The Seaford Thread

[casey scorp]

[quote="JeffDunne"]Is the $11M a press release figure or is it the actual cost of the project?

I agree though that the $1.43 seems like a blank cheque commitment given the cost over-runs that projects like this almost always seem to incur.

Maybe that’s what Archie meant by a “blank canvasâ€

[aussierules0k]

[kaos theory]

We should stay at Linton Street and develop the facilities.

People need to understand, its not as simple as what we or the club wants, and then things will magically happen.

We live in a real world, not a fantasy world.

Setting up an AFL club infrastructure & facilities is a big job, with many risks & challenges.

When you go through the process of negotiating a site & deal, you have to realize there are many stakeholders (with conflicting requirements), and other variables at play which you cannot control.

It is a COSTLY process. Under the Butters administration, we would have spent 100,000's of dollars going through the process with Moorabbin and it lead to nothing.

We are not BHP Billiton, we do not have endless reserves of cash to hire teams of negotiators, lawyers, etc. to pressure & persuade councils, governments, etc. to do what we want.

There were only 2 viable options: Casey or Seaford..... Given the choice & constraints, I think the club made the best possible decision.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

We should stay at Linton Street and develop the facilities.

Not an option. Kingston City Council dont want us there... it's as simple as that!

[WayneJudson42]

Footscray has a traditional home and the inner west is theirs.
Geelong has a traditional home in a small city.
Blues have the north and a tradional home.
Bombers - got the north west tied up with a traditional home.
Hawks moved to waverley (the scene of many victories for them) but still kept their traditional home - they have the east.
Filth upgraded the training facilities but also kept their traditional home. At the same time they have become omni potent with the most fans accross Aus.
Tigers, have their traditional home.
Roo's - no fans but a traditional home with a training facility.
Demons never had a traditional home, the MCG is/was everyones, like the docklands. The docklands will never be anyones traditional home.

Hawks traditional home is in Hawthorn... their training facilities are how far away?

Geelong don't need to go anywhere because they are a seperate city.

Tigers have crap facilities also.

Bulldogs are staying put thanks to Howard's pork barrelling.

Interesting to note that none of these teams, apart from the Cats play at their "traditional" ground.

We will still play at Docklands. Hawks got the East... we'll get the South East.

FWIW, St Kilda lost any connection when it moved to Moorabbin... which is NOT our traditional home.

[Pilgram]

government and afl wouldn't give us the money to develop linton street anyway.

[GrumpyOne]

government and afl wouldn't give us the money to develop linton street anyway.

Actually they did first time round.

[JeffDunne]

I think what frustrates people in regards to Moorabbin was that there only appeared to be a plan 'A' and that plan required the relocation of pokies.

Once that option was taken off the table it would appear we didn't explore a plan 'B' - i.e. elite training facility with the social club staying where it is.

Now there may have been a very good reason for this but I'm yet to here it.

[Sainter_Dad]

KINGSTON COUNCIL WANTED US OUT OF MOORABBIN.

There was no plan B because plan B to plan Z would all have failed at some point because the council hated us. I believe some Counillors were elected on the get St Kilda out of Moorabbin campaign.

Bring on the Robert Harvey Elite Traiing Facility at Seaford. Bring on the next St Kilda Premiership - I have some flag burning to do (one particular Hawkers flag in our street needs a little warmth applied)

[Pilgram]

government and afl wouldn't give us the money to develop linton street anyway.

Actually they did first time round.

i'm talking about the elite facility poobreath.

[GrumpyOne]

government and afl wouldn't give us the money to develop linton street anyway.

Actually they did first time round.

i'm talking about the elite facility poobreath.

So was I sh1t4brains.

[Solar]

the problem we had with the linto street development was the club was going to be funding a large majority of the costs, the council was anti the development and thus didn't even think of putting in some money.

Thus we needed to fund a loan through the income of the pokies.

[The Craw]

The revenue from the pokies was to underpin the loan that the club was going to get to purchase the parcel of land on South Road. 5 mil if I remember correctly.
Kingston council would not allow the club to relocate them; in fact it wanted the club to decrease the amount therefore reducing the revenue stream to facilitate the loan.
That is why the redevelopment fell through.
The frankston option however did not require this revenue stream therefore no need for the pokies. St Kilda was going to get an asset of 2mill in land.
Seaford requires a reduced input from St Kilda, 1.43 mil + but has a depreciated value cost of no less than 11 mil (a bit like having a car as an asset but depreciates in value) with a lease and agreement of $1 per year and reduced maintenance costs.

Joffaboy could explain this better….

The long and short of it is…..St Kilda needed the pokies for the South rd development, not for the other options.
Seaford makes sense to me…. It reduces the operating costs of the club and at the same time gives the club world class facilities…..couldn’t really give a rat’s toss bag whether supporters like it or not.

As long as it puts the club in the black and gives the club every opportunity to win a flag.

[JeffDunne]

There was no plan B because plan B to plan Z would all have failed at some point because the council hated us.

"Us" or an individual they had to deal with?

Sorry, but that sounds like a pretty poor excuse to me. Plan B could have been explored while we explored other options. Again, not saying we didn't, but I didn't see any evidence of it. To me we appeared to adopt a "f*** you" attitude simply to win a PR battle.

Unlike b4e, I don't have a problem with Seaford as such, however I do think we've been spun sh** from AF through this whole process. The lastest being that quote I highlighted earlier and the suggestion we know what the total cost to the club will be. Bottom line is we are under-writing any cost over-runs and we are probably quoting a figure knowing it will be the minimum rather than the maximam exposure to the club.

[Pilgram]

Unlike b4e, I don't have a problem with Seaford as such, however I do think we've been spun sh** from AF through this whole process. The lastest being that quote I highlighted earlier and the suggestion we know what the total cost to the club will be. Bottom line is we are under-writing any cost over-runs and we are probably quoting a figure knowing it will be the minimum rather than the maximam exposure to the club.

all we've seen are drawings.
drawings are nice but if i have to go down there with a pick a shovel and build the phuking thing myself i will.

[Pilgram]

government and afl wouldn't give us the money to develop linton street anyway.

Actually they did first time round.

i'm talking about the elite facility poobreath.

So was I sh1t4brains.

Grumpy two goals up deep in the last quarter.

[Enrico_Misso]

drawings are nice but if i have to go down there with a pick a shovel and build the phuking thing myself i will.

I thought you claimed that work had already begun ?

[JeffDunne]

The revenue from the pokies was to underpin the loan that the club was going to get to purchase the parcel of land on South Road. 5 mil if I remember correctly.
Kingston council would not allow the club to relocate them; in fact it wanted the club to decrease the amount therefore reducing the revenue stream to facilitate the loan.
That is why the redevelopment fell through.

Actually that's not entirely true in relation to the relocation but I understand why the South Road option fell through.

However the South Road development was a lot more than is being proposed for Seaford and IMO it always looked a risky prospect.

Again, and I keep repeating myself, I'm not saying there weren't valid reasons for not exploring other options at Linton Street but IMO the club didn't explain those reasons at all well other than AF's "f*** you" presser about the council. Blaming the council may have explained why the original proposal didn't get up given their stated position on reducing pokies in the council area but it didn't explain why alternate proposals weren't explored.

[Pilgram]

drawings are nice but if i have to go down there with a pick a shovel and build the phuking thing myself i will.

I thought you claimed that work had already begun ?

i was given a bum steer by a workman down there who was sitting on his fat ar$e telling fibs.

[joffaboy]

The revenue from the pokies was to underpin the loan that the club was going to get to purchase the parcel of land on South Road. 5 mil if I remember correctly.
Kingston council would not allow the club to relocate them; in fact it wanted the club to decrease the amount therefore reducing the revenue stream to facilitate the loan.
That is why the redevelopment fell through.
The frankston option however did not require this revenue stream therefore no need for the pokies. St Kilda was going to get an asset of 2mill in land.
Seaford requires a reduced input from St Kilda, 1.43 mil + but has a depreciated value cost of no less than 11 mil (a bit like having a car as an asset but depreciates in value) with a lease and agreement of $1 per year and reduced maintenance costs.

Joffaboy could explain this better….

The long and short of it is…..St Kilda needed the pokies for the South rd development, not for the other options.
Seaford makes sense to me…. It reduces the operating costs of the club and at the same time gives the club world class facilities…..couldn’t really give a rat’s toss bag whether supporters like it or not.

As long as it puts the club in the black and gives the club every opportunity to win a flag.

No i couldn't. Explained as best to the information received from the club.

We can only go on what the club has told us and the above encaptulates the overall issue perfectly.

[The Craw]

but it didn't explain why alternate proposals weren't explored.

The assumption was no alternative plan was required. The council at the time gave an undertaking that it would be approved.....but you are correct JD the club should never have assumed so, there are no "givens" in any political forum. Suffice to say, options were always going to be available in some shape or form. Unfortunately it didn't manifest into the South Road development rather it manifested elsewhere.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, it does not seem to worry world class clubs that their training bases are not located within their spiritual homes.

Whilst I was surprised with the Frankston decision, I thought Casy was the most logical choice, Seaford makes fiscal sense.

[SainterK]

For what it's worth, I am excited of the prospect of a new facility in Seaford. I support the fact the boys will have a decent training centre, but for purely selfish reasons I will also be relieved not to watch another training session at that cold, depressing, rundown and generally sad place.

I wonder, will people who are not supportive of the decision be willing to admit the club got it right should the move be successful?

[St Fidelius]

For what it's worth, I am excited of the prospect of a new facility in Seaford. I support the fact the boys will have a decent training centre, but for purely selfish reasons I will also be relieved not to watch another training session at that cold, depressing, rundown and generally sad place.

I wonder, will people who are not supportive of the decision be willing to admit the club got it right should the move be successful?

Not a chance in HELL for one poster IMO...

The same poster that rammed it down our throats that RIX was the answer to our ruck for over a year with repeated cut and paste posts of "hit out to advantage" has not mentioned anything of his delisting...

Last seen conducting a survey in Elsternwick, whilst also trying to find the missing 9 holes of their golf course and will present his findings at the next AGM....

Gee, I can't wait

[Eastern]

I would like to see the club conduct a MASSIVE public fundraser to fit the NEW joint out. Furniture companies, gym equipment companies, computer companies, audio visual companies could all donate their wares to the club for the new joint. Individuals could also get involved through a "Buy a Brick" or such fundraiser !!

[St Fidelius]

I would like to see the club conduct a MASSIVE public fundraser to fit the NEW joint out. Furniture companies, gym equipment companies, computer companies, audio visual companies could all donate their wares to the club for the new joint. Individuals could also get involved through a "Buy a Brick" or such fundraiser !!

Good idea Eastern...

The only problem is many companies are facing an economic downturn and are looking at reducing costs...

It would be tough to do, but very much so worth a try...