Saints to push Dogs for Cordy

[Saints94]

he was touted as a top 5 pick, is athletic and young. Worse situation is the dogs get him for pick 14. Best situation is we get a really highly rated 200+ cm ruckman to work in tandum with mcenvoy. This would open up the option of trading kosi for ray + pick 14. Make it happen saints

So who rucks next year? Who plays forward? McEvoy can't win a hitout in the VFL let alone AFL. Allen is still just an average VFL forward and did nothing in his senior games. Cordy would be four years away.

He needs muscle in him

[Solar]

good move

he was touted as a top 5 pick, is athletic and young. Worse situation is the dogs get him for pick 14. Best situation is we get a really highly rated 200+ cm ruckman to work in tandum with mcenvoy. This would open up the option of trading kosi for ray + pick 14. Make it happen saints

Oh no! Sack the draft watchers.......

We might get a top 5 pick for pick 13. What poor sense that is...... not.

Look at the Brions, despite losing a number of gun mids over the last 4 years, they picked up Cameron Wood at 18 in the 2004 draft. Then picked up Leuenberger at 4 in the 2006 draft. Two ruckmen with their first picks within the space of 3 years. A waste?

NO! In 2007 they traded Wood to Collingwood....... for pick 14 (an improvement of 4 spots in a supposedly gun draft!) which they they used to pick up Travis Johnstone.

The important thing is not what type of player you pick up in the draft but whether or not who you pick up turns out to be a gun or not.

Having said that, I do favour going for potential gun mids over potential gun ruckmen as a general rule, but if the odds are stacked heavily in your favour as they may be here.... well ok, go for it.

agreed

if we had finished say 8th and had a top 10 pick then we would not even think of bidding for him. But to get cordy with 13 would be a huge get. Most people agree that you draft the best player avaliable. Then you trade to fix up the holes in your squad.

In addition to your lions example have a look at ports great drafting. They pick the best, and if that meant they ended up having 5 ruckman then they would use them as tradable commodities. They drafted the best ruckman from 2004 in brooks, held onto him, found stkilda who really wanted a athletic ruck. Got some good draft picks which ended up netting some impressive midfielders.

In the end of the day all it will mean is that the dogs get him for pick 14. Thats a win for the other 15 clubs

[Richter]

So who rucks next year? Who plays forward? McEvoy can't win a hitout in the VFL let alone AFL. Allen is still just an average VFL forward and did nothing in his senior games. Cordy would be four years away.

Msg we both know that Kosi won't be traded.... unless we get some sort of mega-deal, which frankly is not going to occur.

I'd be interested to know your opinion on going for this Cordy kid with our first pick though.

As I see it.....

Rucks for next year - King, Kosi

Back-up rucks - Rix, McEvoy, Blake

Retired - Gardiner

Developing - rookie, pick in ND (Cordy with 1st pick/A.N. Other with other pick)

[Mr Magic]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

[plugger66]

Only a couple of people on here have any real clue about how good some of these kids are. Unless you have seen them all play of which 99% on here would not of i dont know how we would know how good these kids are. Lets let the guys at our club who have seen them all play pick the player that suits the club best.

Feel free to post if you have seen even half the kids play at least 2 games.

[Saints94]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

So even if we have pick 13 and they have 14 we can't draft him?

[plugger66]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

So even if we have pick 13 and they have 14 we can't draft him?

That is what he said.

[True Blue Sainter]

he was touted as a top 5 pick, is athletic and young. Worse situation is the dogs get him for pick 14. Best situation is we get a really highly rated 200+ cm ruckman to work in tandum with mcenvoy. This would open up the option of trading kosi for ray + pick 14. Make it happen saints

So who rucks next year? Who plays forward? McEvoy can't win a hitout in the VFL let alone AFL. Allen is still just an average VFL forward and did nothing in his senior games. Cordy would be four years away.

Good point MSG. That was the thing that worried me when we drafted McEvoy last year - we had recruited him as a ruckman, although he had spent the majority of his junior career playing as a key forward...

[Mr Magic]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

So even if we have pick 13 and they have 14 we can't draft him?

Yes, we cannot draft him with Pick 13 if WB nominate him as a Father/Son pick and use their first pick in the National Draft. That's the new rule.
If a Club nominates someone as Father/Son and agrees to use their first pick, then that player is taken by that CLub with that pick. No other Club can take him with an earlier pick.

If teh Club who nominates him for Father/Son decides it doesn't want to use its first pick on him, then the Saints (for example) can declare that we would use pick #13 on him and we would get him. Other Clubs are allowed to 'bid' for him by nominating their 'pick' and the Club who nominates the 'lowest pick' would take him (provided that WB decide not to use their first pick).

[Saints94]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

So even if we have pick 13 and they have 14 we can't draft him?

Yes, we cannot draft him with Pick 13 if WB nominate him as a Father/Son pick and use their first pick in the National Draft. That's the new rule.
If a Club nominates someone as Father/Son and agrees to use their first pick, then that player is taken by that CLub with that pick. No other Club can take him with an earlier pick.

If teh Club who nominates him for Father/Son decides it doesn't want to use its first pick on him, then the Saints (for example) can declare that we would use pick #13 on him and we would get him. Other Clubs are allowed to 'bid' for him by nominating their 'pick' and the Club who nominates the 'lowest pick' would take him (provided that WB decide not to use their first pick).

So why do we all think that the Dogs won't nominate him for Father-son?

[Mr Magic]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

So even if we have pick 13 and they have 14 we can't draft him?

Yes, we cannot draft him with Pick 13 if WB nominate him as a Father/Son pick and use their first pick in the National Draft. That's the new rule.
If a Club nominates someone as Father/Son and agrees to use their first pick, then that player is taken by that CLub with that pick. No other Club can take him with an earlier pick.

If teh Club who nominates him for Father/Son decides it doesn't want to use its first pick on him, then the Saints (for example) can declare that we would use pick #13 on him and we would get him. Other Clubs are allowed to 'bid' for him by nominating their 'pick' and the Club who nominates the 'lowest pick' would take him (provided that WB decide not to use their first pick).

So why do we all think that the Dogs won't nominate him for Father-son?

Homey,
Let me lay this out for you.

It's not enough for the Bulldogs to nominate him as a Father/Son pick.
If any other Club, other than Geelong and Hawthorn whose first pick is after Buldog's first pick, declares they will use their first pick on Cordy, then the only way Bulldogs can take him as a Father/Son pick is to use their first round pick (#14).

By the Saints stating (intimating) that they will use their Pick #13 to take him it forces Bulldogs to use their own Pick #14 or else lose him.

[chook23]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

So even if we have pick 13 and they have 14 we can't draft him?

Yes, we cannot draft him with Pick 13 if WB nominate him as a Father/Son pick and use their first pick in the National Draft. That's the new rule.
If a Club nominates someone as Father/Son and agrees to use their first pick, then that player is taken by that CLub with that pick. No other Club can take him with an earlier pick.

If teh Club who nominates him for Father/Son decides it doesn't want to use its first pick on him, then the Saints (for example) can declare that we would use pick #13 on him and we would get him. Other Clubs are allowed to 'bid' for him by nominating their 'pick' and the Club who nominates the 'lowest pick' would take him (provided that WB decide not to use their first pick).

So why do we all think that the Dogs won't nominate him for Father-son?

Homey,
Let me lay this out for you.

It's not enough for the Bulldogs to nominate him as a Father/Son pick.
If any other Club, other than Geelong and Hawthorn whose first pick is after Buldog's first pick, declares they will use their first pick on Cordy, then the only way Bulldogs can take him as a Father/Son pick is to use their first round pick (#14).

By the Saints stating (intimating) that they will use their Pick #13 to take him it forces Bulldogs to use their own Pick #14 or else lose him.

if no other club indicates they will pick cordy in first round
Dogs can get him with their 2nd pick (32?)

[bigcarl]

Only a couple of people on here have any real clue about how good some of these kids are. Unless you have seen them all play of which 99% on here would not of i dont know how we would know how good these kids are. Lets let the guys at our club who have seen them all play pick the player that suits the club best.

Feel free to post if you have seen even half the kids play at least 2 games.

fair point. if we go for him i hope it is because he is the best available FOOTBALLER, not BECAUSE he is a ruckman.

[Moccha]

he was touted as a top 5 pick, is athletic and young. Worse situation is the dogs get him for pick 14. Best situation is we get a really highly rated 200+ cm ruckman to work in tandum with mcenvoy. This would open up the option of trading kosi for ray + pick 14. Make it happen saints

So who rucks next year? Who plays forward? McEvoy can't win a hitout in the VFL let alone AFL. Allen is still just an average VFL forward and did nothing in his senior games. Cordy would be four years away.

He needs muscle in him

Get Con Gorozidis to train him up

[Moccha]

Only a couple of people on here have any real clue about how good some of these kids are. Unless you have seen them all play of which 99% on here would not of i dont know how we would know how good these kids are. Lets let the guys at our club who have seen them all play pick the player that suits the club best.

Feel free to post if you have seen even half the kids play at least 2 games.

fair point. if we go for him i hope it is because he is the best available player, not BECAUSE he is a ruckman.

But what about the other half?

[SaintDippa]

Agree with Plugger66 (gee I wish I knew how to produce those black boxes).

You would like to think that:

a) The club has a dossier on every TAC Cup player and a commentry on every game they have played.

b) Lyon is a football man and understands what is required to win a premiership (including teaching goal kicking skills).


Also, saw Kerr and his manager in Collins Place food court last Friday at 16:00, which would have been after his manager met with Nisbett. Kerr was eating what looked like a salad wrap washed down with a Coke and manager was sipping a Peroni. Manager has 4 sheets of paper containing the discussion items. Kerr did not seem pleased (manifested with finger pointing gesticulations) with some of the items.

[Animal Enclosure]

he was touted as a top 5 pick, is athletic and young. Worse situation is the dogs get him for pick 14. Best situation is we get a really highly rated 200+ cm ruckman to work in tandum with mcenvoy. This would open up the option of trading kosi for ray + pick 14. Make it happen saints

So who rucks next year? Who plays forward? McEvoy can't win a hitout in the VFL let alone AFL. Allen is still just an average VFL forward and did nothing in his senior games. Cordy would be four years away.

Good point MSG. That was the thing that worried me when we drafted McEvoy last year - we had recruited him as a ruckman, although he had spent the majority of his junior career playing as a key forward...

No he didn't.

He was played as a key forward at the Bushrangers last year due to the emergence of Dawson Simpson (who the Cats drafted). He still spent some time in the ruck but was AA CHF in 2007.

He did play senior footy at Dederang-Mt Beauty on a wing though!

He's similar to Kosi in that he is a ruckman that can play forward although he's probably a better 'pure' footballer than Kosi. He can take a big contested mark & is a beautiful kick. Recruiters were impressed last year with how well he reads the play, which makes up for a not being a really quick ruckman.

[Armoooo]

If we pinch Cordy at the Father/Son selecting table Friday does that mean th value of Kosi to the Dogs is increased significantly during trade week? I smell a rat (and a very cunning plan)...

Very interesting thought, The dogs are also crying out for a tall damaging forward, very interesting indeed...

[Armoooo]

face facts guys. our ruck stocks are non existent.

For "non existent", ruckmen make up a significant portion of our playing and rookie lists. Keep in mind that 2 ruckmen in a team of 22 is 9% of the match day team.

Main (16%)

King
Koschitzke
Rix
Gardiner
McEvoy
Blake*

Rookie (28%)

Van Rheenen
Haretuku*

Scholarship

McGrath (due to be drafted this draft)

*plays other positions primarily, but can and has played in the ruck.

King only has another 2 years tops...
Koschitzke is just no good in the ruck, and may not be there next year...
Rix is not AFL quality, will be delisted...
Gardiner is gawwwn from most reports...
McEvoy is a promising young ruckman but IMO he has looked to have more potential up front...
Blake is not a ruckman, he has found his position in the backline, however he could have a go in the ruck if we were absolutely desperate...

Van Rheenan is probably gone, if not he is too much of a gamble to rely upon...
Haretuku, can't get a game in the VFL seniors yet, is a long way off, and he hasn't even settled upon a position yet...

McGrath, Hasn't even been drafted yet, still a long long long way off...

So our real ruck stocks are:
King
Kosczhitke
McEvoy and as a last resort
Blake

With future stocks of:
Haretuku
Mcgrath


IMO our ruck stocks are far from settled, in 3 years time King and Blake will most likely be gone, Kosi wont be any better than he is now and we will have to hope that Haretuku or McGrath have stepped up...

Another ruckman would be very helpful, that way we could develop McEvoy as a forward who can spend time in the ruck...

[Saints94]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

So even if we have pick 13 and they have 14 we can't draft him?

Yes, we cannot draft him with Pick 13 if WB nominate him as a Father/Son pick and use their first pick in the National Draft. That's the new rule.
If a Club nominates someone as Father/Son and agrees to use their first pick, then that player is taken by that CLub with that pick. No other Club can take him with an earlier pick.

If teh Club who nominates him for Father/Son decides it doesn't want to use its first pick on him, then the Saints (for example) can declare that we would use pick #13 on him and we would get him. Other Clubs are allowed to 'bid' for him by nominating their 'pick' and the Club who nominates the 'lowest pick' would take him (provided that WB decide not to use their first pick).

So why do we all think that the Dogs won't nominate him for Father-son?

Homey,
Let me lay this out for you.

It's not enough for the Bulldogs to nominate him as a Father/Son pick.
If any other Club, other than Geelong and Hawthorn whose first pick is after Buldog's first pick, declares they will use their first pick on Cordy, then the only way Bulldogs can take him as a Father/Son pick is to use their first round pick (#14).

By the Saints stating (intimating) that they will use their Pick #13 to take him it forces Bulldogs to use their own Pick #14 or else lose him.

Thank you, you should have just said that in the first place

[st.byron]

King only has another 2 years tops...
Koschitzke is just no good in the ruck, and may not be there next year...
Rix is not AFL quality, will be delisted...
Gardiner is gawwwn from most reports...
McEvoy is a promising young ruckman but IMO he has looked to have more potential up front...
Blake is not a ruckman, he has found his position in the backline, however he could have a go in the ruck if we were absolutely desperate...

Van Rheenan is probably gone, if not he is too much of a gamble to rely upon...
Haretuku, can't get a game in the VFL seniors yet, is a long way off, and he hasn't even settled upon a position yet...

McGrath, Hasn't even been drafted yet, still a long long long way off...

So our real ruck stocks are:
King
Kosczhitke
McEvoy and as a last resort
Blake

With future stocks of:
Haretuku
Mcgrath


IMO our ruck stocks are far from settled, in 3 years time King and Blake will most likely be gone, Kosi wont be any better than he is now and we will have to hope that Haretuku or McGrath have stepped up...

Another ruckman would be very helpful, that way we could develop McEvoy as a forward who can spend time in the ruck...

reckon you're on the money Armoo, except I think Rix will be retained as a depth ruck option. Discounting Gardiner because it seems he's likely to retire and if he doesn't he's played bugger all senior footy in four years, we only have King, Kosi, Blake as a pinch hitter and McEvoy. Reckon Rix will be kept in case King / Kosi are injured. We do need another ruckman coming through for sure.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

If we pinch Cordy at the Father/Son selecting table Friday does that mean th value of Kosi to the Dogs is increased significantly during trade week? I smell a rat (and a very cunning plan)...

Very interesting thought, The dogs are also crying out for a tall damaging forward, very interesting indeed...

agree we getting cordy would push kosi's trade value up and maybe the dogs pay over the real value...they pay on potential not real

kosi is tall...but when has he been damaging for more than half a minute out of 120 a game???

that would make it...maybe a contested mark or two a game...hmmm very damaging...

[Mr Magic]

So if the dogs nominate him for Father-son does that mean we can't draft him before the dogs?

Correct
If the Bulldogs nominate him as Father/Son and use their first pick in the Draft, than no other Club can take him.

So even if we have pick 13 and they have 14 we can't draft him?

Yes, we cannot draft him with Pick 13 if WB nominate him as a Father/Son pick and use their first pick in the National Draft. That's the new rule.
If a Club nominates someone as Father/Son and agrees to use their first pick, then that player is taken by that CLub with that pick. No other Club can take him with an earlier pick.

If teh Club who nominates him for Father/Son decides it doesn't want to use its first pick on him, then the Saints (for example) can declare that we would use pick #13 on him and we would get him. Other Clubs are allowed to 'bid' for him by nominating their 'pick' and the Club who nominates the 'lowest pick' would take him (provided that WB decide not to use their first pick).

So why do we all think that the Dogs won't nominate him for Father-son?

Homey,
Let me lay this out for you.

It's not enough for the Bulldogs to nominate him as a Father/Son pick.
If any other Club, other than Geelong and Hawthorn whose first pick is after Buldog's first pick, declares they will use their first pick on Cordy, then the only way Bulldogs can take him as a Father/Son pick is to use their first round pick (#14).

By the Saints stating (intimating) that they will use their Pick #13 to take him it forces Bulldogs to use their own Pick #14 or else lose him.

Thank you, you should have just said that in the first place

It's pretty much all there in the op.

[joffaboy]

Sorry if this has been asked in the thread (haven't read the whole thing).

If we nominate @ #14 and the Doggies dont nominate him with their pick, can any other team with a lowere pick take him before us?

I would assume that anyone with a pick less than #14 could take him, including the Bulldogs if they have a change of heart. Is this correct?

[MCG-Unit]

......

King only has another 2 years tops...
Koschitzke is just no good in the ruck, and may not be there next year...
Rix is not AFL quality, will be delisted...
Gardiner is gawwwn from most reports...
McEvoy is a promising young ruckman but IMO he has looked to have more potential up front...
Blake is not a ruckman, he has found his position in the backline, however he could have a go in the ruck if we were absolutely desperate...

Van Rheenan is probably gone, if not he is too much of a gamble to rely upon...
Haretuku, can't get a game in the VFL seniors yet, is a long way off, and he hasn't even settled upon a position yet...

McGrath, Hasn't even been drafted yet, still a long long long way off...

So our real ruck stocks are:
King
Kosczhitke
McEvoy and as a last resort
Blake

With future stocks of:
Haretuku
Mcgrath


IMO our ruck stocks are far from settled, in 3 years time King and Blake will most likely be gone, Kosi wont be any better than he is now and we will have to hope that Haretuku or McGrath have stepped up...

Another ruckman would be very helpful, that way we could develop McEvoy as a forward who can spend time in the ruck...

So do you think they should give up pick 13 for Cordy, who reportedly is 202 cm and 77kg - and wait 3 years for him to develop, he needs to put on 20 kg he is also a long way off IMO