Saints slow to delist.

[SENsei]

Would be more interested to hear your thoughts on players you've seen a bit more of... Boyd, Mellington, McCarthy etc.

[Animal Enclosure]

Bloody short memories regarding Baker.

In 07 he had a very good year, still clearly in the top couple of taggers (and blokes who could get the ball too) until the wife basher ran into him & the tribunal finally got him.

This year he had a knee injury all year & struggled in the games he played as a result.

Bakes is a gun & I will take great pleasure in 'bumping' this thread when he's giving, Judd, Tablett, etc nightmares in 09. He was just as much a vital missing player in the PF as Bally was (albeit for different reasons).

Delist Bakes FFS...

[FullMonty]

Good call Animal!

Bakes is a fantastic tagger and we need his hardness in the middle.

[Quixote]

Yeah, write off Baker. Pfffttt...


He's exactly the sort of player we missed this year - and he'll be back.


De-list Baker...

[bigmicka]

Baker will have had off more than 12 months. That means no carry over points in the tribunal.

We have to give him opportunity to get over this PCL injury and get back on the park.

mic

[skeptic]

Bloody short memories regarding Baker.

In 07 he had a very good year, still clearly in the top couple of taggers (and blokes who could get the ball too) until the wife basher ran into him & the tribunal finally got him.

This year he had a knee injury all year & struggled in the games he played as a result.

Bakes is a gun & I will take great pleasure in 'bumping' this thread when he's giving, Judd, Tablett, etc nightmares in 09. He was just as much a vital missing player in the PF as Bally was (albeit for different reasons).

Delist Bakes FFS...

mate, I hope you do.

i will point out however, that I have never called for him to be delisted, I just think he's on the outer

[To the top]

Re Baker, Teflon has it right in my opinion.

When he won the B&F (with Ball) he could chop the likes of Ablett out of the game but Ablett was more a forward pocket type graduating by getting some time in the mid-field (and why I continue to say we can not afford a "specialist" forward pocket who can not play anywhere else - we just can not afford the luxury in today's game). I recall the final game of a season, at Geelong, when Baker did not give Ablett a "sniff", was injured and Ablett cut us up in the wind and wet after Baker left the ground - but that was 2003. Next season is 2009!

From there Baker has had trouble keeping up with those of similar size to him, is exposed in defence because he is isolated by opposition teams looking to capitalise on his (very honest) limitations.

So his form and his contribution has fallen off markedly.

Now does the occasional useful thing, and some stupid things resulting in his tribunal record and accompanying reputation.

Plus has missed a season with a troublesome knee injury which did not clear as expected.

Summary - may get one more year, but will have to bring something to the team recognising that as 2008 evolved Lyon graduated to an exclusive 191cm plus running defence - so no place for Baker there. Leaves the mid-field in a "run with" role, and is he up to that in 2009?

Honest battler who got the absolute best out of himself (equal B&F one year) but questions now to be answered.

[Saints43]

Re Baker, Teflon has it right in my opinion.

When he won the B&F (with Ball) he could chop the likes of Ablett out of the game but Ablett was more a forward pocket type graduating by getting some time in the mid-field.

How was Judd playng at this time? Fairly well, I thought.

Here's an article from (way) back in Sept 2005 - the B&F season:

In that five-month stretch, he has not had more than two goals kicked on him. He has played on most of the best forwards and midfielders. He restricted Fremantle's "Wizard", Jeff Farmer to two goals in two games. Aaron Davey, Melbourne's brilliant crumber, managed one goal in two games on Baker, and Richmond's Andrew Krakouer was driven to distraction, getting one goal in two games against Baker.

Baker's tactic of bumping and buffeting Chris Judd in round eight against West Coast frustrated the reigning Brownlow medallist and reduced him to a nine-disposal game.

If Bakes still has his pace there is absolutely no reason that he cannot move back into the team.

[Teflon]

Re Baker, Teflon has it right in my opinion.

When he won the B&F (with Ball) he could chop the likes of Ablett out of the game but Ablett was more a forward pocket type graduating by getting some time in the mid-field.

How was Judd playng at this time? Fairly well, I thought.

Here's an article from (way) back in Sept 2005 - the B&F season:

In that five-month stretch, he has not had more than two goals kicked on him. He has played on most of the best forwards and midfielders. He restricted Fremantle's "Wizard", Jeff Farmer to two goals in two games. Aaron Davey, Melbourne's brilliant crumber, managed one goal in two games on Baker, and Richmond's Andrew Krakouer was driven to distraction, getting one goal in two games against Baker.

Baker's tactic of bumping and buffeting Chris Judd in round eight against West Coast frustrated the reigning Brownlow medallist and reduced him to a nine-disposal game.

If Bakes still has his pace there is absolutely no reason that he cannot move back into the team.

I hope to be wrong more than anyone - Baker is a guy that puts his guts in and you love them in your team.

Yes he buffeted Judd in 2005 and frustrated him- the "buffetting off the ball" of a G Ablett in 2009 wont be as easy as it was when he was still learning the midfield caper. Infact, Abletts ability to hold through a tackle and tagger questions is one of the reasons he moved up from good player to elite.

[Con Gorozidis]

no doub bakes get another year. i think thats resolved. this is my order of danger. starting at 1 for most likely to be delisted and going down to possibles..

harves/g retired.

1. rix (probably gone)
2. j attard (gone already?)
3. connors (will probably be shifted to rookie list)
4. l fisher (would have to be very concerned)
5. ferguson (time running out)
6. fizzer (contracted but could be gone anyway)
7. birss ( seems to be out of favour favour with coach)
8. charlie ( probably get 1 more year)
9. x (uncontracted. might be delisted)
10. mcqualtar (probably deserves another shot at it after improving in 08. will be there in 09).

[plugger66]

no doub bakes get another year. i think thats resolved. this is my order of danger. starting at 1 for most likely to be delisted and going down to possibles..

harves/g retired.

1. rix (probably gone)
2. j attard (gone already?)
3. connors (will probably be shifted to rookie list)
4. l fisher (would have to be very concerned)
5. ferguson (time running out)
6. fizzer (contracted but could be gone anyway)
7. birss ( seems to be out of favour favour with coach)
8. charlie ( probably get 1 more year)
9. x (uncontracted. might be delisted)
10. mcqualtar (probably deserves another shot at it after improving in 08. will be there in 09).

Most are probably right but LJ isnt going anywhere as he was injured most of the year and will not be down graded as there is no reason for that to happy and how in hell would X be delisted. If they didnt want him they would have been able to trade him for a third round at least so they must want to keep him. I would think the outs will be and this depends on contracts, Rix, Ferg, LF and mabe Gardiner and Fizz. Off the rookie list will be Attard, Chivers and LVR with Mini and Eddy upgraded. That will give us 4 picks in the main draft and I think 5 in the rookie.

[WinnersOnly]

Cant believe people would even consider axing BAKER, he gives the team what no other player does - mongrel! His form was down last year but he was carrying a knee injury and that speak for itself.

BAKER is exactly what we need more of - a bloke who plays with passion for the team, is prepared to sacrifise their own game for the good of the team, a player who puts his body on the line on every occasions and who tackles with aggression and enjoys bullying the opposition when it is required.

This is the one major aspect we lacked last year aggression and we need to get that attitude back!

[Eastern]

Cant believe people would even consider axing BAKER, he gives the team what no other player does - mongrel! His form was down last year but he was carrying a knee injury and that speak for itself.

How bad was his knee? And, how is it now? I'd suggest that none of us really know.

I'd love to see a fully fit & firing Bakes back out on the park, but if that is in the past .....................well .................AFL footy is a ruthless business. But, before we start dancing on players' graves, lets wait until the 1st List Lodgement in a couple of weeks !!

[To the top]

Teflon you quote from 2005.

Next season is the 2009 season.

[saintjake]

Cant believe people would even consider axing BAKER, he gives the team what no other player does - mongrel! His form was down last year but he was carrying a knee injury and that speak for itself.

How bad was his knee? And, how is it now? I'd suggest that none of us really know.

I'd love to see a fully fit & firing Bakes back out on the park, but if that is in the past .....................well .................AFL footy is a ruthless business. But, before we start dancing on players' graves, lets wait until the 1st List Lodgement in a couple of weeks !!

i might get shot down here.
but with the new fitness staff.
i wouldnt mind seeing fergo get another year...
couldnt be the 3rd foward we are looking for?

JUSTATHOUGHTDONTKILLME

[Saints43]

Teflon you quote from 2005.

Next season is the 2009 season.

It was me who pulled out the artcle from 2005. And ackowleged it was from a fair while ago. But 2005 wasn't the last good football he played, either. He's 28. As long as Bakes can get fit again there is no reason to assume that he can't have in impact for us. He certainly wont have lost the smarts, skills or determination that made him the best player at the club that season.

[bigcarl]

i might get shot down here.
but with the new fitness staff.
i wouldnt mind seeing fergo get another year...
couldnt be the 3rd foward we are looking for?

it's really a second key forward we're looking for, isn't it?

kosi is second ruck/changing forward, so what we're looking for is a full forward ... hopefully one who can kick more than 70 for the season to complement the 70-odd riewoldt will kick if he stands up.

if ferguson can kick 70 plus then i'm all for it, but it's a big if.

he presented and led well against melbourne in his sole opportunity there this season, but unfortunately kicked only points in a game we won by 80 points.

personally i'd find a way to play bj there as i think he's the best man for that position.

but if allen or ferguson puts their hand up and shows they can actually do it (kick 70 odd that is) then i wouldn't complain.

[Eastern]

We really need a Heatley type of forward. I think Jarryd Allen is a lot closer to being that forward than Ferg. That would leave Roo at CHF doing what he does best, Allen as a stay home FF and Kosi as our 3rd Forward option. When Kosi goes on the ball or on the bench we could rotate Goddard & Sam Fisher through there (Ross has said he wants both these guys as on-ballers). Rest them up forward sometimes and on the bench others.

I know that to have this sort of flexibility, a whole lot of other things need to go right including our backline to stand up without them down there !!

[Con Gorozidis]

no doub bakes get another year. i think thats resolved. this is my order of danger. starting at 1 for most likely to be delisted and going down to possibles..

harves/g retired.

1. rix (probably gone)
2. j attard (gone already?)
3. connors (will probably be shifted to rookie list)
4. l fisher (would have to be very concerned)
5. ferguson (time running out)
6. fizzer (contracted but could be gone anyway)
7. birss ( seems to be out of favour favour with coach)
8. charlie ( probably get 1 more year)
9. x (uncontracted. might be delisted)
10. mcqualtar (probably deserves another shot at it after improving in 08. will be there in 09).

Most are probably right but LJ isnt going anywhere as he was injured most of the year and will not be down graded as there is no reason for that to happy and how in hell would X be delisted. If they didnt want him they would have been able to trade him for a third round at least so they must want to keep him. I would think the outs will be and this depends on contracts, Rix, Ferg, LF and mabe Gardiner and Fizz. Off the rookie list will be Attard, Chivers and LVR with Mini and Eddy upgraded. That will give us 4 picks in the main draft and I think 5 in the rookie.

well gardi is safe - he just signed a year contract.
nothing aganst LJ - im all for keeping him. just think a year n the rookie would be ok? hes probbaly not ready for senior footy yet.

as for x - well i agree they could have traded him - but hes still uncontracted. so they cant want him too much. and he was dropped. so hes not exactly top of the pops lets face it.

[plugger66]

no doub bakes get another year. i think thats resolved. this is my order of danger. starting at 1 for most likely to be delisted and going down to possibles..

harves/g retired.

1. rix (probably gone)
2. j attard (gone already?)
3. connors (will probably be shifted to rookie list)
4. l fisher (would have to be very concerned)
5. ferguson (time running out)
6. fizzer (contracted but could be gone anyway)
7. birss ( seems to be out of favour favour with coach)
8. charlie ( probably get 1 more year)
9. x (uncontracted. might be delisted)
10. mcqualtar (probably deserves another shot at it after improving in 08. will be there in 09).

Most are probably right but LJ isnt going anywhere as he was injured most of the year and will not be down graded as there is no reason for that to happy and how in hell would X be delisted. If they didnt want him they would have been able to trade him for a third round at least so they must want to keep him. I would think the outs will be and this depends on contracts, Rix, Ferg, LF and mabe Gardiner and Fizz. Off the rookie list will be Attard, Chivers and LVR with Mini and Eddy upgraded. That will give us 4 picks in the main draft and I think 5 in the rookie.

well gardi is safe - he just signed a year contract.
nothing aganst LJ - im all for keeping him. just think a year n the rookie would be ok? hes probbaly not ready for senior footy yet.

as for x - well i agree they could have traded him - but hes still uncontracted. so they cant want him too much. and he was dropped. so hes not exactly top of the pops lets face it.

Didnt we sign MG. I was talking about Charlie like you were.

[Bernard Shakey]

Unfortunately, Baker's knee has all the hallmarks of a former #2.

I hope not, but the signs are there.

[cowboy18]

Unfortunately, Baker's knee has all the hallmarks of a former #2.

Good. I expect him back in 2 weeks.

[Teflon]

I hope you are right with McQualter, for me I still prefer Baker ATM

Jesus. I'm sort of relying on Bakes to get right.

He'll be older (28 going on 29) but if he gets back in the team he wont be much slower than the bloke who could keep up with (and hammer) Judd and Ablett.

A player who plays within his limits but is not especially limited. Not good overhead.

I hope he can get his fitness issues right because he can be an asset to the club again.

when Baker beat Ablett ....Ablett was still seen as a developing mid - fwd pocket expert.

Hes now elite mid.

Baker is not elite tagger anymore.

Ling/Sewell are.

BIG difference.

I'm pretty sure I described him as 'A player who plays within his limits but is not especially limited' who would be an 'asset to the club again'.

It was in camparing him to McQualter rather than Sewell and discussing his pace.

I think he's still got a lot to offer Saints.

Would be more interested to hear your thoughts on players you've seen a bit more of... Boyd, Mellington, McCarthy etc.

Your worse than Rod Butters/Grant "Jargon" Thomas...."brilliantly limited but not really brilliant.." yer righto....

Anyway....back on track...

Baker is a tagger who (just like Mqualter who I also dont rate highly) cant win his own posession OR like the best taggers going round now aka Ling/Sewell hurt sides going the other way.

As TTT says hes singled out by the opposition when played in defence, not particulalry quick or tall enough to effect a spoil and Im yet to see any defensive rebound dash from him aka Gilbert/Sam Fisher - the taller defender Lyon seems to prefer.

FWIW as I said Id love to see Baker get over his injury and win another B/F....hes a type of player thats great in a team but I cant see it is all.

Perhaps he could go forward like McCarthy...Id be interested in where hes gonna add this value you're on about.....or you still think the coach should be sacked and are still upset about looking like a bit of a dill cause we made top 4 is that it?

[Saints Premiers 2008]

I hope you are right with McQualter, for me I still prefer Baker ATM

Jesus. I'm sort of relying on Bakes to get right.

He'll be older (28 going on 29) but if he gets back in the team he wont be much slower than the bloke who could keep up with (and hammer) Judd and Ablett.

A player who plays within his limits but is not especially limited. Not good overhead.

I hope he can get his fitness issues right because he can be an asset to the club again.

when Baker beat Ablett ....Ablett was still seen as a developing mid - fwd pocket expert.

Hes now elite mid.

Baker is not elite tagger anymore.

Ling/Sewell are.

BIG difference.

I'm pretty sure I described him as 'A player who plays within his limits but is not especially limited' who would be an 'asset to the club again'.

It was in camparing him to McQualter rather than Sewell and discussing his pace.

I think he's still got a lot to offer Saints.

Would be more interested to hear your thoughts on players you've seen a bit more of... Boyd, Mellington, McCarthy etc.

Your worse than Rod Butters/Grant "Jargon" Thomas...."brilliantly limited but not really brilliant.." yer righto....

Anyway....back on track...

Baker is a tagger who (just like Mqualter who I also dont rate highly) cant win his own posession OR like the best taggers going round now aka Ling/Sewell hurt sides going the other way.

As TTT says hes singled out by the opposition when played in defence, not particulalry quick or tall enough to effect a spoil and Im yet to see any defensive rebound dash from him aka Gilbert/Sam Fisher - the taller defender Lyon seems to prefer.

FWIW as I said Id love to see Baker get over his injury and win another B/F....hes a type of player thats great in a team but I cant see it is all.

Perhaps he could go forward like McCarthy...Id be interested in where hes gonna add this value you're on about.....or you still think the coach should be sacked and are still upset about looking like a bit of a dill cause we made top 4 is that it?

100% correct, he is a liability down back as either our backs play kpp or run off....he does neither and can get shown up for it

the taller running defender is the way to go imo, like a fisher, gilbert and a lesser extent gram...all have the ability to play tall and small and can run

i said it back in 06 when maxxy went down and goose was rehabbing...it was an invaluable exercise playing fish, goddard and gram at chb/fb in the regulars absence...although it was out of necessity

[Con Gorozidis]

whether baker plays or not is pretty irrelevant- who knows how is knee is?

either way - anyone who expects him to have a significant impact on the afl competition circa 2009 and beyond are dreaming.

if he plays it will be as a depth guy. a contributor to the 22. he will not be anywhere near a star. 2005 was his peak. no doubt. so lets just say what a great servant he was for the saints this last decade. if he gets a few games in 09 it is a bonus.

anyone thinking he is going to help us win games or improve from 4th next year is dreaming.