Level 2 have to be Social members?????

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

I have received a PM from FortiusQuoFidelius about his conversation with St Kida, I have requested for him to post it on here.

AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE HOW THE CLUB HAS HANDLED THIS!

TO PUT IT BLUNTLY, THEY JUST DON'T CARE IF THEY LOSE A FEW MEMBERS.

YEP, SO MUCH FOR THE CLUB BEING LOYAL TO THE FANS.

"STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY" MY AR$E

Here is a copy of my PM to St Fid... In fairness to the guy who took my call I have omitted his name.

I just had a call from (name omitted) at St Kilda who was responding to my phone call from this morning. He also said that Archie had flicked him my email to respond to.

So firstly, Archie didnt have the guts to respond in person...

Secondly (name omitted) stated that the decision was made to bring us in line with other clubs (he used Essendon as an example) with respect to what they charge and how many members they have. He then immediately contradicted himself by saying that the club did not have the time to research what other clubs were charging for similar membership packages before releasing theirs.

The feeling I got was that the club didnt seem too perturbed at losing members.

I reiterated to them that I wasnt renewing my membership unless a reversal of their stupid policy was imminent and indeed was considering a Melbourne Storm (or, god forbid, North Melbourne) membership!

Again it was water off a duck's back. These guys dont give a rats tossbag!

I'm over it!

[St Fidelius]

As a form of protest, I am now considering not renewing my membership (3 memberships) and 3 reserved seats...

So that will be over $830 the Club will miss out

I may just pay at the gate for the matches we attend

[The Fireman]

level one is arguably better seating anyway.

I would argue that it isn't.

you cant get closer than level one.

L2 is by far the best viewing level.
No brainer.

perhaps the best viewing level sure, although it depends what you want from the experience.

I want to experience the best view.

[The Fireman]

This is a reply I received from the club.


Good Afternoon *******,

Thank you for taking the time to write into the club regarding your 2009
Membership Package. I can clearly tell from you letter that you are a
passionate and committed member and supporter of the St Kilda Football
Club. Committed members are vitally important to the football club as
they are the life blood of the club. Due to this I felt it important
to write back to you regarding your 2009 St Kilda Membership and to
explain the club's position.

In regards to price increases in previous years I am unable to go into
detail about the reasons as I was not involved with the club during that
period. However, I can assure you that the decision by the club to
restructure the Gold Level 2 seating for 2009 has not been taken lightly
and we had to weigh up many factors. The first and most important is
the demand for Level 2 seats, over the last 5 years we have sold out
Level 2 and over the last two years we have had a waiting list of 500
people. I'm sure you will agree that there is no better seat in Etihad
Stadium than Level 2 which reflected in the pricing of other tenant club
packages as well as Medallion Club and Access One packages run by the
stadium.

Currently 60% of Level 2 seat holders are Social Club Members. The club
has also added member benefits in 2009. We have available a Level 2
Social Club. Hosted by Nathan Burke the Level 2 Social Club will provide
members with:
* Player and coaches interviews pre game and at half time
* Access to purchase dinning at one or all of our matches
* Premium Heavy beers at the Social Club bar
* Access to "behind the glass" seating in a quiet family environment.

Added to the Level 2 Social Club will be the additional Social Club
benefits from 2008 - Guaranteed Grand Final ticket (cap increased from
8,500 to 11,500 in 2009) and access to the Victory Room which hosts the
official St Kilda after match function with player interviews raffles
and auction items.

We believe these added benefits make the Level 2 seat offer an excellent
package for members. We do realise that this package may not appeal to
all 2008 Level 2 members. We still want to retain all Level 2 Seat
members as 2009 members and can offer our services to find the best
possible seat in 1 of the 3 other Reserve Seat categories we have to
offer (2 on Level 1 and 1 on Level 3).

I am more than happy to find an alternative package should you wish not
renew your Level 2 seat. Should you have any further questions or wish
to discuss this further please do not hesitate to contact me personally

Jonathan Wright
Member Relations Co-Ordinator
St Kilda Football Club

[Mr Magic]

level one is arguably better seating anyway.

I would argue that it isn't.

you cant get closer than level one.

L2 is by far the best viewing level.
No brainer.

perhaps the best viewing level sure, although it depends what you want from the experience.

I want to experience the best view.

We moved from L1 to L2 about 3 years ago and there is no comparison with teh view. Yes L1 is close to the action if you are in teh first 10 rows or so, but there is difficulty in seeing the action on the other side of the ground.

On L2 you are still much closer to the action (compared to the MCG) and you can see everything as long as the roof is not open and the sun is not shining!

[saint66au]

I have received a PM from FortiusQuoFidelius about his conversation with St Kida, I have requested for him to post it on here.

AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE HOW THE CLUB HAS HANDLED THIS!

TO PUT IT BLUNTLY, THEY JUST DON'T CARE IF THEY LOSE A FEW MEMBERS.

YEP, SO MUCH FOR THE CLUB BEING LOYAL TO THE FANS.

"STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY" MY AR$E

Here is a copy of my PM to St Fid... In fairness to the guy who took my call I have omitted his name.

I just had a call from (name omitted) at St Kilda who was responding to my phone call from this morning. He also said that Archie had flicked him my email to respond to.

So firstly, Archie didnt have the guts to respond in person...

Secondly (name omitted) stated that the decision was made to bring us in line with other clubs (he used Essendon as an example) with respect to what they charge and how many members they have. He then immediately contradicted himself by saying that the club did not have the time to research what other clubs were charging for similar membership packages before releasing theirs.

The feeling I got was that the club didnt seem too perturbed at losing members.

I reiterated to them that I wasnt renewing my membership unless a reversal of their stupid policy was imminent and indeed was considering a Melbourne Storm (or, god forbid, North Melbourne) membership!

Again it was water off a duck's back. These guys dont give a rats tossbag!

I'm over it!

Interesting read.

Firstly the only thing I will say in support of the Club is that Archie is within his rights to handball Membership enquiries to the Membership Dept. I would however hope that it was a senior fulltime member of that Dept and not just a phone-answering volunteer

Now..all this talk of "bringing us into line with the other Clubs like Essendon" is interesting. He's used Essendon as an example so I will too..

1. Essendon plays blockbuster home games at the G, we dont

2. Essendon have an absolute sweetheart deal at TD, we dont.

So..we are trying to match Essendon's revenue, income, Membership numbers etc but with them getting (at least) those 2 massive head starts.

One of the things the Club appear to be trying to do is increase our SC-to-Member ratio. I'm guessing Essendon/Collingwoods is much higher than ours. But theres two differing ways to get people to try something new if they have to pay for it..you can either entice them or force them. Instead of forcing the Level 2 seatholders to buy SC, why not entice them..at least at first.

This move is akin to the opening of Docklands in 2000, when every seat in the joint had to be reserved and the ground managers made statements like "Melbournians are going to have to change the way they plan their day at the football" Well even Collo saw the disaster that turned out to be and he changed it quicksmart when he took over

The Club CANNOT afford to appear arrogant about this. They sounded no-one (except the beancounters) out about it so have to expect member backlash. They are breaking up long-standing football friendships and driving a wedge between the have and have-nots. Sure, between existing SC , new SC and waiting list seat members, their might be enough people to fill the seats (and I do say might) but for Gods sake, the fans they have disenfranchised by forcing them out...well..are they happy to pay that price..in a year when Strength Through Loyalty will be emblazoned everywhere???

If the posters on here are a fair representation of the mood of the average fan, this is the biggest unified backlash against the Club O can remember in a long time. Even GT had more support when he left lol

PS..Man U fans? Wasnt one of the first things the Glazer Bro's did when they bought them massively increase reserved seating charges and/or boot fans out to make way for corporates?

The supporter backlash was so huge there that they (thousands and thousands of them) went and created their own team, FCUM, 10 leagues below EPL and refused to ever watch MU again

[Mr Magic]

Not wishing to defend Archie Fraser, but hasn't he been overseas until today? I'm sure I read on here that he was away playing golf (maybe Ireland?).

If so, it would be difficult for him to telephone a member and 'handle' his enquiry. He certainly would be able to receive his emails and pass them off to others for 'handling' so maybe his actions have been misconstrued?

[St Fidelius]

Just have a look at Essendon's level 2 reserved seating area....

From memory last year Essendon had a couple of hundred more members than us ..



This is the Saints reserved seating area...



And yet the Club is telling us it is following what Essendon is doing with Level 2...

Essendon has a far bigger area than the Saints and cannot really follow them IMO

[saintbrat]

Not wishing to defend Archie Fraser, but hasn't he been overseas until today? I'm sure I read on here that he was away playing golf (maybe Ireland?).

If so, it would be difficult for him to telephone a member and 'handle' his enquiry. He certainly would be able to receive his emails and pass them off to others for 'handling' so maybe his actions have been misconstrued?

e-mails to archief go to his blackberry or equivalent
I have received replies on weekends etc before.

[saint66au]

Intersting point Fid...the one thing I will point out is that when Essendon signed their sweetheart deal in 2000, AFAIK all their members had to buy a reserved seat. THis is why that chart shows reserved seating scattered over all levels, and means that all Ess games there have to be all-ticketed. HOWEVER I have it on very good authority that the seats on L3 that Essendon sell are 100% clear profit to them ie TD dont charge them for it!!! I found this out when I queried why our own L3 reserved seats were nearly double the price of Essendons in 2007 when St Kilda first offered them. To their credit they dropped the price considerably in 2008 and wham!...50 MW folk suddenly buy seats..funny that!!

Essendon are far more fickle than Pies fans even. When they arent playinig well masses of their reserved seat holders dont turn up..but the cash is alrady in the bank

I

[steve66]

G'day all, i've been reading sainsational for a while now and i've never felt the need to comment until now.
Obviously this issue is one that has caused some people some real heart felt grief. I have to confess upfront, i am a level 1 reserved seat, social club member of the club for over 20 years. At times over those 20 years i've wondered where the club was heading and shook my head in disbelief at some of the decisions that have been made. I understand this decision will mean those members will have to pay $120 more a year. i understand this may be a burden on some. i understand some people will feel it's just a case of the club making a grab for cash. But i have to say, i don't think this is one of them. Now before you dismiss me as self interested or heartless or a club stooge, let me give you my reasons.
1. the club is a not for profit organisation. the increase (for whatever reason it has been done) directly goes to the running of and ultimate success of the saints - it's not used for anything other than making the club stronger financially.
2. the level 2 seats are the best in the house - there's only a limited number of them - so they should me more expensive than elsewhere - it's one of the only ways ALL CLUBS make their money!
3. you can pay the SC membership on the easy pay plan i've got for me and my son and the club doesn't charge you any interest or charges, it's about $11 extra a month - that's 3 coffee's.
like i said before, i can understand people being upset about change, but the way i see it, they're not changing this because they want to lose members, they are changing it because it was inevitable that it had to change.
now what i'm saying might not be attractive to some of you, but i reckon if you think about it, you may just see a grain of truth in it.
i had cause to call the membership department last year with an issue and i thought they did everything they could for me - i reckon, contrary to what has been said here, they absolutely care about members.
so that's my 2 cents worth. i hope all of you who are saying you won't renew again will hear what i say and think about it, the saints need passionate members like you and always will
steve66

[iwantmeseats]

I dont care if people have to drop their reseved seats...I mean I DO feel for them no doubt. However, I start to care if they just drop membership completely and stop attending games.

If you feel the need and cant fork out the extra, just consider a normal membership and still attend. A drop in numbers is the last thing we need.

[saint66au]

Welcome steve66...pull up a chair and stay a while

You make some interesting points and I for one will totally concur on the friendliness and helpfulness of our Membership Dept. I dealt with (sadly not a the Club any more) Kylie Simmons the Co-ordinator extensively in the off-season last year and if theres a friendlier stress-free Membership person in AFL..well..I dont think there is. Ben Hall is also great

Interestingly enough the corresponding thread over on the SaintsCentral MB is far more positive on the change. Many people are applauding the attempt to raise our revenue stream and pretty much saying that we've had it too good for too long. Two sides to everything I guess

The fallout wil be interesting. At least there will be something else apart from Benny on the agends of tomorrow nights board meeting lol

[St Fidelius]

Intersting point Fid...the one thing I will point out is that when Essendon signed their sweetheart deal in 2000, AFAIK all their members had to buy a reserved seat. THis is why that chart shows reserved seating scattered over all levels, and means that all Ess games there have to be all-ticketed. HOWEVER I have it on very good authority that the seats on L3 that Essendon sell are 100% clear profit to them ie TD dont charge them for it!!! I found this out when I queried why our own L3 reserved seats were nearly double the price of Essendons in 2007 when St Kilda first offered them. To their credit they dropped the price considerably in 2008 and wham!...50 MW folk suddenly buy seats..funny that!!

Essendon are far more fickle than Pies fans even. When they arent playinig well masses of their reserved seat holders dont turn up..but the cash is alrady in the bank

Mate, my point is that the Club is using Essendon for an example in explaining their rationale behind the new Level 2 reserved seats...

This point alone is where the Club is WRONG....

How can they use Essendon for an example when they have more seating allocation???

edit: I have also included St Kilda's seating allocation in that other post.

[steve66]

saints66 thanks for the welcome. i've regularly read sainsational for a couple of years and have always been impressed with the way the forum is run and how saints people respond to each other - i use a mac so saints central doesn't always work that well. now i've 'broken the seal' i hope to get more involved
GO SAINTS
steve66

[aussierules0k]

[St Fidelius]

steve66, there's lots to like about your post. Welcome aboard the good ship SS.

The heart of the problem is not the money. If we'd known by say round 16 last year, it'd have given us time to work out who around us will renew - or how we could all move downstairs but still sit together. The problem is that we are only in contact with a few of the ppl we sit with, so we don't know if/when we turn up to the first home game, they'll be there or not.

Long relationships that were dependant on a footy game have been cut with no way of further contact. We'll never get to say goodbye. As you say 3 coffees aint much. However, if half the people said they couldn't afford it, we'd all move.

To put it context: I worked out the time spent with these people is much more than I spend with some of my family and close friends.

What the club must ask itself is... would we rather a suit drinking wine on the front row or a mad Sainter wearing a jumper and scarf and waving a large slab flag at every game? What would inspire the players more?

I really feel for you and the others AOK.....

Absolutely p1ss poor communication by the Club for those involved IMO..

A total lack of regard for those members that have sat together for YEARS

For the Club so say that they are following the Essendon model on level 2 and yet have far less seating allocation does not make any sense to me.

[steve66]

g'day aussierules ok, i must admit, i have similar relationships with the people we sit with on level 1, i've seen their kids grow up before my eyes as my son has grown up too. i understand completely. i wonder if the club would be able to do anything about that... i can't think of how or what at the moment, but maybe there is some way the club could put all you people who sit together, together to discuss it by email or something. sorry mate, i'm probably not helping. i understand your frustration
steve66

[chook23]

If all members had have been advised well before end of season there would have been time for those sitting all together to try and work things out.

Members have found out well after season ended.......

Very por planning and communication.

Just spring it on people with the new packages.........

What a pleasant surprise for loyal sainters.

[aussierules0k]

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

We do sit on other levels for the away games. On 2 occasions in the last 2 years, I found myself in a compromising postition.

1) 3rd lvl, 15 min 1st Q. Drunk filth yobbo's accidently spill 1/2 beer right down my mums back... on the inside. OK... mums cool, no biggie, I turned and mentioned they be more careful... nothing agro. However, during the last Q mum needed to visit the loo. Filth were up... the yobo's shouted at her... "yeah ya f'n old bag, if ya can't take it stay home" or words to that effect.
I was in a turmoil for weeks. They were right behind me, I could easily have turned round and smashed the 3 in the face before they'd known what hit em. I wish I had I truely do. 1) it's not in me. 2) It would only embarris mum and my son.

2) Filth final this year. 5 min's in.. dodgy fee kick to filth in front of us... all of a sudden some idiot Sainter on speed (I can tell) went banana's literally. He screamed out the c and f words and started kicking his seat like a madman. Yelling we're gonna kill you at the ump... we know where you live - like he really meant it - not just trying to put the ump off - this guy was a nutter. WELL... no-one said anything - we were all freaked out. After a couple of minutes, I turned with an evil stare and told him that that wont be tollerated and it wont happen again. I'm a pretty good bluffer (ex frontman ). He backed right off. At half time, while he and his father and clan were out getting more beer, the people around all congratulated and thanked me. When I told them I was bluffing, don't fight and s*** scared he'd punch me in the head, they all laughed. Point is, I shouldn't have to put up with these idiots, and I NEVER do at home games.

I have had similar experiences whilst sitting in the nosebleed section at TD and never again want to expose my teenage daughters to that sort of unruly and unacceptable behaviour. Thats why I wont be renewing my membership unless the powers to be reverse their decision.

At least in the loungeroom its only me shouting at the umpitres!

[aussierules0k]

[Saints43]

The Club CANNOT afford to appear arrogant about this. They sounded no-one (except the beancounters) out about it so have to expect member backlash.

I received a survey from the club after the season regarding various types of membership packages. I would assume that the changes to Level 2 seating would in some part be based on the responses from members.

Perhaps providing Social Club facilities on Level 2 is what the majority of the members in that area requested?

As a L2 Social Club member I am pleased that the club is now providing match day facilities. But can also understand the annoyance of the goal posts moving after people have settled into their reserved seat communities.

[saintspremiers]

Our club would be well advised in the future to contact the Melbourne Cricket Club and learn how they deal with changes to membership conditions.

I've been a full MCC member for 12 years now, and have seen plenty of structural changes to the membership, including significant fee hikes/ground redevelopments.

Like this move by St. Kilda, quite a few changes proposed by the MCC have had passionate backlash, but at least the MCC makes big changes over TIME and listens (or gives the IMRESSION it listens!) to those against the change.

Any big price rise will upset a lot of people, you don't need to be Einstein to know that one.....I can see where the club is coming from, and in the long run might be the right move, but one taken on the wrong road.

[saint66au]

Looks like its not just us...

I'll post the article in the Opposition Forum..but looks like Collingwood are forcing all their Cheer Squad members to buy 17 game RESERVED SEAT packages to join the Cheer Squad..at a cost of close to $700!!!

AFAIK unless something has changed, the MCG/TD make those 250/300 seats available to each Clubs CS at no cost (or paid for by the AFL) ..unlike every other reserved seat in the ground. This means COllingwood are extorting about $400 out of each CS member for a seat that the Club gets for nothing!!!

We all love to take a crack at em, but thats a shocking thing to do to a CS

Looks like its still just $20 on top of your membership to join ours