"not many choir boys win premierships" Allen Jeans

[skeptic]

Leigh Fisher isn't getting paid what BC would

[skeptic]

[no it would have cost someone like a c gardner, fizz, rixy, brooks, ferguson etc etc etc a spot on the list.

The other thing is that all of those players are already gone.

If St.Kilda didn't win a premiership with BC in 3yrs, he's gone. L. Fisher may well still be there.

This is completely disregarding whatever other more secretive reasons they didn't want to get him

[Richter]

I see where u're coming from but more chance doesn't = premiership

No offence but a statement of the obvious. Say we need to improve by 25% to win a flag - and recruiting BC gives us 10%, should we recruit BC? Answer = unequivocable yes.

It's no good finishing in the 8 for another few years, not winning the flag and then dropping out of the 8 coz we haven't been developing players.

That sets us back 5 years.

That's an argument against recruiting King, Gardner, G-train, keeping Harvey on for the last 3 years, keeping Max on now..... Yet we refuse to take on a recent Brownlow medallist with potentially 4 years left in him? More to it than that. Are you really telling me that keeping Brad Howard, Eljay Connors, Leigh Fisher, etc. on the list infront of Ben Cousins will set us back 5 years... pull the other one.

IMO the bottom line is are we developed enough to be a genuine contender next year with cousins???

YES. We were the 4th best team last year. The year before the Hawks won the premiership they finished 7th, the Cats, 9th........and have finished in the top 4 in 3 out of the last 5 years

We were along way of the pace againt the 2 best teams this year.

Yes in the finals, but we beat the Hawks by 30-odd points in the H&A fixture.

Also you need to take a longer term view. After the current crop of players from Riewoldt down to Goddard (in age) are through - i.e. in about 4 years then IMO we are shot for a decade. So we must do what we can NOW to improve the team for a shot in this generation.

[skeptic]

You do make a compelling argument

However, you've got to compare apples with apples.

King was a short term fix/insurance policy as we were unsure of MG and are waiting for Kosi and McEvoy to develop

Gehrig and Max have been star players that we're not ready to replace.

Harvey is a different category all togther... he's less risk than BC and has been performing solidly for a while now.

Eljay, Howard and L. Fisher did NOT cost BC his spot in the side. They're different players to Ben.

IMO the board felt that developing Goddard, X, Armitage, Eddie... guys that can/may play for another 5-8 years at least was a safer shot than some1 whose attributes are all in the past
It's not a done thing that had we recruited him, he would have been a star for us.

It's about weighing up the risks

[chook23]

You do make a compelling argument

However, you've got to compare apples with apples.

King was a short term fix/insurance policy as we were unsure of MG and are waiting for Kosi and McEvoy to develop

Gehrig and Max have been star players that we're not ready to replace.

Harvey is a different category all togther... he's less risk than BC and has been performing solidly for a while now.

Eljay, Howard and L. Fisher did NOT cost BC his spot in the side. They're different players to Ben.

IMO the board felt that developing Goddard, X, Armitage, Eddie... guys that can/may play for another 5-8 years at least was a safer shot than some1 whose attributes are all in the past
It's not a done thing that had we recruited him, he would have been a star for us.

It's about weighing up the risks

IMO we concentrated too much on the negative risks and not on the postives

typical of humans this day an age

[Richter]

You do make a compelling argument

..........................

It's about weighing up the risks

Cheers. I find the footy arguments are miles in favour of picking up BC, however......

The one intangible in all this is the risk of BC actually being a rotten apple. My suspicion is that risk is the reason we have not taken him on. The fact that he still hangs out with members of the criminal underworld does give me pause for thought and can for mine be the only good reason why we have not picked him up, and for why we are so reluctant as to say why we are not going to pick him up.

[plumtire]

I for the life of me cannot understand why all the hysteria over the board deciding not to punt on a decidedly dodgy prospect (not only in lifestyle issues but also chronically short of match fitness) If we were fighting-off ten other clubs for the guy's services then I could go some way to understanding the furore surrounding this issue. Life will go on people whether we have this guy or not! I think history will show this board to have got this one just about spot-on!

[skeptic]

I suspect you're right and that they're about the impact his presence will have in thrusting us into the limelight (for the wrong reasons) and the impact this may have on sponsorship

[Con Gorozidis]

Eljay, Howard and L. Fisher did NOT cost BC his spot in the side. They're different players to Ben.

a lot different type of players. ben is the type of player that actually gets a kick from time to time! I agree it is all about weighing risks.

my logic is very simple and as follows:

% chance person A will be a good player - 40%
% chance person B will be a good player - 5%

I would select person A.

IMHO BC is person A and Leigh Fisher or some kid we pick at 96 in the draft would be person B.

[WayneJudson42]

From a purely football perspective, the case for getting BC was compelling... no doubt.

So surely, there must be other non-footy issues involved. Surely.

Just it's far fetched to say that BC would help deliver flag... too many variables involved such as other teams, injusries etc....

It's just as far fetched to write off our young players simply because they haven't come on as quickly as we'd like.

Patince people... patience.

[jays]

i really think saints are missing out ben could off been great at our club for the next few years he has a good 3 years left, dont think was a good call by saints

[StSteven]

One simple question....Given WCE know most about BC and his associates, we have to ask why they do not want him back at any cost? I guess they don't want a premiership which so many think is guaranteed with BC.

Far too many other things come with Ben which will put the club, the players, the team and our image at risk not to mention the high chance of breaking down with hamstring problems.

Why did Ben not take the opportunity to play in the VFL last year?

[Enrico_Misso]

One simple question....Given WCE know most about BC and his associates, we have to ask why they do not want him back at any cost? I guess they don't want a premiership which so many think is guaranteed with BC.

Far too many other things come with Ben which will put the club, the players, the team and our image at risk not to mention the high chance of breaking down with hamstring problems.

Why did Ben not take the opportunity to play in the VFL last year?

Exactly !

[Con Gorozidis]

One simple question....Given WCE know most about BC and his associates, we have to ask why they do not want him back at any cost? I guess they don't want a premiership which so many think is guaranteed with BC.

Far too many other things come with Ben which will put the club, the players, the team and our image at risk not to mention the high chance of breaking down with hamstring problems.

Why did Ben not take the opportunity to play in the VFL last year?

WCE are in a different position to saints. They know they are 5 years off another flag at least. Total re-building phase. So no point having BC there at all. refresh my memory - was the vfl offer to play or just to train?

obvisouly lots of unanswered questions - too many for the saints. but i guess its not over until after the National Draft. I still reckon someone will take him - Lions, Dockers, Power, Swans, Roos, Dogs could all sneak in. Who knows.

[Richter]

I think history will show this board to have got this one just about spot-on!

FOr that to be true it'll mean that either...

1/ St Kilda win a premiership (without BC) in the next 3 years - Hell I hope so, but I give it a 4:1 against

2/ Benny relapses: I give this a 3:1 outside chance

OVERALL I estimate around a 30-40% chance that you are right

[St Fidelius]

I think history will show this board to have got this one just about spot-on!

FOr that to be true it'll mean that either...

1/ St Kilda win a premiership (without BC) in the next 3 years - Hell I hope so, but I give it a 4:1 against

2/ Benny relapses: I give this a 3:1 outside chance

OVERALL I estimate around a 30-40% chance that you are right

Why is that??

BC was informed weeks ago about the drug hair test that he would be facing prior to the deadline of the ND...

He fronts up with no body hair and an extremely short hair cut...

It does take a few months for the hair sample not to leave any residue and he must have known about it IMO...

Gee, you don't have to be Einstein to work out the reason why...

To put it bluntly, Ben Cousins did himself NO FAVOURS by not being able to be drug tested using a hair sample...

IMO he basically shot himself in the foot...

[Dan Warna]

Im not concerned.

the difference between us and the top teams is discipline, not lack of talent.

we play champagne football for 2 quarters, sometimes 1 to win games.

Geebung and Hawks play 3 quarters or 4.

the problems won't be solved with cousins, who hasn't effectively played in 2 years, is 30, and was possibly under the influence of drugs when he was playing.

interestingly a fair wack of the of the US track team from the 2000 olympics have lost their gold medals and have come out and said yeah they were on drugs at the time.

its not hard to mask abusers, its often the circumstantial evidence that finds these cheaters out.

I have no doubt the right decision was made by the club.