Summary of what Burke said:
http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/ ... wsId=68815
saints pitch for cousins
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
Animal Enclosure
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2364
- Joined: Mon 04 Apr 2005 2:37pm
- Location: Saints Footy Central
I'm not sure where the 'Cousins hasn't played for 18 months' comes from.
He played in the semi-final in 2007. If he plays Round 1 2009 he would have missed ONE season (just like many blokes who do their knee do). If you are counting off seasons now then you would have to say every player is a risk as they haven't played a game for 6 months!
His strength has always been is unbelievable fitness & was always though to be the kind of bloke who could play deep into his 30's.
If he can play 2 seasons in the middle he could always spend a season or two on a HFF too.
His addiction is the only (and it is a HUGE factor) question mark over the bloke's ability to play.
He played in the semi-final in 2007. If he plays Round 1 2009 he would have missed ONE season (just like many blokes who do their knee do). If you are counting off seasons now then you would have to say every player is a risk as they haven't played a game for 6 months!
His strength has always been is unbelievable fitness & was always though to be the kind of bloke who could play deep into his 30's.
If he can play 2 seasons in the middle he could always spend a season or two on a HFF too.
His addiction is the only (and it is a HUGE factor) question mark over the bloke's ability to play.
-
evertonfc
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7262
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 9:11pm
- Location: 'Quietly Confident' County
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 267 times
- Contact:
Can everyone please read the above post?Animal Enclosure wrote:I'm not sure where the 'Cousins hasn't played for 18 months' comes from.
He played in the semi-final in 2007. If he plays Round 1 2009 he would have missed ONE season (just like many blokes who do their knee do). If you are counting off seasons now then you would have to say every player is a risk as they haven't played a game for 6 months!
His strength has always been is unbelievable fitness & was always though to be the kind of bloke who could play deep into his 30's.
If he can play 2 seasons in the middle he could always spend a season or two on a HFF too.
His addiction is the only (and it is a HUGE factor) question mark over the bloke's ability to play.
It's the only fair summation of the situation.
Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.
In that QF how did he go? Hamstring. 2nd hamstring in two months. Played 7 games that year. So effectively, 7 games in two seasons.Animal Enclosure wrote:I'm not sure where the 'Cousins hasn't played for 18 months' comes from.
He played in the semi-final in 2007. If he plays Round 1 2009 he would have missed ONE season (just like many blokes who do their knee do). If you are counting off seasons now then you would have to say every player is a risk as they haven't played a game for 6 months!
His strength has always been is unbelievable fitness & was always though to be the kind of bloke who could play deep into his 30's.
If he can play 2 seasons in the middle he could always spend a season or two on a HFF too.
His addiction is the only (and it is a HUGE factor) question mark over the bloke's ability to play.
Last game Sept 2007 to March 2009 = 18mths or potentially 7 games of football since Sept 2006....7 games in 30 months.
His fitness is the HUGE factor, not his addiction. He proved before he could play good football with the addiction.
Poster formerly known as SENsaintsational. More wisdom. More knowledge. Less name.
And just to add one further comment....this is akin to a comeback from a retirement. At least 12mths out of the game.
How many successful comebacks have there been from a retirement?
Stewart Dew is the only recent success and he hasn't done it easy. Lockett?
Timmy Watson was nearly the equivalent player to Cousins. Same type. And he struggled after a while out of the game in the early 1990s.
Don't just think because someone was once able to perform, they will again in their 30s on a regular basis.
But again, I hear the alternative arguments. Just don't necessary agree.
How many successful comebacks have there been from a retirement?
Stewart Dew is the only recent success and he hasn't done it easy. Lockett?
Timmy Watson was nearly the equivalent player to Cousins. Same type. And he struggled after a while out of the game in the early 1990s.
Don't just think because someone was once able to perform, they will again in their 30s on a regular basis.
But again, I hear the alternative arguments. Just don't necessary agree.
Poster formerly known as SENsaintsational. More wisdom. More knowledge. Less name.
-
Legendary
- Club Player
- Posts: 1900
- Joined: Mon 04 Aug 2008 11:35am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 56 times
Cousins was one of the fittest players ever to play the game, so his physical condition is going to be better than a lot of blokes who have attempted to "come back".
Paul Salmon made a relatively successful comeback with the Bombers in 2002 ... it can be done. Stewart Dew has been more than successful.
The thing that can never ever be questioned is Cousin's work ethic. He is addicted to training and fitness and will do everything in his power to get back on the park physically.
It's not his physical condition for football, or his ability, that should be in question.
Paul Salmon made a relatively successful comeback with the Bombers in 2002 ... it can be done. Stewart Dew has been more than successful.
The thing that can never ever be questioned is Cousin's work ethic. He is addicted to training and fitness and will do everything in his power to get back on the park physically.
It's not his physical condition for football, or his ability, that should be in question.
-
JeffDunne
Is it really worth the distraction?
Ultimately it's a judgement call that's impossible to second guess unless you have access to all the information the decision will be based on.
To me the downside is the added attention it brings.
Other than that I can't see how it costs us unless he's an absolute locker-room cancer. I haven't seen/heard anything to suggest that's the case.
I'm happy to leave this call up to the people there to make them.
Like I said I reckon it's impossible to second guess the decision unless you know all the facts.
Ultimately it's a judgement call that's impossible to second guess unless you have access to all the information the decision will be based on.
To me the downside is the added attention it brings.
Other than that I can't see how it costs us unless he's an absolute locker-room cancer. I haven't seen/heard anything to suggest that's the case.
I'm happy to leave this call up to the people there to make them.
Like I said I reckon it's impossible to second guess the decision unless you know all the facts.
-
Saints Premiers 2008
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4335
- Joined: Thu 27 Oct 2005 11:21pm
- Location: Brisbane
thanks dude, taken on board....manJeffDunne wrote:I couldn't get "into" your reply because it was complete nonsense laced with insults.
Now you're crying like a toddler beacuse I made a fairly tongue-in-check reply?
Seriously dude . . . your username doesn't indicate you're clueless, but the crap you post to the right of it certainly does.
Here's another word for you to look up . . . s-a-r-c-a-s-m.
Once you've got a grip on that, go back and read my post again.
you posts talk of explaining to players that we are going to go all out for a shot at a flag...
yep...and they havent been doing it all this time...just waiting for someone to tell them that this is now what they are doing
going all out...nnnnnnnnn....no wait for it.....NOW!
"It's a work in progress," Lyon said.
-
skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 17024
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3645 times
- Been thanked: 2916 times
i don't see how ur post is relevant but yeah you missed LovettMr Magic wrote:andralphysaints35 wrote:Yeah, lets do everything we can to get Benno and O keefe
Seaby
and
Warnock
and
Harris
and
McIntosh
and
Ray
and
Jones
and
Schultz
and
Prismall
and
Boyle
and
Taylor
and
Varcoe
and
Green
and
Jamar
Have I missed any?
But do we have enough drafte picks and/or players to delist to accomodat all these future Saints champions?
-
Animal Enclosure
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2364
- Joined: Mon 04 Apr 2005 2:37pm
- Location: Saints Footy Central
How did he go in those 7 games of footy?- Outstanding... it was like he had never missed a game.SENsaintsational wrote:In that QF how did he go? Hamstring. 2nd hamstring in two months. Played 7 games that year. So effectively, 7 games in two seasons.Animal Enclosure wrote:I'm not sure where the 'Cousins hasn't played for 18 months' comes from.
He played in the semi-final in 2007. If he plays Round 1 2009 he would have missed ONE season (just like many blokes who do their knee do). If you are counting off seasons now then you would have to say every player is a risk as they haven't played a game for 6 months!
His strength has always been is unbelievable fitness & was always though to be the kind of bloke who could play deep into his 30's.
If he can play 2 seasons in the middle he could always spend a season or two on a HFF too.
His addiction is the only (and it is a HUGE factor) question mark over the bloke's ability to play.
Last game Sept 2007 to March 2009 = 18mths or potentially 7 games of football since Sept 2006....7 games in 30 months.
His fitness is the HUGE factor, not his addiction. He proved before he could play good football with the addiction.
How many hammys did he do in 2007? His comeback was delayed by a strain then he tore it in the semi going flat out when the Eagles midfield was decimated.
Why did he only play 7 games in 2007? Club ban due to missing training (amongst other things)
How many blokes picked up in the PSD actually make much difference? It's a bit hit & miss.
If we spend all our picks in the ND on kids will we be mortgaging the future if Cousins is landed in the PSD? IMO no... we actually lose significant experience & our average age falls considerably with no Banger & G Train
Is he worth the risk of a spot on the list, unspecified wages and a selection in the PSD?
You betcha IMO.
-
Mr Magic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12792
- Joined: Fri 04 May 2007 9:38am
- Has thanked: 802 times
- Been thanked: 428 times
My apologies for missing him.skeptic wrote:i don't see how ur post is relevant but yeah you missed LovettMr Magic wrote:andralphysaints35 wrote:Yeah, lets do everything we can to get Benno and O keefe
Seaby
and
Warnock
and
Harris
and
McIntosh
and
Ray
and
Jones
and
Schultz
and
Prismall
and
Boyle
and
Taylor
and
Varcoe
and
Green
and
Jamar
Have I missed any?
But do we have enough drafte picks and/or players to delist to accomodat all these future Saints champions?
Relevance?
Well I was just listing all the players members of this forum have supported us taking since the season finished.
I hadn't realized thare were so many deficiencies in our list that could be resolved by taking these great cast-offs from other Clubs.
I suppose it's my way of stating that just because a Club wants to get rid of a player doesn't necessarily make him a priority for us to get.
Yes it's a wonderful way to fill in time during the 'off-season' but seriously some posters need to get a grip on reality in teh way they throw some names up as if they are a panacaea for all our ills.
FFS, Warnock has played 15 minutes of football in 3 years and is being spoken of in Cox-like terms.
Simon Taylor couldn't make Hawthorn's team in any final - replaced by an 8 year old Renouf
Other than O'Keefe who apparently wants to leave Sydney and has put a price on his head equivalent to xome countries national debt, all teh names are for GOP's at best or players that Clubs are trying to offload because they cannot help them.
WHy do we think they are going to magically assist us.
I'd be interested in deals like we did last year with the Swans and Geelong where good players were off-loaded because their original CLubs were feeling salary cap pains.
-
RedWhiteBlack
- Club Player
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Thu 03 Jul 2008 4:27pm
- Location: Melbourne
-
RedWhiteBlack
- Club Player
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Thu 03 Jul 2008 4:27pm
- Location: Melbourne
I agree about the names you listed but to say the players we got last year are good players and all the ones you listed are GOPs apart from ROK isnt really right. For a start McIntosh if fit again is so much better than King it isnt an arguement. Gardiner isnt even a GOP. Dempster is a GOP and Schneider could be a good player but was a GOP this season.Mr Magic wrote:My apologies for missing him.skeptic wrote:i don't see how ur post is relevant but yeah you missed LovettMr Magic wrote:andralphysaints35 wrote:Yeah, lets do everything we can to get Benno and O keefe
Seaby
and
Warnock
and
Harris
and
McIntosh
and
Ray
and
Jones
and
Schultz
and
Prismall
and
Boyle
and
Taylor
and
Varcoe
and
Green
and
Jamar
Have I missed any?
But do we have enough drafte picks and/or players to delist to accomodat all these future Saints champions?
Relevance?
Well I was just listing all the players members of this forum have supported us taking since the season finished.
I hadn't realized thare were so many deficiencies in our list that could be resolved by taking these great cast-offs from other Clubs.
I suppose it's my way of stating that just because a Club wants to get rid of a player doesn't necessarily make him a priority for us to get.
Yes it's a wonderful way to fill in time during the 'off-season' but seriously some posters need to get a grip on reality in teh way they throw some names up as if they are a panacaea for all our ills.
FFS, Warnock has played 15 minutes of football in 3 years and is being spoken of in Cox-like terms.
Simon Taylor couldn't make Hawthorn's team in any final - replaced by an 8 year old Renouf
Other than O'Keefe who apparently wants to leave Sydney and has put a price on his head equivalent to xome countries national debt, all teh names are for GOP's at best or players that Clubs are trying to offload because they cannot help them.
WHy do we think they are going to magically assist us.
I'd be interested in deals like we did last year with the Swans and Geelong where good players were off-loaded because their original CLubs were feeling salary cap pains.
-
n1ck
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9871
- Joined: Sun 08 Aug 2004 2:28am
- Location: Clarinda
- Has thanked: 78 times
- Been thanked: 91 times
http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/ben-the ... ml?page=-1
Ben the sinner to be discussed by the Saints
Tim Clarke
October 9, 2008 - 12:09PM
Ben Cousins' football future is to be discussed at St Kilda.
St Kilda's board will next week discuss the possibility of recruiting Ben Cousins - but ex-Collingwood skipper Nathan Buckley says he believes the banned Brownlow medallist poses too great a draft risk.
With the AFL Commission has its own meeting about the still-banned former spiritual leader of West Coast, Saints' board member Nathan Burke admitted on Melbourne radio this morning Cousins was to be a topic at their board meeting next week
But Buckley, who retired last year after becoming the Magpies' longest serving captain, said if it was up to him the club would not take a punt on Cousins.
"No, (he's a) little bit too old,'' Buckley told Melbourne radio station 3AW.
"He's probably got one or two good seasons left in him and that's if he comes back cherry ripe, because I know how quickly the game has changed in recent years.
"He's missed a lot of football and that's not to mention the issues that you're going to have or you may have with him personally.
"I think if he does become available to a club he'll be in good nick because the AFL will have ticked him off ... but on top of that it will still be risk, a football risk to a footy club because of his age.''
Despite Buckley's comments, Collingwood is still very much in the frame, Brisbane is also a possibility, and after Cousins was spotted in Melbourne with St Kilda stars last month Burke said today they were watching with interest the progress of Cousins' dialogue with the AFL.
"We're obviously across the discussions that are taking place. We know that they've [the AFL] spoken to Ben a number of times, but we do have to wait and find out exactly what the AFL are going to do," Burke told SEN radio.
"They haven't made up their minds just yet so that may pre-empt everything that we've got in place.
"We've got a board meeting next Thursday night and I dare say it may come up as a topic there. The thing that is in our favour, obviously, is that the pre-season draft doesn't take place until December this year, so there's a lot of water to go under the bridge between now and then - a lot of checks, a lot of [rubber] stamping by the AFL.
"We'll just go through that process and see what comes out at the end of it, but I'm sure it will be discussed next Thursday night."
The AFL Commission is understood to have Cousins on the agenda for its meeting on Monday, with a report from football operations manager Adrian Anderson on the protocols to be established around Cousins.
The next meeting of the AFL commission on November 17 and 18 is then likely to evaluate the results of the testing, interviews, medical and psychological reports carried out in the last months, before deciding whether the former champion can resume his career.
Burke said any club considering Cousins could face complications if special conditions were applied to the controversial former Eagles star - but they could also apply to any mature age player.
"Ben's just one of the slight anomalies in that system," he said.
"The other anomaly is that if we actually trade for a player and they come across, we don't actually know that they've got potentially two strikes until they get here and one more strike and that player is out and we lose our investment entirely.
"You can understand that that's a frustration for the clubs. The AFL says that for confidentiality reasons we can't go broadcasting who has got two strikes because that will prevent people from being drafted and there's a chance it will leak out.
"We do have to take that into account because obviously if you do get a player like Ben and the AFL say 'well he's got his [two] strikes, one more and he's out' what does that do with our investment in him as a player?
"That's where the homework and the due diligence around his mental state and his state of health at the time will come into play. Obviously we have to do an enormous amount of checks to make sure that we were confident that the third strike won't come into play."
Ben the sinner to be discussed by the Saints
Tim Clarke
October 9, 2008 - 12:09PM
Ben Cousins' football future is to be discussed at St Kilda.
St Kilda's board will next week discuss the possibility of recruiting Ben Cousins - but ex-Collingwood skipper Nathan Buckley says he believes the banned Brownlow medallist poses too great a draft risk.
With the AFL Commission has its own meeting about the still-banned former spiritual leader of West Coast, Saints' board member Nathan Burke admitted on Melbourne radio this morning Cousins was to be a topic at their board meeting next week
But Buckley, who retired last year after becoming the Magpies' longest serving captain, said if it was up to him the club would not take a punt on Cousins.
"No, (he's a) little bit too old,'' Buckley told Melbourne radio station 3AW.
"He's probably got one or two good seasons left in him and that's if he comes back cherry ripe, because I know how quickly the game has changed in recent years.
"He's missed a lot of football and that's not to mention the issues that you're going to have or you may have with him personally.
"I think if he does become available to a club he'll be in good nick because the AFL will have ticked him off ... but on top of that it will still be risk, a football risk to a footy club because of his age.''
Despite Buckley's comments, Collingwood is still very much in the frame, Brisbane is also a possibility, and after Cousins was spotted in Melbourne with St Kilda stars last month Burke said today they were watching with interest the progress of Cousins' dialogue with the AFL.
"We're obviously across the discussions that are taking place. We know that they've [the AFL] spoken to Ben a number of times, but we do have to wait and find out exactly what the AFL are going to do," Burke told SEN radio.
"They haven't made up their minds just yet so that may pre-empt everything that we've got in place.
"We've got a board meeting next Thursday night and I dare say it may come up as a topic there. The thing that is in our favour, obviously, is that the pre-season draft doesn't take place until December this year, so there's a lot of water to go under the bridge between now and then - a lot of checks, a lot of [rubber] stamping by the AFL.
"We'll just go through that process and see what comes out at the end of it, but I'm sure it will be discussed next Thursday night."
The AFL Commission is understood to have Cousins on the agenda for its meeting on Monday, with a report from football operations manager Adrian Anderson on the protocols to be established around Cousins.
The next meeting of the AFL commission on November 17 and 18 is then likely to evaluate the results of the testing, interviews, medical and psychological reports carried out in the last months, before deciding whether the former champion can resume his career.
Burke said any club considering Cousins could face complications if special conditions were applied to the controversial former Eagles star - but they could also apply to any mature age player.
"Ben's just one of the slight anomalies in that system," he said.
"The other anomaly is that if we actually trade for a player and they come across, we don't actually know that they've got potentially two strikes until they get here and one more strike and that player is out and we lose our investment entirely.
"You can understand that that's a frustration for the clubs. The AFL says that for confidentiality reasons we can't go broadcasting who has got two strikes because that will prevent people from being drafted and there's a chance it will leak out.
"We do have to take that into account because obviously if you do get a player like Ben and the AFL say 'well he's got his [two] strikes, one more and he's out' what does that do with our investment in him as a player?
"That's where the homework and the due diligence around his mental state and his state of health at the time will come into play. Obviously we have to do an enormous amount of checks to make sure that we were confident that the third strike won't come into play."
Last edited by n1ck on Thu 09 Oct 2008 3:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
JeffDunne
