St Kilda Report Card - Sportal.com.au

[makemytime]

St Kilda
01/10/2008 4:19 PM
Paul Gough
Sportal
14 wins, 11 losses before this week - Position: Fourth:

http://sportal.com.au/afl-opinion-displ ... ilda-57808

This year's grade (A-F) C

Positives from this year: The Saints took a significant step forward this year by not only making the finals but finishing in the top four after finishing ninth in 2007 in Ross Lyon's first year as coach. And they also significantly improved their attacking output in 2008 after being criticised for being too defensive last year. After kicking just 1874 points last season, at an average of just 85 points per game, the Saints increased that to 2126 during the home and away season this year or an average of nearly 97 points per game. The decision to recruit former Geelong ruckman Steven King also boosted the big man stocks while ex-Swan Adam Schneider had a fine first year with the club and formed a good partnership with Steven Milne while youngsters David Armitage, Robert Eddy, Jarryn Geary and Clint Jones all showed great promise and skipper Nick Riewoldt had another outstanding season, which should result in him winning a record fifth best and fairest.

Negatives from this year: There is just too big a difference between the Saints' best performances and their worst performances and there is also too big a gap between the club's elite players such as Riewoldt, Lenny Hayes, Sam Fisher, Luke Ball and Leigh Montagna and its bottom six players in its 22. The Saints looked awesome in keeping Adelaide to just six goals in Round 21 and thrashing Essendon by 108 points in Round 22 yet lost to Geelong by nearly ten goals in the qualifying final and they also lost to lowly West Coast in Perth in Round 17 just a week after beating Hawthorn at Telstra Dome. The decision to re-draft retired spearhead Fraser Gehrig was a disaster while Michael Gardiner has also offered little in his two injury-plagued years with the club. Tough tagger Steven Baker also missed most of the year as did Matt Maguire while question marks hang over the progress being made by experienced players such as Xavier and Raphael Clarke, Matthew Ferguson, James Gwilt, Charlie Gardiner and Aaron Fiora while even highly-rated wingman Nick Dal Santo could be trade bait after a disappointing season.
Likely departures: Robert Harvey (retired), Matthew Ferguson, Michael Gardiner, Michael Rix, Aaron Fiora, Brad Howard.

Next year:

Type of Players needed: The Saints simply have to unearth a quality ruckman quickly - whether through or by drafting as many tall hopefuls as they can. With King to turn 30 in November, Gardiner struggling and Michael Rix probably out of chances, the Saints' ruck stocks are very slim. And they could do with another key defender to help the ageing Max Hudghton and another key forward where the disappointing Justin Koschitzke just hasn't been able to provide the brilliant Riewoldt with the support he needs in attack.

Likely improvement (if any) With the loss of the incredible Robert Harvey, who has finally pulled the pin on his amazing 21-year career, the Saints have a huge hole to fill even before next year gets underway. Even at the age of 37, Harvey was still amongst the Saints' best six players this season and he is simply irreplaceable. But on the flip side Maguire will return from the fractured foot that has sidelined him for most of the season while Baker will be over his knee problems but much depends on the progress of the club's younger and middle tier players.

Finals next year? Don't be fooled by this year's fourth-placed finish, the Saints only just scraped into the top eight after winning their last three games and really were not that much better than last year's ninth-placed finish. And with the likes of Richmond, Carlton, Fremantle and Port Adelaide likely to challenge for a top eight berth next year, the Saints will face a tough fight to hold their place in the eight in season 09.





Really hard and unbiased view at our performance and list. Most of it is true but a few parts to argue:
- absolute disregard towards mcevoy, no mention whatsoever. He could be the ruckman we've needed to unearth

- our needed players (according to sportal) are a ruckman and kp defender as well as an extra marking option.... WHAT ABOUT FAST AND HARD AT THE BALL MIDS?!?!?

-if dal santo is to be even considered trade bait (which isn't going to happen because he is a required player), kosi's name is surely to come before dal


this article, i don't take much from it... but gives us an insight to what others think of the current st kilda

[Batnoe]

am amazed we averaged 97 per game

[True Blue Sainter]

Every season every journalist has Fremantle in their predicted final 8, or as a "smokey" for the flag...Do they ever get there? No... Particularly with all their retirees, I find it hard to see where their improvement is going to come from, the youngsters won't gel in a season.

Fair enough column though overall. Finishing fourth was a bit misleading, as it didn't really justify the season we had. In hindsight, I think a lot of us and many in the media overrated our list (many tipped us to challenge for the flag this year). The gulf between the two top teams will still be evident next year, and we are probably in the second rung, with teams like the Dogs, Collingwood, and maybe even the improving Carlton and Richmond...

[Gabba]

In all fairness we deserve better than a C. C is an average mark and we got to 4th position...

Albeit, we were lucky to get there.

[jackal]

Fair assessment but B or B- more accurate rating as 4th and a prelim would have grabbed the Blues or Tigers a similar rating, expectations are irrelevant, results are what you get assessed on.

Our high scoring output would have been increased greatly by round 22 (and actually by playing the Bombers twice). If we had won the lasr game by say 3 or 4 goals then our output would have been around 90 and I'm sure our median (as opposed to mean) score would have been around 75-80 points per game.

We have many needs and priority 1 is a 3rd tall up forward (Maguire maybe?) another defender to replace Max (Miles may surprise here as may Allen). We should clearly be looking at drafting midfielders and if we can get cuz then it will be a bonus.

[Otiman]

while question marks hang over the progress being made by experienced players such as Xavier and Raphael Clarke, Matthew Ferguson, James Gwilt, Charlie Gardiner and Aaron Fiora

Excuse me? Raph, Ferg, Gwilt - Experienced players??

[Otiman]

Fair assessment but B or B- more accurate rating as 4th and a prelim would have grabbed the Blues or Tigers a similar rating, expectations are irrelevant, results are what you get assessed on.

On that basis...

Hawthorn A+
Geelong A
Bulldogs B+
St Kilda B
....

Richmond F
Melbourne F

[bergsone]

Sounds like he has been reading this forum,some right ,some wrong,lots of bulls***

[SaintWodonga]

Seems a fair article. He pointed out the need for a quality ruckman. I reckon we need an injection of speed 1st, and a full forward.. Miss Ya Frase!

[Moccha]

Isn't it Paul Far Gough.

C my arse. Top 4 equates to a B or even B+ u silly knob!

[Bernard Shakey]

Our 4th was the same as 8th, where we could quite easily have finished.

We did nothing to deserve 4th other than beating Collingwood in the semi.

Hawthorn and Geelong A.

Footscray B.

St Kilda, Collingwood, Adelaide, Sydney and North C.

[bigcarl]

they also significantly improved their attacking output in 2008 after being criticised for being too defensive last year. After kicking just 1874 points last season, at an average of just 85 points per game, the Saints increased that to 2126 during the home and away season this year or an average of nearly 97 points per game.[/b

it's a start, but we've got to improve at least as much again offensively to have a chance of matching hawthorn.

the need for a good full forward and another goal-kicking half forward is particularly pressing.

in general, our focus needs to move away from shutting down the opposition and towards getting the ball and making the play ourselves.

[makemytime]

while question marks hang over the progress being made by experienced players such as Xavier and Raphael Clarke, Matthew Ferguson, James Gwilt, Charlie Gardiner and Aaron Fiora

Excuse me? Raph, Ferg, Gwilt - Experienced players??

Technically, they've been at afl level long enuf to be called experienced but in terms of games, no chance.

I'm pretty angry north and sydney both got b or b+ and yet i was sure that we could've beaten both of them

Players needed:
strong marking Full forward/Half forward
Hard running/ hard at the ball midfielders
KP defender


and hopefull mcevoy can turn out to be a ripper!

[mad saint guy]

From that assessment it looks like the author has very little knowledge of the playing list and only saw a few St Kilda games this year. Most of that article is based on statistics and they can be very misleading.

I wouldn't read anything into it, though I agree that a C is fair.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

no idea !!! if freo make the 8 in 2009 ill personally buy a membership to them for 2010 !

[plugger66]

Please do not have opinions on the Saints please that dont suit our supporters.

[Thinline]

Fourth is bloody fourth and a more than fair reflection of where we are at. There was no luck involved.

It's pretty bloody simple...St Kilda took its opportunity and DESERVED fourth spot. Other less willing clubs did not take their chance and missed out. Why? They were not as good as St Kilda this year.

The FACT it wasn't a fluke is evidenced by our good finals win against Collingwood.

Had we beaten West Coast we would have been outright fourth on the ladder, and there'd be no debate.

Now as for Gough's analysis, some good points (even if he is stating the bleeding obvious and passing it off as expert opinion), but his contrariness can't go unchallenged. We lifted our ladder position by five places - a significant step - and our scoring percentage went up by twelve points - a large chunk. That's why there is a BIG difference between last year's ninth and this years fourth. We also played rookies and younger players conistently for the first time in a long time. Further, our fitness has improved considerably. Evidence? Several come from behind wins. All these things are IMO indicative of a club moving forwards.

Yes, we were a long way off two teams that were clearly more consistent and confident for the bulk of the year. Our first final and the prelim highlighted that. Like, der...

But our trajectory is upward. Unlike others - Adelaide, Pies, Port, West Coast, Freo, Bombers - we haven't stalled or gone backwards when after GT's departure and RL's average first year it would have been easy to do. Fact is we are on the hunt.

And unlike many, I see a positive in an inconsistent side finishing fourth. Consistency will come when belief in our RL system increases, and our confidence evolves. We are not far off that. We will rise.

Jesus, I get sick of these hack scribes adhering to stereotypes. St Kilda, perennial loser, sink the slipper in and bark about how crap they are now and will be. It's just ill-informed drivel. For the greater part of this decade and for the latter part of the last we have been a well-performed club. Sure the big prize has eluded us, and (but for the beginning of the this decade) we've pretty much always been there or thereabouts. NEVER EVER MENTIONED! It is almost always negative. But for other clubs, particularly traditional superpowers who have fallen on rough times, it's always a rosy outlook. For example, what did Gough say about Bombers? Let me guess... young and quick? Future bright? Fact is they're young kids are poor performers and/or fickle and relatively imminent departures of Lloyd, Fletcher, Lucas etc are going to leave a much bigger hole than the departure of our No 35. But that won't get said...So too Carlton...Oh what a wonderful midfield they have, they'll say. But hang on. No forwards except for Fev, a leaky and short back six that is never settled and an empty ruck division except for a kid with no tank. Again. No one among the experts says it. It's all 'future so bright I have to where shades' stuff. Rubbish.


Only one answer. Come out next year and win.

COME ON SAINTERS !!!!!!!!!!! FIRE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yltnias]

Forget the Position of Draftees..........

It would be nice to recruit a player that actually does something in their first year and beyond!!!

Some players making an impact in their first year at other clubs this year include -

Rioli for Hawthorn
Taylor for Geelong
Wellingham, Anthony for Collingwood
Kruezer, Armfield for Carlton
Dalziel for Brisbane
Myers for Essendon
Palmer for Fremantle
Urquhart for N Melbourne
Cotchin for Richmond
Bird for Sydney
Wilkes, Masten, Ebert for Westcoast
You would have to go back quite a few years to find a player making an impact in their first year at the Saints.

[Saint Mik]

no idea !!! if freo make the 8 in 2009 ill personally buy a membership to them for 2010 !

Coming out are we st Trav

Next thing you will be buying a purple pair of pants to go with that white skivvy of yours

Go and put on a mighty saints jumper and have a good hard look at yourself in the mirror you fool.

Buy a Freo membership go and wash your mouth out

[spert]

Fourth position is just that, not a gift. We got there by winning enough games, and so what if other teams blew their chances..that's how the competition works.
I think it was a great effort from a team who wern't quite together, and lacked a lot of flair.
A couple more good recruits and some smart trading won't hurt at all, though it is time to get in a grand final and win a bloody flag as being also-rans in losing prelims is obviously not good for the club.

[Solar]

strange wrap up

Refuses to name our first rounder drafted last year in mcenvoy, seen as the second best ruckman in the draft. Then goes on to point out that with harvey retiring there is a hole in our midfield. Somehow he then argues that with the come back of two backman in maguire and baker will help in that area

Howard has been signed for 2 years, quick internet search could have told him that. Fiora is also contracted and thus it wouldbe highly suprising to see him cut.

Plugger66, I'm all for different opinions on our club and players. But according to the ladder and our draft position we finished 4th. Just because they all came out at the start of the season and picked us for the flag should not effect this rating. We were better then 12 other teams. Thats a fact.

Crap article,

[Saint05]

Each to there own. Overall I think a B is more deserved, just inconsistency and bad kicking for goal really did hurt us in some games. To make it to the PF, again, is a credit to the way we played in the 2nd half of the season.

Just another question, I know its off topic but this is how my Outlook for next year IMO, I know its early days yet but based on the past few weeks in the finals and the proper season:

1. Geelong- They can be beaten! Will come back hungrier then ever to make up for 2008

2. Hawthorn- Premiership hangover wont affect them, expect them to be up there. Young list is a gread asset to have in todays game

3. W. Bulldogs- Hard to say, showed signs in the PF against Geelong they can match it with the league leaders

4. Collingwood- Terrible against us in the SF but didnt have a terrible season apart from off field incidents

5. St. Kilda- ??? Anythings possible, we need to be consistent and injury free. Do that we can finish 1st, fail to do that and we will be fighting our spot in the 8 again. If Riewoldt can lead by example like he did in the 2nd half of the season we can be a powerhouse again

6. Adelaide- Tricky, inconsistent in the season and crumbled against the Pies in the first week in the finals. It was a toss up between them and the Swans for me finishing in the 8, so a coin was needed and Adelaide won

7. Carlton- If they dont finish in the Top 8 this year they never will. Must do something with the prized draft picks and star players

8. Brisbane Lions- Been out of finals action for a while but if Voss adds some new changes around the place anythings possible

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9. Richmond

10. Sydney

11. Essendon

12. West Coast

13. North Melbourne

14. Melbourne

15. Fremantle

16. Port Adelaide

[terry smith rules]

Forget the Position of Draftees..........

It would be nice to recruit a player that actually does something in their first year and beyond!!!

Some players making an impact in their first year at other clubs this year include -

Rioli for Hawthorn
Taylor for Geelong
Wellingham, Anthony for Collingwood
Kruezer, Armfield for Carlton
Dalziel for Brisbane
Myers for Essendon
Palmer for Fremantle
Urquhart for N Melbourne
Cotchin for Richmond
Bird for Sydney
Wilkes, Masten, Ebert for Westcoast
You would have to go back quite a few years to find a player making an impact in their first year at the Saints.

you haven't seen sam gilbert play?

apart from joel selwood is as good as most 40 game players going around

[yltnias]

Sam Gilbert - granted, he is a good player, but is in his second year, not his first.

[st.byron]

St Kilda
01/10/2008 4:19 PM
Paul Gough
Sportal
14 wins, 11 losses before this week - Position: Fourth:

Likely departures: Robert Harvey (retired), Matthew Ferguson, Michael Gardiner, Michael Rix, Aaron Fiora, Brad Howard.

Hasn't done his homework on Fiora. Wont be going anywhere unless traded. Has a year to run on his contract.
Also suggests that Rix will be de-listed whilst at the same time pointing out that our ruck stocks are thin.