Saints slow to delist.

[saintsRrising]

Well comapred to many clubs the Saints have been slow to make their delistings.

I suspect that in part this is because there are few outright hacks, but many players who are almost good enough but are not quite and/or have a potential upside that they have not yet delivered on.

As such do the Saints keep them for depth or move them on to give their spot to a kid?

If we assume that Gehrig and Harvey just make way for Ray and hopefully Cousins we still have a number of players to move on for new kids.



With MG re-signed Rix must have a question mark. He reportedly likea number of players has one year ofa contract to go though.



However Rix is not good enough and with King, MG and Ben on the list as well as Kosi Rix would seem to be taking upa valuable spot (despite his staus as the No. 1 Clubman).



Ferguson has shown talkent, but witha huge injury record. Will they believe that Misson can fix him up?



Charlie. Better than VFL, but no quiet AFL. However the forward line often works well with him in the team and we currently have no real medium marking forwards (Jericho maybea better option?).



Birss. Looked ok to me, but seemed to fall out of favour last season.



McQualter. Re-built his career last year after being rookied. However he still does not really look like an AFL level player to me and needs to improve more.



Howard. Has been givena 2 year deal. However his form at Casey while much better than last year is stil below AFL.



Fiora. Has a year to go after a useful 2007, but a disappointing 2008. Will he be kept for depth?



Gwilt. Showed glimpses of being a useful forward. But against quality teams his lack of football awareness shown out. I am yet to be convinced that he has what it takes aginst elit teams.



Attard. Is on the rookie list, but must be elevated to be kept. hada bit of an injury set back coming back from his kneee. Is their room to elevate him? If so then someone else must go.



Eddy showed a lot in 2008 in the last half and would one would expect gain an elevation to the senior list.


Jones and Geary both showed enough in 2008 to be kept.
Rap had fantastic late season revival (after having had two understanable reasons not to play well earlier in the year).

[Spinner]

When are delistings due?

[St Chris]

Fiora need to be cut, to make a statement if nothing else.

The whole football world knows what he represents - front-runner, soft, etc...

St Kilda will never win a premiership with a guy like him in the side. He has no more excuses, and although he might be a better player than say a Howard or a Attard or a Geary, they are much more important to our quest for a flag than Fiora is.

[fingers]

When are delistings due?

Have to be done by end Oct I believe.

[bigcarl]

Gwilt. Showed glimpses of being a useful forward.

he kicked three goals in 2008. i think he's a useful half back or winger, but would like to see more in the way of goals if he's to be used as a forward.

[Eastern]

When are delistings due?

The 1st "List Lodgement" of 35 players must be submitted to the AFL by 2.00pm on Friday 31 October 2008. We still have 2 weeks !!

[Spinner]

When are delistings due?

The 1st "List Lodgement" of 35 players must be submitted to the AFL by 2.00pm on Friday 31 October 2008. We still have 2 weeks !!

I thought it was today.

[Ice Wolf]

I'd rather they take their time when it comes delisting players. Don't want them making mistakes and they are dealing with peoples careers.

[skeptic]

i would suspect that the majority of decisions have already been made and those players involved already know their fate,

What's slowing the process down in terms of making it official is that the club would be assessing the liklihood of them getting Ben Cousins hence they are unsure as to whether they should free up the final spot on the list for him

IMO Baker, Firoa, L. Fisher, and Birss are all hoped Cousins would go to Collingwod and are now weary of getting a call from the club

[Spinner]

i would suspect that the majority of decisions have already been made and those players involved already know their fate,

What's slowing the process down in terms of making it official is that the club would be assessing the liklihood of them getting Ben Cousins hence they are unsure as to whether they should free up the final spot on the list for him

IMO Baker, Firoa, L. Fisher, and Birss are all hoped Cousins would go to Collingwod and are now weary of getting a call from the club

Baker?

[saintbrat]

i would suspect that the majority of decisions have already been made and those players involved already know their fate,

What's slowing the process down in terms of making it official is that the club would be assessing the liklihood of them getting Ben Cousins hence they are unsure as to whether they should free up the final spot on the list for him

IMO Baker, Firoa, L. Fisher, and Birss are all hoped Cousins would go to Collingwod and are now weary of getting a call from the club

Baker?

Baker has a contract why would he be wondering??????



It's not that the saints are slow it's that some clubs started BEFORE the season had finished.............................

from recollection there can stil be list movement right up till last list lodgement- Dec.

[SENsei]

Delistings not due until 2pm on 31st October 2008.

I don't care if they take their time and announce them 1.45pm on 31st October 2008.

They work to THEIR timeframe, not our's. Or any other club's.

[skeptic]

Baker has a contract why would he be wondering??????



It's not that the saints are slow it's that some clubs started BEFORE the season had finished.............................

from recollection there can stil be list movement right up till last list lodgement- Dec.[/quote]

point taken... i'm just of the opinion that RL doesn't rate him

[St Fidelius]

Baker has a contract why would he be wondering??????



It's not that the saints are slow it's that some clubs started BEFORE the season had finished.............................

from recollection there can stil be list movement right up till last list lodgement- Dec.

point taken... i'm just of the opinion that RL doesn't rate him[/quote]

Baker won the B &F not that long ago, I really don't see why you think that RL doesn't rate him...

[bergholt]

These guys were in the team regularly and so are obviously safe:

Hudghton, King, Hayes, Milne, Blake, Fisher S, Koschitzke, Riewoldt, Montagna, Dempster, Jones, Dal Santo, Gram, Schneider, Ball, Goddard, Gilbert

These guys are young and haven't yet run out of chances:

Allen, Armitage, Geary, McEvoy, Connors, Steven

These guys were more or less debatable but will stay:

Gardiner M, Clarke X, Maguire, Clarke R, Howard, Eddy

M Gardiner despite not playing much just signed a new contract. X Clarke couldn't get fit - again - but won't be dumped yet. Maguire didn't play much but obviously deserves time to get fit. R Clarke came back into the side and did enough to hang around. Howard seemed to have run out of chances but signed a controversial new contract. Eddy played a lot of games and has been promoted to a real contract.

Which just leaves these, in order of most likely to be gone:

Harvey: retired
Gehrig: retired
Fisher, L: gone - somehow got on the wrong side of Ross?
Gardiner, C: gone - doesn't appear to have a contract and hasn't really performed.
Attard: gone - apparently, though seems a waste after doing all his rehab.
Van Rheenen: probably gone - has had his time.
Ferguson: maybe - he's been around a long time without getting there.
McQualter: maybe - played plenty of games but is limited and may be out of time.
Rix: maybe - apparently has a contract but doesn't really have a spot any more.
Fiora: maybe - has a contract but everyone wants him out.
Miles, Chivers, Haretuku: one might go but the others are only rookies.
Birss: possibly - I rate him somewhat, but he missed out on the finals.
Gwilt: possibly - improving slowly but still doesn't have a position.
Baker: surely not - but he had a shocking year with injuries.

We want to use at least four picks in the national draft, so given that Eddy takes up a spot, Ray takes up a spot and Cousins looks like he will, we need to dump seven players. That's Harvey, Gehrig, Fisher L, Gardiner C, Ferguson, Rix and Birss or Fiora. McQualter can't stay on the rookie list, so it's possible he goes as well. Attard, Van Rheenen and maybe Chivers also go from the rookie list to make space for four rookie picks.

Bit tough on Ferguson, C Gardiner and Birss (probably), but I can't see any other way to make the numbers work.

[bergholt]

Baker won the B &F not that long ago, I really don't see why you think that RL doesn't rate him...

Rossco didn't give him the best and fairest, so why should those two things be related at all?

[SainterK]

Slow or careful?

[ausfatcat]

Why does evryone thiink Howard has been around for more than two years??


He's only had two years was drafted as a project player and has made steady progress.

I really don't see what the problem is with people and the two year contract.

[St Fidelius]

Why does evryone thiink Howard has been around for more than two years??


He's only had two years was drafted as a project player and has made steady progress.

I really don't see what the problem is with people and the two year contract.

The initial problem with that is that he was our second round draft pick, which is not normally associated with "project players"

All I can say is that the club has shown a fair bit of belief in this kid, and I really do hope it pays out...

I only started this thread because I have only seen him in the one game and what I saw was not that impressive...

So I started the thread to get some insight from supporters that have seen more of him

[skeptic]

St. Fid, my opinion is this... (I will point out however that I have no inside sources or anything like that, it's just my opinion)

There's was talk when RL came to the club that he gave Baker a rather negative review

I don't remember Baker's 2007 all that well other than to say that I think he was 1 of many players that had a below expectations season
I do remember that he got pantsed by a few of the quicker forwards and midfielders.

The club did very little to show their support for Baker (at least on a public level) when he was suspended for 6-7 games for that incident with Farmer. It was a pi$$ weak incident and they just sucked it up.

Obviously he was out injured for the most part of this season...
He's getting older
He's getting slower

We've got McQualter, Jones and Eddy developing in that role... possibly Attard too + Li. Fisher was tried to

Just my suspicion but I think RL is planning for life w/o him

[St Fidelius]

St. Fid, my opinion is this... (I will point out however that I have no inside sources or anything like that, it's just my opinion)

There's was talk when RL came to the club that he gave Baker a rather negative review

I don't remember Baker's 2007 all that well other than to say that I think he was 1 of many players that had a below expectations season
I do remember that he got pantsed by a few of the quicker forwards and midfielders.

The club did very little to show their support for Baker (at least on a public level) when he was suspended for 6-7 games for that incident with Farmer. It was a pi$$ weak incident and they just sucked it up.

Obviously he was out injured for the most part of this season...
He's getting older
He's getting slower

We've got McQualter, Jones and Eddy developing in that role... possibly Attard too + Li. Fisher was tried to

Just my suspicion but I think RL is planning for life w/o him

Fair enough mate...

My take on it is a little different...

The personnel that were there to support him at the hearing was not RL...

The football operations manager was Ken Sheldon at the time, and he was sacked by the new admin...

I hope you are right with McQualter, for me I still prefer Baker ATM

[Saints43]

I hope you are right with McQualter, for me I still prefer Baker ATM

Jesus. I'm sort of relying on Bakes to get right.

He'll be older (28 going on 29) but if he gets back in the team he wont be much slower than the bloke who could keep up with (and hammer) Judd and Ablett.

A player who plays within his limits but is not especially limited. Not good overhead.

I hope he can get his fitness issues right because he can be an asset to the club again.

[Teflon]

I hope you are right with McQualter, for me I still prefer Baker ATM

Jesus. I'm sort of relying on Bakes to get right.

He'll be older (28 going on 29) but if he gets back in the team he wont be much slower than the bloke who could keep up with (and hammer) Judd and Ablett.

A player who plays within his limits but is not especially limited. Not good overhead.

I hope he can get his fitness issues right because he can be an asset to the club again.

when Baker beat Ablett ....Ablett was still seen as a developing mid - fwd pocket expert.

Hes now elite mid.

Baker is not elite tagger anymore.

Ling/Sewell are.

BIG difference.

[Saints43]

I hope you are right with McQualter, for me I still prefer Baker ATM

Jesus. I'm sort of relying on Bakes to get right.

He'll be older (28 going on 29) but if he gets back in the team he wont be much slower than the bloke who could keep up with (and hammer) Judd and Ablett.

A player who plays within his limits but is not especially limited. Not good overhead.

I hope he can get his fitness issues right because he can be an asset to the club again.

when Baker beat Ablett ....Ablett was still seen as a developing mid - fwd pocket expert.

Hes now elite mid.

Baker is not elite tagger anymore.

Ling/Sewell are.

BIG difference.

I'm pretty sure I described him as 'A player who plays within his limits but is not especially limited' who would be an 'asset to the club again'.

It was in camparing him to McQualter rather than Sewell and discussing his pace.

I think he's still got a lot to offer Saints.

Would be more interested to hear your thoughts on players you've seen a bit more of... Boyd, Mellington, McCarthy etc.

[Otiman]

I think you have all forgotten how good Bakes was. B&F winner with good reason.

Had an equivalent shutdown capacity to that of Max, and had a better offensive side to his game, and could take a great mark for a little guy.

Could even be the lead-up Hamill style HFF we're after.

Best kick for goal at the club (before Birss)