How close are we?

[Teflon]

In all the talk of drafting Cousins the question comes down to - How close are we?

We lost to Cats/Hawks by 10 goal smashings......yes we beat Hawks at the Dome in season....and captitulated when it mattered. We got lucky in some respects in 4th (we played well at seasons end make no mistake but others also fell over for us). We also lost convingly to the Dogs twice.

Carltons, Richmonds etc are improving so can we realistically bridge this gap to Cats/Hawks/Dogs in a season and stay ahead of the up and comers? or are we in "Freo paradise" thinking we are oh so close when the reality is we are sliding....????

what do you think?

[Saintersss]

I believe one of the reasons we were so behind Geelong and Hawthorn was our bottom 8 players or so. We could match our top players against Cats/Hawks, but their bottom players actually deserved to be in there team. Ours were more replacements.

Therefore I think we are a chance if:

1) We stay relatively injury free.
2) Some of our younger guys take the next step (Eddy, Armitage, Allen, Jones etc.)
3) Ball, Maguire and Baker come back and play solid football.
4) Cousins (if we get him) and Ray play some good footy. (espcially cousins, ray more that he makes the 22 and stays there)


These all improve our 'depth' and so really bridge the gap between us and the top teams.

[bigcarl]

what do you think?

we are a chance.

we have the cattle, or close to it, imo, but need to temper the defensive mindset and gameplan to be a threat.

we need a 70-plus leading/marking full forward to complement riewoldt and to rethink the "numbers behind the ball" thing, which we take to ridiculous extremes at times.

to beat the hawks and cats you have to be able to outscore them and i can't see that happening with our current set up and lack of risk-taking.

[Pilgram]

we have overtaken WBD in my opinion and are very close to geelong and hawthorn.

[plugger66]

we have overtaken WBD in my opinion and are very close to geelong and hawthorn.

Why have we overtaken WB. Has our break been better than theirs?

[Teflon]

we have overtaken WBD in my opinion and are very close to geelong and hawthorn.

I dont think we have overtaken the Dogs on what I saw last year.

Saying we need to improve from the bottom 6-8 players is a huge amount of improvement....but at least guys like Geary, Eddy, Allen etc will be more understanding of whats required at the level.

I hope Armitage puts in a good year...IMHO he needs to become a regular if wer are going to improve.

[matrix]

flag

[Saints Premiers 2008]

see we all know that we are a much better side than the dogs, they are rubbish

yet they beat us twice so my post doesnt make sense...

[Saint_in_SA]

The best sign of improvement has been the smart list management in delisting many players that are not going to win us our next premiership - I speak of Fiora, Rix, Birss, Howard etc etc...

Gehrig was shot to bits, Harves obviously retired (and in great fettle for his vintage)

We forced the Dogs into using their father and son pick early.

I think we have made a few strides in these areas..... obviously though, we finished 4th which means that we are 13th best when it comes to draft picks compared to the other teams,,,,,,, this does suck badly when considering that this is the last 'uncompromised' draft (when aren't they compromised in some way?)

We will need to be smarter now than ever before........

[WayneJudson42]

we have overtaken WBD in my opinion and are very close to geelong and hawthorn.

I dont think we have overtaken the Dogs on what I saw last year.

Saying we need to improve from the bottom 6-8 players is a huge amount of improvement....but at least guys like Geary, Eddy, Allen etc will be more understanding of whats required at the level.

I hope Armitage puts in a good year...IMHO he needs to become a regular if wer are going to improve.

I think we are close.

I think that Gtrain not working out unsettled our fwd structure, so this needs to be sorted out.

BC would make a massive improvement to our mids as would Ray, and we need Goose and Bakes back in form.

Dempster is a big loss IMO.

The question is where the rest of the improvement will come from... Raph, X, Gwilt?

One thing's for sure, we need some extra aggression.

[n1ck]

I think Luke Ball might step up a gear in 2009 too. He seems to be over his OP issues and although they will be ongoing, it appears that him and the club have worked out how to get around it.

I dont think we're too far away, but if we get Cuz, I think we may still be a year away. Hopefully Armo, Eddy, Jones and Geary can step up, and Farren Ray can fit into our 22. Improvement from 95% (not sure we can expect too much improvement from the likes of Max, Roo and King) of our list will hold us in good stead.

[jays]

ben is just what we need we free up dal as we no he cant shake a tag who nos it might be the thing we are lacking

[Teflon]

ben is just what we need we free up dal as we no he cant shake a tag who nos it might be the thing we are lacking

u keep saying Bens a done deal Jays....know anything that may be of interest.....

[tweedaletomanning]

Anyone who saw the two finals against the Grand Finalists (with both eyes open) know that we are pretty far off the pace.

If the HARVEY factor counted for anyrthing, then we actually played "above" ourselves.

Knowing that the "H" factor does not exist next year, I actually expect us to slide a little next year (as much as it hurts to say it).

UNLESS....we can pick up Ben.(and he fairytale's it)..then I would say our prospects look much better...

But as most have said on the forum before, we've blown it with (relatively)VERY POOR recruiting over the past 5 years.

So..In Reality...we are NOT close...

But "TO DREAM THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM" is all we can do......


PROVE ME WRONG, SAINTS, PROVE ME WRONG!!!

[saintsRrising]

I think Luke Ball might step up a gear in 2009 too. .

Funny you should say that as I have been thinking that a bit over the last few days too.

We are short of elite mids EVEN if we gain Cousins.

In 2009 Ball is the only player apart fron BJ that is a chance of doing this.

We need BJ to continue to improve as well, but he is unlikely to play the pure midfield role.

The last few years Ball has only been a shadow of what he can be.

Whether his body will allow him to be that player we will just have to wait and see.

If he can, then a midfield built around Hayes, Dall, Ball and Cousins will see as with effectively TWO new elite mids.

[St. Luke]

I think we'll be as close to the flag next season as we've been in the last 10 yrs. Our boys know they have to lift that extra notch to compete with the likes of the Hawks, Cats & Dogs. No doubt we'll make the finals again next season, but this time we're not going to be stopping at a Prelim!

[bigcarl]

If he can, then a midfield built around Hayes, Dall, Ball and Cousins will see as with effectively TWO new elite mids.

i'd throw raph clarke and gram into the mids mix as well.

grammy already has played some nice football for us in that role and it wouldn't surprise me to see raph really turn it on if given a go there either.

thing is, we can release them, and bj, from backline duties if guys like baker, goose, ray and x-man are able to slot in there.

i'd be strongly considering bj for ff.

it's just vital that we have another leading/marking target there to take some heat off riewoldt.

[Devilhead]

We got lucky in some respects in 4th (we played well at seasons end make no mistake but others also fell over for us).

Were other teams lucky because we fell over at the start????????

Sorry mate but that is such a cop out line!!!!

At the start of the year each team is scheduled to play 22 games and at the end of those 22 games if one team has more points than another then they finish higher

The 1st game of the year is just as important as the 13th game of the year or the 22nd game of the year

We were not lucky - we deserved our 4th place finish just as everyone other team deserved to finish where they did - full stop!!!!!

[ace]

You don't have to be the best team to win a premiership.
But you do have to win that game played on the last Saturday in September.
Geelong was the best team last year but Hawthorn beat them when it really counted.

It is probable that Hawthorn and Geelong will both make it to the preliminary finals again and at least one will be in the grand final.
St Kilda needs to be that other team.
It therefore needs a game that will beat Geelong and Hawthorn.

St Kilda did not make it to the grand final this year because it did not have the game to beat Hawthorn when it mattered.
Also they probably did not have the game to beat Geelong even if they had made to the grand final.

Ross Lyon only needs to come up with game plan strategies that use the cattle available to beat these two clubs when it really counts.

[ThePunter]

We didn't play the Doggies after the Queens' Birthday. Would have loved to play them late in the season.

I think we are entitled to think we're not behind the "top three" but the "top two".

[Pilgram]

we have overtaken WBD in my opinion and are very close to geelong and hawthorn.

Why have we overtaken WB. Has our break been better than theirs?

I dont think we have overtaken the Dogs on what I saw last year.

Saying we need to improve from the bottom 6-8 players is a huge amount of improvement....but at least guys like Geary, Eddy, Allen etc will be more understanding of whats required at the level.

I hope Armitage puts in a good year...IMHO he needs to become a regular if wer are going to improve.

i see it my way.
i see it as an issue of balance.
while we had a top four team last year gehrig and harvey were the old guys.
all sentiment aside we are a youngish list.
we are a younging list, but we have hunger, and talent, and speed.
hunger, talent and speed are important.
despite what the opposition will tell you we beat the premiers in the home and away. and that is a massive box ticked.
i said after the ling incident that geelong were vulnerable and when it counted they were shown soft.
WBD have a lot going for them, however they lack balance. they lack talls and they lack aggression. rocket has them primed but the engine in that machine is a lesser engine than the st. kilda engine, especially if the saints engine has yet another leading midfielder.
simply put, carroll is dempsters replacement and cousins harvey's. as trades and for the money you couldn't buy better.
i maintain that we have overtaken WBD and the next team in our sights are the geelong cats.
we have already shown that we can beat hawthorn.
geelong are the new subject to assassinate.

[Teflon]

We got lucky in some respects in 4th (we played well at seasons end make no mistake but others also fell over for us).

Were other teams lucky because we fell over at the start????????

Sorry mate but that is such a cop out line!!!!

At the start of the year each team is scheduled to play 22 games and at the end of those 22 games if one team has more points than another then they finish higher

The 1st game of the year is just as important as the 13th game of the year or the 22nd game of the year

We were not lucky - we deserved our 4th place finish just as everyone other team deserved to finish where they did - full stop!!!!!

I think we finished as one of the lowest winning (by games) sides in history to make top 4???

We had some luck - and all sides need it. Nth fell over for us and the Pies also staggered at the right time. Im not downplaying our efforts we played well late in the year (looked dreadful against an undermanned Port at TD but we always look shocking againts them....weird.)

Yeah game 1 is as important as game 22.......just sometimes the context of game 22 (its the business end and sides do funny things as we see every yr rd 22) can be vastly different.

[WayneJudson42]

From another thread...

The funny things about this is...

In a perfect world, Gellong and Hawks should improve.

But in real life, a lot of things can go pear shape quite easily.

Who would have thought the Swans??

Eagles, the next "dynasty"... didn't happen

Same thing Geelong... didn't happen

Essendon circa 2000? What happened.

Based on 2008 form, yes there was a gap. But come 2009, who knows?

All we can do is press as hard as we can. Much of our problems have stemmed from not having enough game time from our boom recruits of 7 years ago.

Hopefully, if we continue to address fitness, and we get a fitter Ball, Goose, X, Kosi, Baker and co on the park, then I think we'll bridge the gap.

Compared to 07, 08 injusries looked a major improvement, yet take a look at who we had out for the majority of the year.

Had we had our best 22 fully fit and firing, I'd be worried. As it stands, having the above players fully fit and in form will be like having the equivalent of new recruits.

That alone would make us serious contenders IMO.

[SainterK]

How close we are, will depend on how consistent we are going to be. Our highs are still to high, and our lows....well you know the rest!