Ask Archie - Belvedere Park and our alliance with Sandy

[skeptic]

Hey guys posted this to Archie and got a response, thought some of you guys may be interest... Caseyscorp I got 1 in for you too. Enjoy

Hi Archie, thanks for taking the time.

Skeptic
Let me start off by saying congratulations (for you/club etc) for getting things happening in regards to an elite training facility. I can't tell you how frustrating it has been as a supporter to know that the club had identified the dilapidated facilities at Moorabbin as a major weakness in our ability to compete with other clubs and not be able to do anything about it. Firstly there was the Moorabbin Debacle (being from Kingston myself, I strongly believe that the council is made up of morans ) then the problem with Frankston park that seemed to slow things down.

At last it sounds as if this is all done and dusted. While some people have described Belvedere park as somewhat barren, I believe the concept of working with a completelty blank canvass is a good one. Any architect will tell you as much and we should all be mindful that it's the end product we're suppossed to be judging not the start.

My questions are as follows:

*I've read that mid 2010 was the original estimate for completion of the project. Is this still a realistic expection?

*Can you give me an estimate as to when construction will start?

*A year ago, Frankston park seemed set to go ahead as did Moorabbin oval 5 years before that. Is this officially signed off on? As in what are my chances for waking to the heading "Saints sink in Seaford" or something like that?

*I acknowledge that the time for looking around has passed and we all need to move on. I'm just a bit curious as to what factors led to us choosing to head towards Frankston rather than Casey Fields which I understand also made an impressive bid for our services? Would have also permenantly consolidated our alliance with the Casey Scorpions I would have thought.

Speaking of Casey Fields leads to me to my next area of questions. Obviously our relationship with the Casey Scorpions is now over given our alliance with Sandringham. While this move makes sense given the historical link with Sandy and the clubs location in conjunction with our move Frankston + links to Moorabbin (our presence in SE Melb) I can't help but feel a bit saddened. While it took years, Casey Scorps really grew on me and it will a bit of time for me to learn to relove Sandy (ironic I know).

The biggest shame is that after 3-4 years of an awful relationship, politics, inhouse fighting etc, it seemed as though we'd finally managed to get a good working relationship with the Scorps. Our players were being developed right and every Saint was being taught to have pride in the CS jumper. The fact that we had coaches in there seemed to lead to a better working relationship which surprise surprise led to Casey's best year in sometime.

I think we can all agree that the last thing we need right now is to spend another 5 years playing politcal games and power struggles with the Zebras. Now I've heard from Melb supporters that they're quite hard to work with (don't know if that's true) so my question is:

*What strategies have been implemented/considered to ensure a smooth tranistion into our alliance with Sandy?

*Will there be any St.Kilda people working at the club (other than players)?

*Will Greg Hutchinson still be involved (have heard the club is keen to keep him)?

*Have the Saints met with Sandy to discuss these challenges?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer these questions and I apologise for the length of my post.

Keep up the good work, skeptic

Archie's response

Hi Skeptic,

Thanks for your feedback. I’m delighted that we have been able to finalise plans for our elite training and administration facility at Belvedere Park and genuinely believe it is the beginning of a new era for our Club.

Yes – the Saints expect to move into our new facility in mid 2010 and no – you will not be waking to any of those headlines! We have put pen to paper with Frankston City Council to secure the deal and I can assure you that our Club WILL be at Belvedere Park in 2010. It has been over a year in the making and the Club has taken every step possible to ensure our transition to Frankston will be smooth once the Heads of Agreement was signed recently.

Part of the rationale behind our move to Frankston as apposed to Casey was to seize ownership of the Bayside corridor forever, which we are confident of achieving over time. Building the Club's supporter base through this area is a long term strategy and one that we can now exercise, this is not a sprint it’s a marathon.

We understand a number of our supporters will be disappointed to leave the Scorpions behind having developed an affinity with them over a number of years and certainly over the past two years we have developed an outstanding working relationship, but unfortunately this is a reality of football and it was a logical decision for the Club to make when the Sandy opportunity came up. I am not sure you would have been overly happy with us missing the opportunity to secure Sandy as a long term partner for our Club, we should have been with them before now, so when it came up for the second time we grabbed it.

We have met many times with the Sandringham Zebras over the last few months to set the wheels in motion for what we know will be a smooth transition process and a great working relationship. The Club already has a good rapport with the Zebras and very much look forward to working closely with them for a long, long time to come.

Greg Hutchison will not be working directly with the Zebras on a day to day basis as he has taken up the role as Football Manager at the Club however Hutchy will still be across our development programs and our developing players.

Andy Lovell is the Zebras coach and will work from both the Club and the Zebras, much as Hutchy did last year, so we expect even more from this relationship as there is no doubt that Sandy have a winning culture and a sound administration.

Hope to see you down at the Trevor Barker Beach Oval next year!

Go Saints!
Archie


Didn't shed much light on the alliance question... I thought. Still a nice response

[zebraman]

I there maybe a few supporters from Melbourne and St Kilda who got attached to Sandy/Casey...that's normal when you see your AFL players playing for their particular VFL club..

I actually got a bit attached to Melbourne over the 8 years....but as of November 1st 2008 my AFL alliegance will be with St Kilda...

It's an interesting comment re Sandy being difficult to work with...I know a lot of Melbourne supporters felt that Sandy were holding back Michael Newton as we have a pretty handy forward in Nick Sautner...towards the end of last season they were trying to look for a scapegoat for the lousy year they had...and Sandy were an easy target

The only person who has held back Michael Newton...is Michael Newton....he had the gilt edged chance this year to make the full forward position at Melbourne his own...Neitz retired and Robertson had a long term injury...but he got reported playing for Sandy..got injured....can't blame Sandy for that..and strangley enough when Melbourne were getting flogged in a NAB match at Casey Fields earlier this year, Newton was moved to defence

Also as I found out last night that even if Sandy seniors had made the finals this year, Melbnourne were not going to let them play in the finals...our reserves made the finals and there were a couple of Melbourne listed players who played most of the year in the reserves...but they were not allowed to play in the final series..

I'm hoping that there won't be any significant problems with the alliance. We won 4 premierships with the Melbourne alliance and St Kilda's list is a lot better than the Melbourne list

Let's just give it some time...and remember...from talk around the traps the main problem St Kilda and Casey had was with Grant Thomas having zero interest of what was happening at casey...

Go Zebras/ Go Saints

[Saints94]

Yes, can't wait to see our reserves being the Zebra's take the field next year

[zebraman]

Yes, can't wait to see our reserves being the Zebra's take the field next year

nope..we're Sandy...NOT St Kilda reserves...

[St Fidelius]

Thanks for that skeptic...

I wished you asked him WHY some members were sent e-mails as to their preference to games on Friday, Saturday or Sunday (day or night) and others members missed out..

flowering spewing that I had no input to a preference

[iceman]

Great email skeptic, pretty standard response though, no surprises and keeping a Archie's running a pretty tight ship there.

And yes zebraman is correct, the Sandringham Football club is the Sandringham football club NOT IN ANY WAY ST. KILDA RESERVES... The St. Kilda players just make up some of the team representing Sandringham, and on Melbourne supporters thinking SAndy was no good to them... Just because Melbourne had poor list management and a number of players who weren't good enough is their own fault, VFL clubs exist to win in their own right, and the Saints/Scorps were blessed with 2 young lists in the VFL where both could achieve substantial devlopment and success.

If Melbourne think Sandy having a winning culture was a bad thing, maybe Melbourne should rethink their spot in the AFL.

[iceman]

and remember...from talk around the traps the main problem St Kilda and Casey had was with Grant Thomas having zero interest of what was happening at casey...

Go (EDIT)SCORPIONS/ Go Saints

That is very much true, not the only reason, but a very significant reason

[casey scorp]

Caseyscorp I got 1 in for you too.

Thanks for thinking of me.

Good questions, and a reasonable response.

I think the relationship with Sandy should be really good. Close grounds, and hopefully a good working relationship. The Saints will be able to take into the alignment the experience (at last) of a good model which operated in '08. Sandy will be rejuvenated with a new partner.

[Solar]

I there maybe a few supporters from Melbourne and St Kilda who got attached to Sandy/Casey...that's normal when you see your AFL players playing for their particular VFL club..

I actually got a bit attached to Melbourne over the 8 years....but as of November 1st 2008 my AFL alliegance will be with St Kilda...

It's an interesting comment re Sandy being difficult to work with...I know a lot of Melbourne supporters felt that Sandy were holding back Michael Newton as we have a pretty handy forward in Nick Sautner...towards the end of last season they were trying to look for a scapegoat for the lousy year they had...and Sandy were an easy target

The only person who has held back Michael Newton...is Michael Newton....he had the gilt edged chance this year to make the full forward position at Melbourne his own...Neitz retired and Robertson had a long term injury...but he got reported playing for Sandy..got injured....can't blame Sandy for that..and strangley enough when Melbourne were getting flogged in a NAB match at Casey Fields earlier this year, Newton was moved to defence

Also as I found out last night that even if Sandy seniors had made the finals this year, Melbnourne were not going to let them play in the finals...our reserves made the finals and there were a couple of Melbourne listed players who played most of the year in the reserves...but they were not allowed to play in the final series..

I'm hoping that there won't be any significant problems with the alliance. We won 4 premierships with the Melbourne alliance and St Kilda's list is a lot better than the Melbourne list

Let's just give it some time...and remember...from talk around the traps the main problem St Kilda and Casey had was with Grant Thomas having zero interest of what was happening at casey...

Go Zebras/ Go Saints

strangely this is one of the reasons I look forward to seeing us align with sandy next year, the fact that you have a decient spine in place and thus we don't need to see our ruckman as a full forward (killed brooks). I would hate to see mcenvoy being stuck down forward. watch for skilled players in geary, steven

[saintbrat]

Thanks for that skeptic...

I wished you asked him WHY some members were sent e-mails as to their preference to games on Friday, Saturday or Sunday (day or night) and others members missed out..

flowering spewing that I had no input to a preference

Fid - not sure if it was in e-mails or in the member survey which is / was on the right hand side of the home page for the last few weeks of the season and just after- hasn't changed recently- but it covered quite a few topics,

[Bernard Shakey]

It was an email, I got one and gave my response.

[St Fidelius]

Thanks for that skeptic...

I wished you asked him WHY some members were sent e-mails as to their preference to games on Friday, Saturday or Sunday (day or night) and others members missed out..

flowering spewing that I had no input to a preference

Fid - not sure if it was in e-mails or in the member survey which is / was on the right hand side of the home page for the last few weeks of the season and just after- hasn't changed recently- but it covered quite a few topics,

Eastern stated on this site, that he received an email requesting preferences to days and times most suitable to watch the football, I am really p1ssed off that only a few received this email and not all current members.

Surely that email should have been sent off to all current members....

To me it seems like an administration error and a bad one at that

[saintspremiers]

I there maybe a few supporters from Melbourne and St Kilda who got attached to Sandy/Casey...that's normal when you see your AFL players playing for their particular VFL club..

I actually got a bit attached to Melbourne over the 8 years....but as of November 1st 2008 my AFL alliegance will be with St Kilda...

It's an interesting comment re Sandy being difficult to work with...I know a lot of Melbourne supporters felt that Sandy were holding back Michael Newton as we have a pretty handy forward in Nick Sautner...towards the end of last season they were trying to look for a scapegoat for the lousy year they had...and Sandy were an easy target

The only person who has held back Michael Newton...is Michael Newton....he had the gilt edged chance this year to make the full forward position at Melbourne his own...Neitz retired and Robertson had a long term injury...but he got reported playing for Sandy..got injured....can't blame Sandy for that..and strangley enough when Melbourne were getting flogged in a NAB match at Casey Fields earlier this year, Newton was moved to defence

Also as I found out last night that even if Sandy seniors had made the finals this year, Melbnourne were not going to let them play in the finals...our reserves made the finals and there were a couple of Melbourne listed players who played most of the year in the reserves...but they were not allowed to play in the final series..

I'm hoping that there won't be any significant problems with the alliance. We won 4 premierships with the Melbourne alliance and St Kilda's list is a lot better than the Melbourne list

Let's just give it some time...and remember...from talk around the traps the main problem St Kilda and Casey had was with Grant Thomas having zero interest of what was happening at casey...

Go Zebras/ Go Saints

strangely this is one of the reasons I look forward to seeing us align with sandy next year, the fact that you have a decient spine in place and thus we don't need to see our ruckman as a full forward (killed brooks). I would hate to see mcenvoy being stuck down forward. watch for skilled players in geary, steven

Spot on.

What's most important is that we can develop the players the way we like, even if it hurts Sandy's chances on winning.

I guess Zebraman won't like that, but isn't that how all AFL teams treat there "ressies" (ie VFL) teams?

With Lovell on our payroll, I assume it will be similar operations to the Casey arrangement, and Hutchy can assist Lovell so it goes smoothly.

The best thing about the new alignment is that we have our ressies playing back in Melbourne again after 8 years in the wilderness!

[yipper]

I there maybe a few supporters from Melbourne and St Kilda who got attached to Sandy/Casey...that's normal when you see your AFL players playing for their particular VFL club..

I actually got a bit attached to Melbourne over the 8 years....but as of November 1st 2008 my AFL alliegance will be with St Kilda...

It's an interesting comment re Sandy being difficult to work with...I know a lot of Melbourne supporters felt that Sandy were holding back Michael Newton as we have a pretty handy forward in Nick Sautner...towards the end of last season they were trying to look for a scapegoat for the lousy year they had...and Sandy were an easy target

The only person who has held back Michael Newton...is Michael Newton....he had the gilt edged chance this year to make the full forward position at Melbourne his own...Neitz retired and Robertson had a long term injury...but he got reported playing for Sandy..got injured....can't blame Sandy for that..and strangley enough when Melbourne were getting flogged in a NAB match at Casey Fields earlier this year, Newton was moved to defence

Also as I found out last night that even if Sandy seniors had made the finals this year, Melbnourne were not going to let them play in the finals...our reserves made the finals and there were a couple of Melbourne listed players who played most of the year in the reserves...but they were not allowed to play in the final series..

I'm hoping that there won't be any significant problems with the alliance. We won 4 premierships with the Melbourne alliance and St Kilda's list is a lot better than the Melbourne list

Let's just give it some time...and remember...from talk around the traps the main problem St Kilda and Casey had was with Grant Thomas having zero interest of what was happening at casey...

Go Zebras/ Go Saints

strangely this is one of the reasons I look forward to seeing us align with sandy next year, the fact that you have a decient spine in place and thus we don't need to see our ruckman as a full forward (killed brooks). I would hate to see mcenvoy being stuck down forward. watch for skilled players in geary, steven

Spot on.

What's most important is that we can develop the players the way we like, even if it hurts Sandy's chances on winning.

I guess Zebraman won't like that, but isn't that how all AFL teams treat there "ressies" (ie VFL) teams?

With Lovell on our payroll, I assume it will be similar operations to the Casey arrangement, and Hutchy can assist Lovell so it goes smoothly.

The best thing about the new alignment is that we have our ressies playing back in Melbourne again after 8 years in the wilderness!

Wouldn't hurt the situation knowing that Lovell and Hutchy would have worked together previously - as player coach? Teammates?

[GrumpyOne]

The best thing about the new alignment is that we have our ressies playing back in Melbourne again after 8 years in the wilderness!

A Melways for Mr Saintspremiers please.

[saintspremiers]

The best thing about the new alignment is that we have our ressies playing back in Melbourne again after 8 years in the wilderness!

A Melways for Mr Saintspremiers please.

Where do you live Grumps?

I think we need to get a room!

[GrumpyOne]

The best thing about the new alignment is that we have our ressies playing back in Melbourne again after 8 years in the wilderness!

A Melways for Mr Saintspremiers please.

Where do you live Grumps?

I think we need to get a room!

I live and work very close to what you call a wilderness.

Haven't noticed it meeting that description in the last 20 years.

[Saints94]

Yes, can't wait to see our reserves being the Zebra's take the field next year

nope..we're Sandy...NOT St Kilda reserves...

Zebra's I said!

[GrumpyOne]

Yes, can't wait to see our reserves being the Zebra's take the field next year

nope..we're Sandy...NOT St Kilda reserves...

Zebra's I said!

Hey Homey,

The problem was that you referred to Sandy (also Zebras) as the Saints Reserves.

Sandy are a very proud and old club who will not like being referred to as anybody's reserves.

[Saints94]

Yes, can't wait to see our reserves being the Zebra's take the field next year

nope..we're Sandy...NOT St Kilda reserves...

Zebra's I said!

Hey Homey,

The problem was that you referred to Sandy (also Zebras) as the Saints Reserves.

Sandy are a very proud and old club who will not like being referred to as anybody's reserves.

Oh once again my bad