Full marks to Hawthorn; we're off the pace

[thejiggingsaint]

The best team on the day won the prize and won it well! I have to be honest and say that we're way off the pace at present when it comes to winning the big one. However, there's just no sesnse in letting our disappointment turn to bitterness. We need to look at Hawthorn (yes and Geelong) and LEARN. The foundations for the success that they both have achieved were laid OFF FIELD. It may well be that we need to stop all this talk about picking up Kerr, Cousins, etc as a "quick fix" and instead recruit NOW for the future, i/e young players to complement our core of established stars.
It may not be pleasant to see Hawthorn and Geelong overtake us in development but we have to aspire to be better than them at becoming strong CLUBS!!!!

[GrumpyOne]

Agree in theory Jigster, but we should be careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

My own thoughts are aligned with the GT school of thought that says if you maintain your team near the top of the ladder, eventually success will come. To take the supreme gamble and slash and burn like Clarkson did you can, if you are unlucky, sentence yourself to a decade at the bottom of the ladder.

[thejiggingsaint]

Hey Grumps! I may not have made my point very clearly. I would of course not want to sacrifice the gains we've made and throw the baby out etc. I just think that the common denominator for Geelong and the Hawks has been a strengthening of organistion as clubs. Off field hard work has paid off in the grand manner, after several years of hard times.
We had a wonderful opportunity to forge ahead as a club but ego or whatever smashed that dream coming to fruition...the dream remains...we need to let our leaders know that we are prepared to work if they are!!!!!

[saintly]

Agree in theory Jigster, but we should be careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

My own thoughts are aligned with the GT school of thought that says if you maintain your team near the top of the ladder, eventually success will come. To take the supreme gamble and slash and burn like Clarkson did you can, if you are unlucky, sentence yourself to a decade at the bottom of the ladder.

hawthorn did a slash and burn, that was true,

they played hard with the trading of hay, thompson, and everitt. they were were ruthless in delisting older players or players that they thought would not win them a premiership.

now their window is open for the next number of years.

how many premierships will they win with this team which has only just begun developing?

i am jealous!

[saintspremiers]

We need to look ahead....and not make the same GT/RB mistake of modelling on the current premiers entirely....

The Hawks may not win another flag for many years, neither may Geelong.....we need to be a step ahead, pre procative and not reactive and just follow the current Premiers lead!

Agree Jiggster - it's about getting the off-field right first.

The Hawks had Waverly training base all signed up back in 2004 when Dicker was in charge, and moved in there last season (I think?).

We are still at least 2 years away - ie. 4+ years off the pace in that respect in so far as moving into a proper training facitily somewhere

Lyon has a clue about a coaching, Misson likewise re fitness management.

I reckon we may be a shot at the big one in 2010, but not next season.....

[SainterK]

The irony is, that Clarko said he took a look at the saints and geelong, and modelled the club on us...

[thejiggingsaint]

I'm not prepared to accept that we've become "no hopers" all of a sudden because of disappointing results in the finals. At the same time I think its going to take more than getting one or two recycled players and we're away and racing again! My feelings are that we have a VERY good core of players who need to become tougher and more committed to the TEAM.
I'm very concerned about where we are headed off-field. The relocation has dragged on, and the membership/marketing departments appear to be still in the dark ages. Apart from that I'm excited!

[Thinline]

Hawthorn were very good on the weekend, but lets not get carried away. Everything that could go their way pretty much did. I don't begrudge them their victory at all - far from it, their at the ball courage was incredible and I take great delight in seeing that sort of passion rewarded because often it dpesn't - but where Cats were hitting posts, Hawks were splitting 'em! I think there was an element of good fortune in their win. Hey, good on 'em though. They took advantage of their day in the sun, and I reckon that's great for footy. Opens the whole thing up again, and that can only be good. I had the feeling that we'd have another Cats-dominated year in 09 motivated by chance of a three-peat if they won on Sat. Now we know that can be beaten. And, arguably, Hawks are more beatable, so augurs well for interesting year ahead.

One thing Hawks do have is penetrating boots. Guerra, Hodge, Dew, Young and that's only a few of them....How often did they kick to advantage in space?? Cleared fifty and runners ran on...Good footy.

Re delistings of Hay, Thompson and Spider. Hay was fat and underperforming, Thompson was troubled off field, and Spider was the oldest of a swag of young rucks and was tossing up retirement. No disrespect to said three players, but am I wrong in suggesting they wouldn't have been terribly tough decisions for the club to make? Will happily stand corrected...

[saintly]

.

Re delistings of Hay, Thompson and Spider. Hay was fat and underperforming, Thompson was troubled off field, and Spider was the oldest of a swag of young rucks and was tossing up retirement. No disrespect to said three players, but am I wrong in suggesting they wouldn't have been terribly tough decisions for the club to make? Will happily stand corrected...

all of hay thomspon and spider were traded for draft picks.

north melbourne game up much for hay and thompson. (2 first rounders?? maybe) sydney gave up 2 draft picks.

now that is ruthless. thompson was troubled off fieled but hawthorn did not tell anyone.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

The irony is, that Clarko said he took a look at the saints and geelong, and modelled the club on us...

we began the whole idea of young upstarts playing unsociable rough football

[Cairnsman]

Ahh the latest FAD.

Now we will listen for the next 12months how we must be like the Hawks. It's been all about Geelong for the past 12 months and now all of sudden the shamless salivating for all things Geelong that was so prominent up until 5pm on Saturday has now dried up.

In 12 months time it is possible that the pundits will be saying we should all be like the Saints because their premiership success was largely due to desicions being made at some watershed moment or because of the systems we put in place and how we followed them.

Look I'm not having a go at anyone but seriously I am very pleased at the year the Saints had with regards to our future. It is interesting to note the suggestion that the Hawks won their premiership ahead of schedule and even more interesting to note that there is a suggestion that the Saints played above themselves to get into the top 4. So were we ahead of schedule this year and if we are doesn't that mean that we can either slide or go one better next year.

Time will tell but I am excited about what lies ahead for the Saints.

[St Marcus]

Ahh the latest FAD.

Now we will listen for the next 12months how we must be like the Hawks. It's been all about Geelong for the past 12 months and now all of sudden the shamless salivating for all things Geelong that was so prominent up until 5pm on Saturday has now dried up.

In 12 months time it is possible that the pundits will be saying we should all be like the Saints because their premiership success was largely due to desicions being made at some watershed moment or because of the systems we put in place and how we followed them.

Look I'm not having a go at anyone but seriously I am very pleased at the year the Saints had with regards to our future. It is interesting to note the suggestion that the Hawks won their premiership ahead of schedule and even more interesting to note that there is a suggestion that the Saints played above themselves to get into the top 4. So were we ahead of schedule this year and if we are doesn't that mean that we can either slide or go one better next year.

Time will tell but I am excited about what lies ahead for the Saints.

I second that, for goodness sake we got to a prelim. I agree we need to toughen up, concentrate on our skill base and be totally focussed. But I am excited and feel the future looks pretty good

[thejiggingsaint]

I'm excited about what lies ahead for the saints too Cairnsman. I'm not prepared to be completely uncritical about the Saints however. The bald facts are that both Geelong and Hawthorn went from clubs struggling with off field debt and low membership to premiership teams. The Saints were ahead of both of them ONFIELD four years ago and yet have failed to deliver the prize, and (if we're honest) look to be a season or two away from the flag. Its no "FAD" mate, its fact that we need to recover the ground we've lost to these clubs. If you're "happy" or "excited" about the club for the past two seasons then we are in the poo! I'm NOT saying that we should be IMITATING "all things Hawthorn and Geelong" what I AM saying is that we need urgently to return to what we were doing right during the time of the previous administration!! If we can LEARN then we can improve, lets not be too precious to give credit where its due! If we do that then we'll always be where we are now!

[bigcarl]

what I AM saying is that we need urgently to return to what we were doing right during the time of the previous administration

agree. you hear a lot of revisionist crap about it, but there is much to be said for how the club approached a lot of things in those years, including bringing kids through and getting them to play exciting football.

while our chances of a premiership were ruined by injury and politics and in-fighting, we actually blazed a trail for the hawthorns of the world to follow ... and they have admitted as much.

[Superboot]

I'm not saying that there isn't a fair bit to do on and off the field

But

Don't you just love the fact that we beat this terrific Hawthorn team by 5 goals?!!

And that a lot of of it was down to none other than Jason Blake?!!

[bigcarl]

Don't you just love the fact that we beat this terrific Hawthorn team by 5 goals?

that's got to give us some belief going into next season, i guess.

we've had their measure over a number of years, but i fear there will be no stopping them now.

our gameplan needs work with more emphasis on scoring and attack to be able to challenge them, i believe.

a couple of good young players would help, too.

[tweedaletomanning]

I'm not saying that there isn't a fair bit to do on and off the field

But

Don't you just love the fact that we beat this terrific Hawthorn team by 5 goals?!!

And that a lot of of it was down to none other than Jason Blake?!!

Really??? I must have been at the wrong prelim final

[vacuous space]

thompson was troubled off fieled but hawthorn did not tell anyone.

Hawthorn told everyone about Thompson's troubles. It was Hay that they failed to tell anyone about. Even still, anyone could work out that all was not right with Hay. His play had deteriorated considerably and there were all kinds of rumblings about an attitude problem. His very public brawlings with the Hawks didn't look too good at the time either. For whatever reason, North decided to pay a premium price for two guys who were never really worthy of it. It helped Hawthorn win a flag in the end.

[Superboot]

I'm not saying that there isn't a fair bit to do on and off the field

But

Don't you just love the fact that we beat this terrific Hawthorn team by 5 goals?!!

And that a lot of of it was down to none other than Jason Blake?!!

Really??? I must have been at the wrong prelim final

So, we didn't beat them by 5 goals

[NoMore]

Look i watched the GF on the weekend just like everyone else did. It was one of the most devastating days ever. I watched a side that we used to beat up for fun come out and beat up on the previous years premiers.

Surely it made the rest of u feel sick. I still have a bad taste in my mouth.

For to long our club has accept mediocrity. The way we play football is a disgrace. We play soft insipid footy.

I watched a team play football the way it should be played.

It is time for honesty at our little boys club.

Can anyone honestly see Dal, Kosi, Montagna, Fiora, Gwilt, and Gardener x2 playing in a gamew like that and succeeding.

It is so sad to say but this club is going no where until it learns to become ruthless in its expectations and its onfield play.

I'm so sorry

[ThePunter]

Yeah, I think we need to keep in mind, that as good as Hawthorn have been in their final four matches of the season (v Carl, v WB, v StK & v Geel), we beat them 72 days ago.

The fact that the Geelong dragon has been slayed gives me cause for optimism, because I think Hawthorn more likely than Geelong to have bad days.

[Cairnsman]

I'm excited about what lies ahead for the saints too Cairnsman. I'm not prepared to be completely uncritical about the Saints however. The bald facts are that both Geelong and Hawthorn went from clubs struggling with off field debt and low membership to premiership teams. The Saints were ahead of both of them ONFIELD four years ago and yet have failed to deliver the prize, and (if we're honest) look to be a season or two away from the flag. Its no "FAD" mate, its fact that we need to recover the ground we've lost to these clubs. If you're "happy" or "excited" about the club for the past two seasons then we are in the poo! I'm NOT saying that we should be IMITATING "all things Hawthorn and Geelong" what I AM saying is that we need urgently to return to what we were doing right during the time of the previous administration!! If we can LEARN then we can improve, lets not be too precious to give credit where its due! If we do that then we'll always be where we are now!

Jigster I'm happy to be a season or two away from a flag. How can that be seen as a bad thing unless you blurr the argument with the 'premiership windows' discussion. You see it's all relative when you talk about loosing ground, for example you can argue that Geelong has lost ground to the Hawks in the past 3 days. What happened in 2008 is over and I am excited about 2009 based on what I saw in the second half of 2008.

[NoMore]

All i have to say that the way hawthorn play i don't wanna meet them in a grand final

[saintspremiers]

If you want further proof of how ruthless and how much of an arsehole (in a good way!) Clarko can be, look no further than when he did everything to deny
Fev getting a hundred goals in a meaningless (re finals) match.

Fev was pissed off and told Clarko on The Footy Show.

What did Clarkson and the Hawks have to gain?

Simple - a hard nosed edge that stands with them over the off season and into next year.

[SainterK]

thompson was troubled off fieled but hawthorn did not tell anyone.

Hawthorn told everyone about Thompson's troubles. It was Hay that they failed to tell anyone about. Even still, anyone could work out that all was not right with Hay. His play had deteriorated considerably and there were all kinds of rumblings about an attitude problem. His very public brawlings with the Hawks didn't look too good at the time either. For whatever reason, North decided to pay a premium price for two guys who were never really worthy of it. It helped Hawthorn win a flag in the end.

Thompson was the leader of the Kanga's goal kicking two years running, it couldn't be helped he did his knee as he was approaching his late twenties.

Goddard sustained a similar injury, and luckily had the advantage of youth on his side.