3rd Tall Forward ? !!
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- Eastern
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14357
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 1:46pm
- Location: 3132
- Been thanked: 1 time
3rd Tall Forward ? !!
Could we play Sam Fisher in that role? I reckon we could, but a lot of cards would have to fall in our favour to enable it;
Raph Clarke & Sam Gilbert would need to continue to develop as defenders
Goose would need to come back at or near his absolute best
Max would have to stay injury free
Jarryd Allen continues to develop, with a flexibility to play at both ends of the ground
Yes, I am interested in others thoughts !!
Raph Clarke & Sam Gilbert would need to continue to develop as defenders
Goose would need to come back at or near his absolute best
Max would have to stay injury free
Jarryd Allen continues to develop, with a flexibility to play at both ends of the ground
Yes, I am interested in others thoughts !!
- Armoooo
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7281
- Joined: Sun 26 Nov 2006 2:28pm
- Location: The Great South East
- Contact:
I believe so, he is a good mark and one of our best kicks... Ideally we would play Goddard there but he is needed too much in the centre of the ground...
If Maguire and Hudghton could play a full season each I would have thought that Sam Fisher would be almost certain to spend time up front with Raph and Gilbo playing his role down back...
Dam having another Goddard are two would be nice wouldn't it![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
If Maguire and Hudghton could play a full season each I would have thought that Sam Fisher would be almost certain to spend time up front with Raph and Gilbo playing his role down back...
Dam having another Goddard are two would be nice wouldn't it
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
i think he is far too valuable as a defender, but would be happy for us if it were to happen to great success. I agree with most of your post, except when Jarryd Allen played in defence at Casey he was next to absolutely embarrassing. I think the inroads he made this season up forward (which he did improve remarkably) are far to important to be trialled down back again.
- Armoooo
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7281
- Joined: Sun 26 Nov 2006 2:28pm
- Location: The Great South East
- Contact:
Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?
I think his stopping abilities aren't that great and if he were put on a top quality forward we would get beaten more often than not.
IMO his biggest strength was always setting up the play and hitting up his target as well as going for runs... playing on a HFF he is able to do all o that, and maybe even hit a forward on the chest, wouldn't that be nice![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
I think his stopping abilities aren't that great and if he were put on a top quality forward we would get beaten more often than not.
IMO his biggest strength was always setting up the play and hitting up his target as well as going for runs... playing on a HFF he is able to do all o that, and maybe even hit a forward on the chest, wouldn't that be nice
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
Far from overated unless you think our coaching panel know nothing. Unlike some here I think he should always play back as he is nearly the best in the AFL at getting on his own and setting up play so why do we want to move him to the forward line or in the midfield just in case he is good in those positions. Play your best players in their best positions.Armoooo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?
I think his stopping abilities aren't that great and if he were put on a top quality forward we would get beaten more often than not.
IMO his biggest strength was always setting up the play and hitting up his target as well as going for runs... playing on a HFF he is able to do all o that, and maybe even hit a forward on the chest, wouldn't that be nice
it's my opinion that he does his best work 30m from the opposition goal to the 50m arc at our end, so being a '3rd tall' would be irrelevent if he as to do what you want him to do Armooo and can be extremely beneficial on a HBF. he shouldn't have, however was unfortunate enough to have CHB for the majority of the year, so being on a HBF he wouldn't be required to take opposition 'top quality' forward.
He won our B&F in the backline and I think he is far too valuable there.
But as i said, sometimes these things pay off. I wouldn't touch a thing though at this stage. Not while he's playing like he is.
He won our B&F in the backline and I think he is far too valuable there.
But as i said, sometimes these things pay off. I wouldn't touch a thing though at this stage. Not while he's playing like he is.
- Armoooo
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7281
- Joined: Sun 26 Nov 2006 2:28pm
- Location: The Great South East
- Contact:
I don't believe he should be played in a key back role unless we are desperate.
I also believe that we have players who could do his role well (not as good) on a half back flank...
The way I look at it is playing Raph or Gilbert on the flank were Chips would play will decrease our backline say 10% but if may increase our forwardline 20% if that were the case it would definitely be worth it...
I wouldn't mind seeing it tried out in the NAB cup just to see if it would work...
I also believe that we have players who could do his role well (not as good) on a half back flank...
The way I look at it is playing Raph or Gilbert on the flank were Chips would play will decrease our backline say 10% but if may increase our forwardline 20% if that were the case it would definitely be worth it...
I wouldn't mind seeing it tried out in the NAB cup just to see if it would work...
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
- Armoooo
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7281
- Joined: Sun 26 Nov 2006 2:28pm
- Location: The Great South East
- Contact:
I'm not saying he's not a great player, I just don't believe his one on one shutdown abilities are as good as they're made out to be...Otiman wrote:2008: AA, B&F.Armoooo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
i really think jarryd allen is the most important piece of the saints puzzle next year.
if he is no good we will really struggle. if he is decent then we will be pretty good.
we have tried raph, gwilt, c gardner.
fact is on 2004 when we wre good - the g train kicked a ton. so thats 100 goals we need to find - with no real additions to the forward line since then.
so jarryd allen needs to step up. if hes no good we are in trouble.
i really hope hes good.
putting sam fisher up there would be robbing peter to pay paul. we need an extra good player,
if he is no good we will really struggle. if he is decent then we will be pretty good.
we have tried raph, gwilt, c gardner.
fact is on 2004 when we wre good - the g train kicked a ton. so thats 100 goals we need to find - with no real additions to the forward line since then.
so jarryd allen needs to step up. if hes no good we are in trouble.
i really hope hes good.
putting sam fisher up there would be robbing peter to pay paul. we need an extra good player,
- Armoooo
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7281
- Joined: Sun 26 Nov 2006 2:28pm
- Location: The Great South East
- Contact:
We may be in trouble because I don't think Allen is going to kick a tonne next year...
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
- Otiman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8607
- Joined: Thu 28 Jul 2005 11:09pm
- Location: Elsewhere
- Has thanked: 196 times
- Been thanked: 615 times
Has had some reasonable scalps this year.Armoooo wrote:I'm not saying he's not a great player, I just don't believe his one on one shutdown abilities are as good as they're made out to be...Otiman wrote:2008: AA, B&F.Armoooo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?
Pavlich, Lucas, probably more that I can't think of off the top of my head.
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30091
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1233 times
- Mr Magic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12775
- Joined: Fri 04 May 2007 9:38am
- Has thanked: 784 times
- Been thanked: 425 times
But Sam Fisher could play the O'Keefe role if you could release him from his role down back.saintsRrising wrote:3 tall fowards are too cumbersome unless they are all like Roo..
What we need is a medium forward.
I would love O'Keefe...but it is not going to happen..
IMHO Gilbo doesn't have his kicking or marking skills, but certainly has his pace and run.
Raph is slightly deficient in comparison with his marking and kicking skills (better than Gilbo's) but doesn't have anywhere near his pace and run.
The player that we are looking for is another Sam Fisher - 190cms of marking. kicking, running and 'footy smarts'.
Maybe it's Luke Miles off our Rookie List?
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Wed 05 May 2004 11:13pm
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
Gilbert will make a better forward then backman and you would suspect that he will play more up the ground next year if we have a fit Maguire and (hopefully touch wood) Luke Miles (looked like he could make the grade from what i have seen).
Gilbert can kick goals and wil put pressure on inside 50 but he has troubole on quality small forwards (see Williams and S.Johnson ).
He is actually quite good at reading the ball in the air and has good hands but s***s himself when he knows the opposition mids are going to kick to his opponent one out.
Gilbert can kick goals and wil put pressure on inside 50 but he has troubole on quality small forwards (see Williams and S.Johnson ).
He is actually quite good at reading the ball in the air and has good hands but s***s himself when he knows the opposition mids are going to kick to his opponent one out.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16949
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3602 times
- Been thanked: 2875 times
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Fri 19 Sep 2008 2:19pm
- Been thanked: 8 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18599
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1924 times
- Been thanked: 852 times
we need to find a goal-kicking full forward if we are to challenge the reigning premier and benchmark team hawthorn.
they had two key forwards who kicked 190 goals between them.
we had one who kicked 60-odd.
i'm not convinced allen is the answer, at least not yet.
he's a likely type, but kicked just 23 goals for casey last season.
i'd like to see more in the way of goals before we throw him into one of the most important key positions on the ground.
there's a good argument for playing one of your best players at full forward.
hawthorn does it.
it's not a position to be taken lightly or just filled with someone who cannot cut it for a spot on the half back line.
if it were my choice, i'd have goddard there.
bj would make us look that much more potent scoring-wise.
i reckon can we cover him in the midfield and we must if we are to challenge free-wheeling and high-scoring teams such as hawthorn and geelong.
ross has been in the job long enough now to start taking some chances and to try to win a few matches with his better players in attacking positions rather than trying to lock teams down all the time.
the forward line i'd like to see:
hf: milne, riewoldt, dal santo
f: kosi, goddard, schneider
they had two key forwards who kicked 190 goals between them.
we had one who kicked 60-odd.
i'm not convinced allen is the answer, at least not yet.
he's a likely type, but kicked just 23 goals for casey last season.
i'd like to see more in the way of goals before we throw him into one of the most important key positions on the ground.
there's a good argument for playing one of your best players at full forward.
hawthorn does it.
it's not a position to be taken lightly or just filled with someone who cannot cut it for a spot on the half back line.
if it were my choice, i'd have goddard there.
bj would make us look that much more potent scoring-wise.
i reckon can we cover him in the midfield and we must if we are to challenge free-wheeling and high-scoring teams such as hawthorn and geelong.
ross has been in the job long enough now to start taking some chances and to try to win a few matches with his better players in attacking positions rather than trying to lock teams down all the time.
the forward line i'd like to see:
hf: milne, riewoldt, dal santo
f: kosi, goddard, schneider
Last edited by bigcarl on Sat 11 Oct 2008 10:31pm, edited 6 times in total.
I think the key is versatility
if some of our backmen are capable of playing forward when the match-ups suit then why not? goddard, gilbert, raph, chips, goose and even grammy could all be damaging in the front half. I'm not suggesting all the time but if we can mix it up and throw these guys around then why not?
the most dangerous aspect of Hawthorn's forward line was the number of options - Buddy, Roughhead, Williams, Rioli, Brown
don't forget Frase was full back before he was a dual coleman medalist
how do we know that Sam wouldn't make a better forward than backman? he was a forward when recruited.
I think anything is worth a try and I'm desperate to see some quality support for Roo in the forward line. It's far to easy to shut our forward line down at the moment - stop Roo and Milne = stop St Kilda kicking a decent score.
if we can cover chips down back then why not throw him forward at times? he's got all the skills to be a quality forward.
if some of our backmen are capable of playing forward when the match-ups suit then why not? goddard, gilbert, raph, chips, goose and even grammy could all be damaging in the front half. I'm not suggesting all the time but if we can mix it up and throw these guys around then why not?
the most dangerous aspect of Hawthorn's forward line was the number of options - Buddy, Roughhead, Williams, Rioli, Brown
don't forget Frase was full back before he was a dual coleman medalist
how do we know that Sam wouldn't make a better forward than backman? he was a forward when recruited.
I think anything is worth a try and I'm desperate to see some quality support for Roo in the forward line. It's far to easy to shut our forward line down at the moment - stop Roo and Milne = stop St Kilda kicking a decent score.
if we can cover chips down back then why not throw him forward at times? he's got all the skills to be a quality forward.