Topping Up, Investing in Youth or Both?

fonz_#15 · Post: # 655888Post **fonz_#15** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 12:28pm

it is an interesting debate and the way i see it we are in a real prick of a position. "bottoming out" for draft picks would be illogical and stupid as most should agree, however it is clear we are not at the level of geelong and hawthorn and we need to do something.

we must recruit and trade intelligently this year without making too many drastic changes.

we have a good core, we just need a couple of ready made youngsters as well assome middle tier players to really step up and we may be able to match the contenders.

Otiman · Post: # 655925Post **Otiman** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 1:41pm

Once our core retires, we're going to bottom out in a major way.

It was a gamble to get a core of players of similar age to develop together and play well as a team. If it doesn't pay off we are looking at a few years doing the same again at the bottom.

saintly · Post: # 655926Post **saintly** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 1:44pm

maverick wrote:Agree with most on here by the way.
Next year is a golden goose ready to be taken IMO.
The Hawks have some key injuries from this year whcih will interrupt pre season, they will also suffer a little from premiership hangover I reckon.
The Cats will have some scarring from GF day and will be fragile come next September.With no obvious challengers below them we have a golden opportunity next year if we can get something together.

Go all out next year for mine.
Keep the first pick, trade the second and get Cousins to the club.

now that is very optimisitc. If you read today's papers, hawthorn is already looking at being aggressive in trade week and are already looking to have 50,000 members next year, etc .

they won't have a premiership hangover.

Geelong have stated that they will developing an acadamy for developing players. they will not be scarred.

the saints appear to be miles behind those two.

kdog · Post: # 655927Post **kdog** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 1:44pm

i've heard we're trading david armitage to the dees for pick 19
worth it, because armitage is alright, but our younger guys are better. and if we get pick 19 it'll help us and give us a 2nd top 20 pick. this yrs draft is good.

Saints Premiers 2008 · Mon 29 Sep 2008 1:50pm

kdog wrote:i've heard we're trading david armitage to the dees for pick 19
worth it, because armitage is alright, but our younger guys are better. and if we get pick 19 it'll help us and give us a 2nd top 20 pick. this yrs draft is good.

but we have semingly gotten it correct with drafting armitage, so we bother getting a non-top 10 for him...

source?

kdog · Post: # 655932Post **kdog** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 1:51pm

a guy i know who works at the club and a few people at the media outlet where i work said
kerr is still being considered by us, but its becoming more unlikely as eagles are trying to convince kerr to sign for 3 or 4 not 5.

Saints Premiers 2008 · Mon 29 Sep 2008 1:53pm

kdog wrote:a guy i know who works at the club and a few people at the media outlet where i work said
kerr is still being considered by us, but its becoming more unlikely as eagles are trying to convince kerr to sign for 3 or 4 not 5.

absolute garbage unless armitage has major problems getting his head together

but then again if he did the club would work with him to get it right as he is worth it

all 20 year olds have issues...

kdog · Post: # 655937Post **kdog** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 1:57pm

mate..no bulls***
we have other youngsters, and pick 19 would be worth it. could get a zaharakis or blease. inject a bit of pace into our team

kdog · Post: # 655938Post **kdog** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 1:57pm

and armitage would go to the gold coast in 2 yrs anyway, so let the dees have him

Otiman · Post: # 655942Post **Otiman** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 2:02pm

kdog wrote:i've heard we're trading david armitage to the dees for pick 19
worth it, because armitage is alright, but our younger guys are better. and if we get pick 19 it'll help us and give us a 2nd top 20 pick. this yrs draft is good.

19 and Green. Deal done.

kdog · Post: # 655943Post **kdog** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 2:04pm

Otiman wrote:
kdog wrote:i've heard we're trading david armitage to the dees for pick 19
worth it, because armitage is alright, but our younger guys are better. and if we get pick 19 it'll help us and give us a 2nd top 20 pick. this yrs draft is good.
19 and Green. Deal done.

as in-- it's done? or you'd do that

BigMart · Post: # 655947Post **BigMart** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 2:20pm

You just improve your list, the best way available.....if that is via the draft, and so be it.....if that means a couple of trades, then so be it..

It all depends upon what is on the table, and whether that IMPROVES the list.....

I believe you trade to fill list holes, and draft the best available juniors....

My rules on trading would be...
1st Round pick.....Must be under 25, already an established 'A-Grader' Very rarely do this....player would have to be vital for tem structure.
Etc...Daniel Kerr
2nd Round Pick....Must be under 25, Aleady an established 'B-Grader'
etc...Brent Reilly
3rd Round Pick.....Under 21yo with potential to be a 'B-Grader' or better

4th Round Pick......Established player who can contribute for a couple of years at senior level or fill a hole player not getting a go
Ben Cousins/Ryan Murphy

Only ever trade ONE draft pick (max) per year (if any)

Player trades
Trade players of different type....no use trading like for like...
be the one gaining the trade, not asking for the trade...opposition must want the trade more...
Trade for players underachieving at other clubs, due to lack of opportunity or gone stale in their environment

Pre-Season
Best uncontracted....if one is available

Quixote · Post: # 655948Post **Quixote** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 2:21pm

19 and that bald guy. What's his name?

Otiman · Post: # 655949Post **Otiman** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 2:24pm

kdog wrote:
Otiman wrote:19 and Green. Deal done.
as in-- it's done? or you'd do that

As in i'd do that.

No deals are done until the friday of trade week, so don't believe any rumours!

kdog · Post: # 655956Post **kdog** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 2:42pm

well the 19 for armitgae has apparently been arranged and long discussed cos dees very keen on armitage. pick 19 would be good, we'll take that and get someone good. armitage was a top 10 draft pick and to be honest, has been only okay.

GrumpyOne · Post: # 656108Post **GrumpyOne** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 6:14pm

kdog wrote:well the 19 for armitgae has apparently been arranged and long discussed cos dees very keen on armitage. pick 19 would be good, we'll take that and get someone good. armitage was a top 10 draft pick and to be honest, has been only okay.

FFS.... Armo for 19?????

Who's smoking what round here?

Otiman · Post: # 656191Post **Otiman** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 8:03pm

kdog wrote:well the 19 for armitgae has apparently been arranged and long discussed cos dees very keen on armitage. pick 19 would be good, we'll take that and get someone good. armitage was a top 10 draft pick and to be honest, has been only okay.

He's not worth #19 in this years draft. Maybe #12.

bobmurray · Post: # 656195Post **bobmurray** » Mon 29 Sep 2008 8:17pm

Otiman wrote:
kdog wrote:i've heard we're trading david armitage to the dees for pick 19
worth it, because armitage is alright, but our younger guys are better. and if we get pick 19 it'll help us and give us a 2nd top 20 pick. this yrs draft is good.
19 and Green. Deal done.

Green is so overrated.....

Ask any Melbourne supporter what they think of him and inconsistent may be one word you'll hear and that may be the kindest remark...

kdog · Post: # 656398Post **kdog** » Tue 30 Sep 2008 11:43am

nah
green is very good player noiw
3 years ago they wouldve said inconsistent
he'll win their B&F this year, i watched a few of their games. he would be a lot better in a better team- better tahn Joel Corey, Corey is overrated and an exmaple of benefiting from a good team. Nothing compared to ablett, bartel, ling, selwood

spert · Post: # 656417Post **spert** » Tue 30 Sep 2008 12:37pm

We won't win a flag with the current midfield and forward line structure. These are the areas where recruiting and trading is vital. We need players in the midfield who have good penetrating kicking skills, goal kicking sense, and a have burst ability from packs. Our current midfield is proppy, one-paced and has problems kicking with any confidence over 40 metres. We need at least two more avenues to goal, and need strong-bodied half forwards and a full forward. Not an easy task, but as with Hawthorn, we need a plan to win a premiership, and need to stick to it.

suss · Post: # 656426Post **suss** » Tue 30 Sep 2008 1:00pm

BigMart wrote:You just improve your list, the best way available.....if that is via the draft, and so be it.....if that means a couple of trades, then so be it..

It all depends upon what is on the table, and whether that IMPROVES the list.....

I believe you trade to fill list holes, and draft the best available juniors....

My rules on trading would be...
1st Round pick.....Must be under 25, already an established 'A-Grader' Very rarely do this....player would have to be vital for tem structure.
Etc...Daniel Kerr
2nd Round Pick....Must be under 25, Aleady an established 'B-Grader'
etc...Brent Reilly
3rd Round Pick.....Under 21yo with potential to be a 'B-Grader' or better

4th Round Pick......Established player who can contribute for a couple of years at senior level or fill a hole player not getting a go
Ben Cousins/Ryan Murphy

Only ever trade ONE draft pick (max) per year (if any)

Player trades
Trade players of different type....no use trading like for like...
be the one gaining the trade, not asking for the trade...opposition must want the trade more...
Trade for players underachieving at other clubs, due to lack of opportunity or gone stale in their environment

Pre-Season
Best uncontracted....if one is available

Great post and a good summary of what we should be trying to achieve next week.

borderbarry · Tue 30 Sep 2008 1:00pm

We definitely need to trade a few players for draft picks, but I dont think trading someone as young as Armitage is the way to go. We have too many outside players at the club. He is not one of them. We should look at trading away some of them.

WayneJudson42 · Tue 30 Sep 2008 1:28pm

bobmurray wrote:
Otiman wrote:
kdog wrote:i've heard we're trading david armitage to the dees for pick 19
worth it, because armitage is alright, but our younger guys are better. and if we get pick 19 it'll help us and give us a 2nd top 20 pick. this yrs draft is good.
19 and Green. Deal done.
Green is so overrated.....

Ask any Melbourne supporter what they think of him and inconsistent may be one word you'll hear and that may be the kindest remark...

What... ask all 237 of them?

kaos theory · Tue 30 Sep 2008 2:30pm

well the 19 for armitgae has apparently been arranged and long discussed cos dees very keen on armitage. pick 19 would be good, we'll take that and get someone good. armitage was a top 10 draft pick and to be honest, has been only okay

I'd be happy to trade armo for that. Getting pick 19 and a maybe green sound fine to me. Armo has got too much of what we don't need...slow & lazy. Sorry, but I'm not convinced about this kid's ability. He has talent, but I'm not sure he will even get to a B Grader. Hope I'm wrong...but I would look at a trade for picks in this draft.

kaos theory · Tue 30 Sep 2008 2:33pm

We won't win a flag with the current midfield and forward line structure. These are the areas where recruiting and trading is vital. We need players in the midfield who have good penetrating kicking skills, goal kicking sense, and a have burst ability from packs. Our current midfield is proppy, one-paced and has problems kicking with any confidence over 40 metres. We need at least two more avenues to goal, and need strong-bodied half forwards and a full forward. Not an easy task, but as with Hawthorn, we need a plan to win a premiership, and need to stick to it.

Agreed, spert.