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ralphysaints35 wrote:we wont trade kosi because 1 . he is 6 foot 6 massive build. you dont get them everywhere.
2. he is dedicated to stkilda. jst like dal, no to neither.
Don't bother about these buffoons ralphy, your common sense logic won't stop the threads coming....
Kosi is a GOP - but he's the equivalent of 2 GOPs as his inclusion means that you don't have to play 2 out and out ruckmen. He's isn't a star ruckman but how many rucks can play up front as well as Kosi can?
agree - but since we are paying him as an elite player - he needs a pay cut or to be traded to provide quad pay balance.
keep him - just cut his pay 20-30%
so first you want to trade him coz he's next to useless in your opnion... now you say it's ok to keep a useless player as long as they are paid accordingly??
On that basis, we can keep Rix, Fiora and a few others??
This here is where you lose all cred and respectability. Give it a rest ffs.
well it always comesback to what u get for him.
im saying we should be open to offers.
and for the record id axe rix and fizz - difference is noone would want them. clearly another club would take kosi. so stop simplifying it you flog. my point is to keep an open mind and not put your head in the sand and pretend hes awesome and he going to live up to this fantasy land "potential" . wishful thinking and hoping is no substitute for pragmaticism. im just putting myself in the realist camp. not the dreamers camp.
the dreamers camp reckon kosiis the next simon madden. x clarke is the next peter matera. armitage is the next michael voss. jack steven the next rovert harvey. mat maguire the next jonothan brown etc etc etc its great to dream and be hopeful. but these true blue saints believers wont help win any actual games.
ralphysaints35 wrote:we wont trade kosi because 1 . he is 6 foot 6 massive build. you dont get them everywhere.
2. he is dedicated to stkilda. jst like dal, no to neither.
Don't bother about these buffoons ralphy, your common sense logic won't stop the threads coming....
Kosi is a GOP - but he's the equivalent of 2 GOPs as his inclusion means that you don't have to play 2 out and out ruckmen. He's isn't a star ruckman but how many rucks can play up front as well as Kosi can?
the pro kosi argument seems to be based on 5 points:
1. hes tall
2. hes really tall
3. he actually a pretty big guy
4. hes massive
5. hes tall
Judd - Brownlow Medal, Premiership player, Now leading the Carlton improvement with his distinct abilities. Controls and wins games.
Hodge - Premiership player, Norm Smith Medallist for BOG in a Grand Final. Controls and wins games.
Ball - Injury blighted career. Has lost running and kicking abilities. Not a patch on either Judd or Hodge.
Ball was a No. 2 Draft Pick, and is very much inferior to Judd and Hodge.
So why all the concentration on Koschitzke?
Might as well put 3 duds up for trade, Ball, Koschitzke and Dal Santo.
And Baker who misses most of each season because of lengthy suspensions, then injury when he actually gets onto the field. X played more games, so why the concentration on X, who actually attacks the contest with too much gusto for his own good?
Starved of success, St Kilda supporters resort to "hero worship", not recognising team and the needs of a team.
And they eat their own - which unfortunately includes their premier players.
Frustration, I suppose.
We have to build a side around our best players.
We ARE half a dozen players short of a quality outfit, and those half a dozen do not include Koschitzke, Ball, Dal Santo or X. Clarke.
Con Gorozidis wrote:i think that is my point. no other club would pay him more than us. saints rate him higher than the market. he is getting above market rates based on his position in the draft and false expectations.
he couldnt walk in to another club for more. he is like a ben holland/jade rawlings where he got a contract based on some very good timing/negotiations that he cant possibly live up to. his actul market rate would be a lot less - saints fans are the only ones who rate him. no other club rates him at all.
this is where we differ. u reckon kosi is getting his market worth - i reckon hes getting over his market worth. simple. i put him in the category of gaspar, ben holland, jade rawlings. over-rated. over paid and over here.
You make so many uninformed and sweeping statements I almost don't know where to begin.
You say that no other club would pay him more than us! How much is he getting paid? How much should he be paid? If you know then please back up your statement otherwise stop spinning crap.
The market dictates his market rate! Not you and not me. His actual market rate? I would wager that he is on less then his market rate along with a few of our players.
I assume that your diatribe is fully researched and highly informed as you are claiming your statements as fact and not opinion. I can safely assume that you've spoken to all the other 15 clubs and informed them of Kosi's salary and been told that he wouldn't get that figure at another club.
Your post is uninformed, ignorant and, IMO, inaccurate.
To the top wrote:Judd - Brownlow Medal, Premiership player, Now leading the Carlton improvement with his distinct abilities. Controls and wins games.
Hodge - Premiership player, Norm Smith Medallist for BOG in a Grand Final. Controls and wins games.
Ball - Injury blighted career. Has lost running and kicking abilities. Not a patch on either Judd or Hodge.
Ball was a No. 2 Draft Pick, and is very much inferior to Judd and Hodge.
So why all the concentration on Koschitzke?
Might as well put 3 duds up for trade, Ball, Koschitzke and Dal Santo.
And Baker who misses most of each season because of lengthy suspensions, then injury when he actually gets onto the field. X played more games, so why the concentration on X, who actually attacks the contest with too much gusto for his own good?
Starved of success, St Kilda supporters resort to "hero worship", not recognising team and the needs of a team.
And they eat their own - which unfortunately includes their premier players.
Frustration, I suppose.
We have to build a side around our best players.
We ARE half a dozen players short of a quality outfit, and those half a dozen do not include Koschitzke, Ball, Dal Santo or X. Clarke.
Thats how I see it also - we need another 5 or 6 higher quality than the current bottom 5 or 6 an that takes time. You dont get that while also trading players who fill a structural need (ruck/fwd) or midfield unless the trade is to good to pass up.
Bernard Shakey wrote:Did anyone see the game last Saturday?
Those 2 teams will eat us for years to come, unless we do something about our list.
Kosi has been useless to us for years.
If a suitable offer is made we would be crazy not to accept it.
According to many on this site we have to keep Kosi because he loves St Kilda and is a great bloke and has great potential and will be a superstar.
I've got news for you lot, he may love St Kilda and be a great bloke, but he had great potential (not anymore) and he will not be a superstar.
Kosi has made our top ten once, in his first year (9th for godssake), and that was 8 years ago.
We need another key forward, another ruckman and a centre half back. Kosi is none of these.
He does not have a position to play in our team and therefore should move on, for his benefit and that of the club.
You answered it yourself Bernard, we need another key forward, another ruckman and a centre half back to even begin to replace Kosi....so obviously he's only crime is his versatility?
Bernard Shakey wrote:Did anyone see the game last Saturday?
Those 2 teams will eat us for years to come, unless we do something about our list.
Kosi has been useless to us for years.
If a suitable offer is made we would be crazy not to accept it.
According to many on this site we have to keep Kosi because he loves St Kilda and is a great bloke and has great potential and will be a superstar.
I've got news for you lot, he may love St Kilda and be a great bloke, but he had great potential (not anymore) and he will not be a superstar.
Kosi has made our top ten once, in his first year (9th for godssake), and that was 8 years ago.
We need another key forward, another ruckman and a centre half back. Kosi is none of these.
He does not have a position to play in our team and therefore should move on, for his benefit and that of the club.
You answered it yourself Bernard, we need another key forward, another ruckman and a centre half back to even begin to replace Kosi....so obviously he's only crime is his versatility?
hes neither a ruck (too short at 196cm) or agile enough to be kpp. therefore hes a nothing.
his only crime is not being any good at footy.
yes hes tall. yes he can take a pack mark.
but in modern footy - this doesnt cut it. his performance in the 2 finals against decent opposition speak volumes.
To the top wrote:Judd - Brownlow Medal, Premiership player, Now leading the Carlton improvement with his distinct abilities. Controls and wins games.
Hodge - Premiership player, Norm Smith Medallist for BOG in a Grand Final. Controls and wins games.
Ball - Injury blighted career. Has lost running and kicking abilities. Not a patch on either Judd or Hodge.
Ball was a No. 2 Draft Pick, and is very much inferior to Judd and Hodge.
So why all the concentration on Koschitzke?
Might as well put 3 duds up for trade, Ball, Koschitzke and Dal Santo.
And Baker who misses most of each season because of lengthy suspensions, then injury when he actually gets onto the field. X played more games, so why the concentration on X, who actually attacks the contest with too much gusto for his own good?
Starved of success, St Kilda supporters resort to "hero worship", not recognising team and the needs of a team.
And they eat their own - which unfortunately includes their premier players.
Frustration, I suppose.
We have to build a side around our best players.
We ARE half a dozen players short of a quality outfit, and those half a dozen do not include Koschitzke, Ball, Dal Santo or X. Clarke.
Thats how I see it also - we need another 5 or 6 higher quality than the current bottom 5 or 6 an that takes time. You dont get that while also trading players who fill a structural need (ruck/fwd) or midfield unless the trade is to good to pass up.
he does not fill a structura need.
he can play ruck (too short)
and cant play KP (not agile enough).
hes between positions. not his fault. just the way modern footy is right now. sorry guys. its a cruel game.
IF we can improve our mid-field depth and our attacking abilities including from defence (and I see a fit Maguire as central to this, including because at CHB he speads initially S. Fisher plus he has attacking flair himself) PLUS we can introduce another key forward option (and I do not mean another Milne or Schnieder type but a target forward) to spread the opposition of other sides, ensuring BOTH Riewoldt and Koschitzke get "one out" opportunities, not being double teamed including with a "blocking" player in front of them giving an impression of contesting the mark but actually there to keep them off the contest, and with favourable delivery to their advantage, St Kilda will improve considerably and Koschitzke will be the "star" certain on here opine that he should be.
The problem is we ONLY have Riewoldt and Koschitzke in attack as targets and, to boot, Koschitzke needs to ruck because we only have King (most adequate), M. Gardiner (most adequate but injured from mid-season), Rix (not up to it) and McEvoy (first year player who needs to put on 2 stone at least to graduate to the ruck) plus a Drafted player who will be in the same stage of development as McEvoy.
Let's wait and see if St Kilda can build a quality side around its quality players.
To the top wrote:IF we can improve our mid-field depth and our attacking abilities including from defence (and I see a fit Maguire as central to this, including because at CHB he speads initially S. Fisher plus he has attacking flair himself) PLUS we can introduce another key forward option (and I do not mean another Milne or Schnieder type but a target forward) to spread the opposition of other sides, ensuring BOTH Riewoldt and Koschitzke get "one out" opportunities, not being double teamed including with a "blocking" player in front of them giving an impression of contesting the mark but actually there to keep them off the contest, and with favourable delivery to their advantage, St Kilda will improve considerably and Koschitzke will be the "star" certain on here opine that he should be.
IF we can improve our mid-field depth and our attacking abilities including from defence (and I see a fit Maguire as central to this, including because at CHB he speads initially S. Fisher plus he has attacking flair himself) PLUS we can introduce another key forward option (and I do not mean another Milne or Schnieder type but a target forward) to spread the opposition of other sides, ensuring BOTH Riewoldt and Koschitzke get "one out" opportunities, not being double teamed including with a "blocking" player in front of them giving an impression of contesting the mark but actually there to keep them off the contest, and with favourable delivery to their advantage, St Kilda will improve considerably and Koschitzke will be the "star" certain on here opine that he should be.
The problem is we ONLY have Riewoldt and Koschitzke in attack as targets and, to boot, Koschitzke needs to ruck because we only have King (most adequate), M. Gardiner (most adequate but injured from mid-season), Rix (not up to it) and McEvoy (first year player who needs to put on 2 stone at least to graduate to the ruck) plus a Drafted player who will be in the same stage of development as McEvoy.
Let's wait and see if St Kilda can build a quality side around its quality players.
When has Kosi ever been double teamed?
He doesn't present enough for any opponent to worry about him.
Thats why roo is double and triple teamed, nobody is worried about Kosi.
If we get a half decent trade offer we should take it. If we don't get one, he stays, to frustrate supporters for the ninth year.
IF we can improve our mid-field depth and our attacking abilities including from defence (and I see a fit Maguire as central to this, including because at CHB he speads initially S. Fisher plus he has attacking flair himself) PLUS we can introduce another key forward option (and I do not mean another Milne or Schnieder type but a target forward) to spread the opposition of other sides, ensuring BOTH Riewoldt and Koschitzke get "one out" opportunities, not being double teamed including with a "blocking" player in front of them giving an impression of contesting the mark but actually there to keep them off the contest, and with favourable delivery to their advantage, St Kilda will improve considerably and Koschitzke will be the "star" certain on here opine that he should be.
The problem is we ONLY have Riewoldt and Koschitzke in attack as targets and, to boot, Koschitzke needs to ruck because we only have King (most adequate), M. Gardiner (most adequate but injured from mid-season), Rix (not up to it) and McEvoy (first year player who needs to put on 2 stone at least to graduate to the ruck) plus a Drafted player who will be in the same stage of development as McEvoy.
Let's wait and see if St Kilda can build a quality side around its quality players.
When has Kosi ever been double teamed?
He doesn't present enough for any opponent to worry about him.
Thats why roo is double and triple teamed, nobody is worried about Kosi.
If we get a half decent trade offer we should take it. If we don't get one, he stays, to frustrate supporters for the ninth year.
No offence, but if he is only going to frustrate his supporters, that wouldn't apply to you?
Bernard Shakey wrote:Did anyone see the game last Saturday?
Those 2 teams will eat us for years to come, unless we do something about our list.
Kosi has been useless to us for years.
If a suitable offer is made we would be crazy not to accept it.
According to many on this site we have to keep Kosi because he loves St Kilda and is a great bloke and has great potential and will be a superstar.
I've got news for you lot, he may love St Kilda and be a great bloke, but he had great potential (not anymore) and he will not be a superstar.
Kosi has made our top ten once, in his first year (9th for godssake), and that was 8 years ago.
We need another key forward, another ruckman and a centre half back. Kosi is none of these.
He does not have a position to play in our team and therefore should move on, for his benefit and that of the club.
You answered it yourself Bernard, we need another key forward, another ruckman and a centre half back to even begin to replace Kosi....so obviously he's only crime is his versatility?
Excuse me, but can you read?
Kosi is not a ruckman or key position player. He is not versatile in any definition of the word.
He is a very ordinary player, who should be traded if the right offer eventuates. I realise that he is your 'baby' and therefore all reason is out the window.
Bernard Shakey wrote:Did anyone see the game last Saturday?
Those 2 teams will eat us for years to come, unless we do something about our list.
Kosi has been useless to us for years.
If a suitable offer is made we would be crazy not to accept it.
According to many on this site we have to keep Kosi because he loves St Kilda and is a great bloke and has great potential and will be a superstar.
I've got news for you lot, he may love St Kilda and be a great bloke, but he had great potential (not anymore) and he will not be a superstar.
Kosi has made our top ten once, in his first year (9th for godssake), and that was 8 years ago.
We need another key forward, another ruckman and a centre half back. Kosi is none of these.
He does not have a position to play in our team and therefore should move on, for his benefit and that of the club.
You answered it yourself Bernard, we need another key forward, another ruckman and a centre half back to even begin to replace Kosi....so obviously he's only crime is his versatility?
Excuse me, but can you read?
Kosi is not a ruckman or key position player. He is not versatile in any definition of the word.
He is a very ordinary player, who should be traded if the right offer eventuates. I realise that he is your 'baby' and therefore all reason is out the window.
IF we can improve our mid-field depth and our attacking abilities including from defence (and I see a fit Maguire as central to this, including because at CHB he speads initially S. Fisher plus he has attacking flair himself) PLUS we can introduce another key forward option (and I do not mean another Milne or Schnieder type but a target forward) to spread the opposition of other sides, ensuring BOTH Riewoldt and Koschitzke get "one out" opportunities, not being double teamed including with a "blocking" player in front of them giving an impression of contesting the mark but actually there to keep them off the contest, and with favourable delivery to their advantage, St Kilda will improve considerably and Koschitzke will be the "star" certain on here opine that he should be.
The problem is we ONLY have Riewoldt and Koschitzke in attack as targets and, to boot, Koschitzke needs to ruck because we only have King (most adequate), M. Gardiner (most adequate but injured from mid-season), Rix (not up to it) and McEvoy (first year player who needs to put on 2 stone at least to graduate to the ruck) plus a Drafted player who will be in the same stage of development as McEvoy.
Let's wait and see if St Kilda can build a quality side around its quality players.
dude. time has told. how long should i wait for the "potential"
wishfull thinking and hope are not good commodities on which to run a football team.
If he stays... then all I'd like to see him do isget his muscles ripped and get some aggro into his game. He has the size to intimidate IMO. Play him as a ruck / rover (ok I'm old).
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
