KOSI

[Bernard Shakey]

Prove that, Bernard.

I've seen every Saints game in Melbourne and 2 interstate this year and also most open training sessions.

In my opinion Kosi plays as he trains and doesn't try.

What a dumb comment by you Thinline. Says to me you are about 12 or 13, because only a kid would come out with a comment like "Prove that".

Ease up, mate. You're being a bit touchy for someone who takes apparent delight in slinging it left right and centre. There's no need to attack me personally. Fair dinkum. You rip into Kos with steel capped boots at every opportunity and it's only fair you be asked to account for what I reckon is a pretty blinkered view. Asking you to validate youself is infinitely more mature than taking every chance you can to assassinate a bloke. What does that make you? Three?

What I saw, and threfore what you must have seen as well, is a player who kicked 30.21, smashed the occasional pack open, took the occasional great grab, and a lot of the time contested like a big bloke should. Hardly the stuff of someone who, as you so vehemently state, 'never tries'.

The flipside of course is that he also went missing too often, something that was frustrating to us all when we'd prefer him to be more consistent.

Add to that the valid point mentioned by many already that we have a cluster of midfielders, wingers, and back flankers who struggle to hit the side of a barn. In fact the only one who hits forward targets - usually Riewoldt - with anything approaching consistency is 37 and just left the game. I'd love it of Kos had go go gadget arms and hands like platters filled with glue, but fairs fair. For a bloke clearly struggling to play his best, you can hardly say with any authority that he's getting the best delivery. Now perhaps he isn't quick enough to be a KP forward or a lead up player. In that case it's up to Lyon and Barker to create a strategy to leave him one out in space and somehow upskill our delivery men to put the ball in something resembling the right place. Whatever. But the simple fact remains there are very few big men who play an interchangable forward/ruck role who are setting the game alight so we'd be foolish to forcibly remove ours. It'd leave a gaping hole we'd never fill. McEvoy's too young (and if you watched the Kangaroo's game you would have noted he seems to want to mark with his forehead), M Gardiner's gone (apparently), Allen's a puppy, Ferguson doesn't get a sniff, and Van Rheenen's shown very little.

Look, it seems he and Dal will be tossed up as trade bait. If he goes, he goes, so maybe all your dreams will come true.

But I say work with what we have, find a way to make Kos more consistent, fine a way to make his presence on the ground damaging, and get on with it.

Culling him IMO does nothing positive.

In MY view.

You cannot blame our mids for Kosi's inconsistent and very often poor performances.

The reason the mids don't kick it to him is that he doesn't present.
He may make one attempt at a lead, if it's not kicked to him he gives up.

To be a key forward you require a serious work ethic which I believe he lacks.

To say Lyon and Barker (who probably won't be there next year) need to find a strategy to suit Kosi is laughable. It is a team game and he needs to be part of the team. You will never build a team around him.

At the beginning of the season I felt Kosi was on the right track and his prospects and those of the club looked great for this year.

Maybe the gameplan doesn't suit him (it certainly didn't suit Fraser) but as I said it's a team game. He needs to fit in.

I feel a move would be good for him and the club, but only if the right can be brokered.

If Kosi is traded all my dreams will not come true. That will only happen when for the second time in my life I see the Saints win a premiership.

[Thinline]

To say Lyon and Barker (who probably won't be there next year) need to find a strategy to suit Kosi is laughable. It is a team game and he needs to be part of the team. You will never build a team around him.

You've been listening to Ragged Glory turned up too loud, Bern !!

You've got to give your forwards every opportunity by delivering the ball to their best advantage.

Franklin? Fevola? Their clubs work incredibly hard in their forward 50 to give those guys best crack at it. Undeniable.

We can do the same. Surely we can.

If Kos is going to be a FF, then he ain't going to beat a defender on the lead too often a la No 12 (he's not quick enough), so of course we're going find a Plan B (ie just as an off the cuff example Riewoldt leading right, Kosi going left, ball high, Kosi play in front, too big, too strong, compulsory to have someone front and square, if Kos don't atch it a crumber will snaffle it up). Our delivery to anyone but Riewoldt (and even that's often way too high) is very suspect.

With Kos this year there didn't seem to be a system beyond 'kick the bloody thing in his general direction'.

Now, granted, perhaps a Carey or a Buddy or some other bullocking athletic type might be able to make something of that, but Kos clearly can't with anything resembling regularity. And he still kicked 30.21.

Mate, I'm not the the President of the Save Kosi club or anything, I agree he needs to improve, but as you say, its a team game. Improve the team and how the team impacts our forward set up and I reckon you'll go a long way to improving our much maligned 23.

Now I'm gonna leave this topic alone. My fingers are getting sore.

Agree to disagree?

[BigMart]

Couple of Questions

1) would you like Kosi playing FF/CHF at the doggies?..who are already better than us with one glaring weakness that this will fix

2) Why do the Bulldogs want to get Kosi?

[st.byron]

Bernard has been slagging of at kosi all year.I am the first to admit that kosi hasnt had a great year but you can get your point across without getting into the gutter.But after post opon post of negative propagander hes a dud & trade him & you back him.Well I think birds of a feather flock together & im not playing games I just have a little bit more respect for the club than you do .

You've missed my point. I don't and haven't backed anyone saying he's a dud, nor have I advocated trading him, unless the deal's exceptional.
I support assessing Kosi on his actual performances rather than being blindly loyal because he's a good bloke or just because he's in a Saints guernsey. Bernard's willing to do that too. IMO Bernard's a bit too willing to trade him, but he's at least looking at what he's delivered rather than clinging on to what Kosi might be.
And why keep on with stuff like " I just have a little more respect for the club than you"? Let's just stick to debating what Kosi does and doesn't deliver and leave off the personal slagging. If it makes you feel like you're point's more valid it's up to you. It doesn't actually contribute anything to the debate though.

[To the top]

Perhaps you may like to go thru the lists of the other teams and search out those players at 197cm who weigh less than 100kg.

Let's start with Geelong, because they are the benchmark.

They have Mooney (195cm and 99kg) and Lonergan (197cm and 99kg).

Neither of them are called on to ruck.

Geelong ruck Ottens at 202cm and 108kg and Blake at 200cm and 101kg.

Now go thru the other sides.

Starting with Hawthorn which have Franklin (196cm and 101kg) and he does not have to ruck and play full forward. They ruck Taylor (200cm and 105kg) and (now) Renouf (200cm and 97kg and taking over from Campbell at 199cm and 110kg) - and it may be the ruck where they get sliced open tomorrow.

Then come back here and start making some sensible comments.

If you want to allow Koschitzke to play his best football, play him in the correct position - and that is NOT rucking - where he is wasted because he gives away height and weight - and, can I remind you, after rucking, he goes to full forward for a rest, except he is then supposed to be our "saviour" full forward!

See now why King (201cm and 104kg) and M. Gardiner (199cm and 103kg) are so important to us?

And why McEvoy at 200cm and 95kg will hopefully develop but needs a couple of years before rucking.

Our other option is Rix at 198cm and 101kg.

Van Rheenan is 201cm and 98kg, so ditto McEvoy.

[st.byron]

Perhaps you may like to go thru the lists of the other teams and search out those players at 197cm who weigh less than 100kg.

Let's start with Geelong, because they are the benchmark.

They have Mooney (195cm and 99kg) and Lonergan (197cm and 99kg).

Neither of them are called on to ruck.

Geelong ruck Ottens at 202cm and 108kg and Blake at 200cm and 101kg.

Now go thru the other sides.

Starting with Hawthorn which have Franklin (196cm and 101kg) and he does not have to ruck and play full forward. They ruck Taylor (200cm and 105kg) and (now) Renouf (200cm and 97kg and taking over from Campbell at 199cm and 110kg) - and it may be the ruck where they get sliced open tomorrow.

Then come back here and start making some sensible comments.

If you want to allow Koschitzke to play his best football, play him in the correct position - and that is NOT rucking - where he is wasted because he gives away height and weight - and, can I remind you, after rucking, he goes to full forward for a rest, except he is then supposed to be our "saviour" full forward!

See now why King (201cm and 104kg) and M. Gardiner (199cm and 103kg) are so important to us?

And why McEvoy at 200cm and 95kg will hopefully develop but needs a couple of years before rucking.

Our other option is Rix at 198cm and 101kg.

Van Rheenan is 201cm and 98kg, so ditto McEvoy.

Interesting stats TTT. So you reckon Kosi should just be left at FF? Do you think that's where he should be?

[Thinline]

You're right TTT. The rigours of rucking and then having to hold down a key attacking position should not be underestimated.

Rucking is extraordinarily physically demanding.

[plugger66]

Perhaps you may like to go thru the lists of the other teams and search out those players at 197cm who weigh less than 100kg.

Let's start with Geelong, because they are the benchmark.

They have Mooney (195cm and 99kg) and Lonergan (197cm and 99kg).

Neither of them are called on to ruck.

Geelong ruck Ottens at 202cm and 108kg and Blake at 200cm and 101kg.

Now go thru the other sides.

Starting with Hawthorn which have Franklin (196cm and 101kg) and he does not have to ruck and play full forward. They ruck Taylor (200cm and 105kg) and (now) Renouf (200cm and 97kg and taking over from Campbell at 199cm and 110kg) - and it may be the ruck where they get sliced open tomorrow.

Then come back here and start making some sensible comments.

If you want to allow Koschitzke to play his best football, play him in the correct position - and that is NOT rucking - where he is wasted because he gives away height and weight - and, can I remind you, after rucking, he goes to full forward for a rest, except he is then supposed to be our "saviour" full forward!

See now why King (201cm and 104kg) and M. Gardiner (199cm and 103kg) are so important to us?

And why McEvoy at 200cm and 95kg will hopefully develop but needs a couple of years before rucking.

Our other option is Rix at 198cm and 101kg.

Van Rheenan is 201cm and 98kg, so ditto McEvoy.

Funny I watched most games he started at FF many more times than in the ruck. Reckon he rucked for 30% of the season. He isnt a FF and never will be. He is an old fashioned utility and if you can still get away with having them in the AFL today he will be ok. If not he is never going to be what some supporters want.

[saintly_safes]

Bernard has been slagging of at kosi all year.I am the first to admit that kosi hasnt had a great year but you can get your point across without getting into the gutter.But after post opon post of negative propagander hes a dud & trade him & you back him.Well I think birds of a feather flock together & im not playing games I just have a little bit more respect for the club than you do .

You've missed my point. I don't and haven't backed anyone saying he's a dud, nor have I advocated trading him, unless the deal's exceptional.
I support assessing Kosi on his actual performances rather than being blindly loyal because he's a good bloke or just because he's in a Saints guernsey. Bernard's willing to do that too. IMO Bernard's a bit too willing to trade him, but he's at least looking at what he's delivered rather than clinging on to what Kosi might be.
And why keep on with stuff like " I just have a little more respect for the club than you"? Let's just stick to debating what Kosi does and doesn't deliver and leave off the personal slagging. If it makes you feel like you're point's more valid it's up to you. It doesn't actually contribute anything to the debate though.

So you would like trade him .What do you think hes worth ? Obviously you think hes not up to it ,so 2nd round draft pick , 3 maybe, Farren Ray, Jeff White, if hes playing as bad as you have stated, well I would think these options are a bit high , so no club would want him.So to me it would make perfect sense to keep him.Your turn

[st.byron]

So you would like trade him .What do you think hes worth ? Obviously you think hes not up to it ,so 2nd round draft pick , 3 maybe, Farren Ray, Jeff White, if hes playing as bad as you have stated, well I would think these options are a bit high , so no club would want him.So to me it would make perfect sense to keep him.Your turn

Saintly, read my posts. I do not advocate trading him cheaply because I'm sick of his lack of output. How many times do I have to say it!! Is that clear? I think it would be premature to trade him, but I do think he needs to seriously lift his output and it needs to happen in 2009. Not expecting him to be a superstar, but he needs to be a consistent contributor and not go missing for weeks on end, several times a season.
However, I also think he's not untouchable in the way that Roo or Lenny or Sam Fisher are. He's a serial under performer. 2007 and 2008 seasons illustrate that as do the stats.
If we could get a high draft pick plus another useful player or an established top class mid-fielder for him, then I'd take it. Unlikely that that will happen though.
I would like to see his value to the club assessed on what he's done rather than what he might do. Fair and reasonable I reckon.

[plugger66]

Would you 2 stop going back and forth. Cannot believe posters would do that.

[jackal]

Kosi was the rising star at CHB. I know a different time and all but could he play down back?

[saintly_safes]

So you would like trade him .What do you think hes worth ? Obviously you think hes not up to it ,so 2nd round draft pick , 3 maybe, Farren Ray, Jeff White, if hes playing as bad as you have stated, well I would think these options are a bit high , so no club would want him.So to me it would make perfect sense to keep him.Your turn

Saintly, read my posts. I do not advocate trading him cheaply because I'm sick of his lack of output. How many times do I have to say it!! Is that clear? I think it would be premature to trade him, but I do think he needs to seriously lift his output and it needs to happen in 2009. Not expecting him to be a superstar, but he needs to be a consistent contributor and not go missing for weeks on end, several times a season.
However, I also think he's not untouchable in the way that Roo or Lenny or Sam Fisher are. He's a serial under performer. 2007 and 2008 seasons illustrate that as do the stats.
If we could get a high draft pick plus another useful player or an established top class mid-fielder for him, then I'd take it. Unlikely that that will happen though.
I would like to see his value to the club assessed on what he's done rather than what he might do. Fair and reasonable I reckon.

Im confused, you want high concessions for him but your'e saying his on field performance has been poor for 2 years, so what club is going to give you a high pick for a habitual poor performer .

[To the top]

I just have a view that Kosi is a better proposition at half forward - and the problem is that he does not get to play there because of his ruck obligations and because of Riewoldt.

Playing Kosi at CHF and Riewoldt in a (fully fit) Goodes manner is what I would like to see.

That takes 60 plus goals from our attack, granted - but Roo can still create mayhem by going forward at his discretion. Plus, if Roo can dominate from the mid-field with his work ethic and skills (noting Harvey is gone) the ball will be going into attack frequently so opportunities for the forward 6 willl increase - plus Roo can deliver the pill.

What that then opens up is the need for another key forward, and that is where Allen must come in (including because what other options do we have except for McEvoy, who may get a run deep in attack as a lead up to rucking in future years). We also need a genuine goal kicking flanker, obviously.

To go back to Kosi, he can lead but generally prefers to "stay at home" when at full forward, where he can take very strong contested marks when his positioning is favoured by the disposal in, but is double teamed and blocked for this very reason. This adds considerably to the degree of difficulty.

This may be the team plan because of the work Roo does and because our attack also has Schnieder and Milne at ground level, so we should not mind the ball there.

If Kosi is out positioned (including because of disposal in - where we only really had Harvey as effective) then his instruction is to create a contest to force the ball to the ground where Milne and Schnieder kicked 90 goals between them.

No-one makes mention of the 90 goals between Milne and Schnieder and how they came to be.

[jackal]

This thread is a bit silly as Kosi will not be going anywhere.

Seriously guys, sometimes you have to stick to your guns even if it never works out. It was Caeser (thanks Asterix comics) who said 'the die is cast', . Ours was rolled a long time back and we either win a flag with the guys we have or we don't and try again and again and again. If we look back in 6-7 years time and miss out then spewing but so be it.

Remember Sydney lost Dunkley, Kelly,cresswell,Schwass, Lockett, Roos, dale Lewis all within a couple of seasons and it looked like years of pain. A couple of years later and they won the bickies so even if we don't succeed with this group the next group still could do us proud.

[plugger66]

I just have a view that Kosi is a better proposition at half forward - and the problem is that he does not get to play there because of his ruck obligations and because of Riewoldt.

Playing Kosi at CHF and Riewoldt in a (fully fit) Goodes manner is what I would like to see.

That takes 60 plus goals from our attack, granted - but Roo can still create mayhem by going forward at his discretion. Plus, if Roo can dominate from the mid-field with his work ethic and skills (noting Harvey is gone) the ball will be going into attack frequently so opportunities for the forward 6 willl increase - plus Roo can deliver the pill.

What that then opens up is the need for another key forward, and that is where Allen must come in (including because what other options do we have except for McEvoy, who may get a run deep in attack as a lead up to rucking in future years). We also need a genuine goal kicking flanker, obviously.

To go back to Kosi, he can lead but generally prefers to "stay at home" when at full forward, where he can take very strong contested marks when his positioning is favoured by the disposal in, but is double teamed and blocked for this very reason. This adds considerably to the degree of difficulty.

This may be the team plan because of the work Roo does and because our attack also has Schnieder and Milne at ground level, so we should not mind the ball there.

If Kosi is out positioned (including because of disposal in - where we only really had Harvey as effective) then his instruction is to create a contest to force the ball to the ground where Milne and Schnieder kicked 90 goals between them.

No-one makes mention of the 90 goals between Milne and Schnieder and how they came to be.

Why would we want to move our best forward and probably the second best in the AFL so Kosi gets a position. If that is the only position he can play well he better learn to play elsewhere because Rooy will not be going anywhere. having said that I dont think Kosi has much idea at all on how to play forward. He is a utilty and as a few on here have said he can only take marks regularally when jumping at the ball, not leading or one on one.

[saintly_safes]

OK ,ive put my point across that imo Kosi is a required player I just dont like "our supporters" bagging him with no real idea what he actually does & how important he is to our team.But I have rested my case ok St Byron I call a truce i have given mine & you have given your I guess we agree to disagree . Sorry for dragging this out but I live breathe & dream St.Kilda & will to the day i'm pushing up daisies & I hurt every loss & celebrate every win with gusto no matter if we are premiership favourites( I wish ) or wooden spooners GO SAINTS & KOSI

[jk23]

OK ,ive put my point across that imo Kosi is a required player I just dont like "our supporters" bagging him with no real idea what he actually does & how important he is to our team.But I have rested my case ok St Byron I call a truce i have given mine & you have given your I guess we agree to disagree . Sorry for dragging this out but I live breathe & dream St.Kilda & will to the day i'm pushing up daisies & I hurt every loss & celebrate every win with gusto no matter if we are premiership favourites( I wish ) or wooden spooners GO SAINTS & KOSI

DITTO

[Bernard Shakey]

OK ,ive put my point across that imo Kosi is a required player I just dont like "our supporters" bagging him with no real idea what he actually does & how important he is to our team.But I have rested my case ok St Byron I call a truce i have given mine & you have given your I guess we agree to disagree . Sorry for dragging this out but I live breathe & dream St.Kilda & will to the day i'm pushing up daisies & I hurt every loss & celebrate every win with gusto no matter if we are premiership favourites( I wish ) or wooden spooners GO SAINTS & KOSI

I know what he actually does, sweet F*** all, and I know how important he is to our team, not very.

He does not have a position he can play in, so is useless to the team structure and would be better off being traded, hopefully for a first round pick, and we can all get on with the job of wining our second premiership.

[SainterK]

Oh Bernard, you have gone and made me all cross again

[saintly_safes]

OK ,ive put my point across that imo Kosi is a required player I just dont like "our supporters" bagging him with no real idea what he actually does & how important he is to our team.But I have rested my case ok St Byron I call a truce i have given mine & you have given your I guess we agree to disagree . Sorry for dragging this out but I live breathe & dream St.Kilda & will to the day i'm pushing up daisies & I hurt every loss & celebrate every win with gusto no matter if we are premiership favourites( I wish ) or wooden spooners GO SAINTS & KOSI

I know what he actually does, sweet F*** all, and I know how important he is to our team, not very.

He does not have a position he can play in, so is useless to the team structure and would be better off being traded, hopefully for a first round pick, and we can all get on with the job of wining our second premiership.

congratulations you are the saintsational troll of the year by a landslide, you have done your self proud & next year you will have back to back titles youre a champion I think i will call you "clanga"

[To the top]

I reckon the "Plug the Pipe" brigade are out of order because we do need alternative sources of water - and when you are relying on precipitation nothing is guaranteed so you need a raft of contingencies and not just digging more holes in the ground and hoping that that is where it rains for 40 days and 40 nights, plus the back up of a de-sal plant.

Having said that, I have noted that my contributions appear to be religiously followed by responses from Plugger 66, saying the AFL are magnificent and a raft of St Kilda players are duds and should be traded for No. 1 Draft Picks.

Given the trend of these responses by Plugger 66, which do not add to debate, I would move that we do actually plug someone - being Plugger 66!

Simply mate, we have had one mid-fielder who has been able to pass with precision to our forwards, and his loss, no matter that he was 37 years of age, will be savage.

I will emphasis that by saying savage indeed.

To add, our mid-field is deficient both in numbers and class.

That is why, except for Gram, they do not put scoreboard pressure on.

Our scoring is dominated by Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Milne and Schnieder - then Gram.

Where are X. Clarke, Hayes, Montagna, Ball, Fiora, Goddard, Armitage, Birss, Dal Santo, Gwilt, Jones, Geary, McQualter and Eddy?

Leaving out the lack of goals, the only ones of that group you could confidently pick are Gram, X. Clarke, Hayes, Montagna, Ball, Goddard and Dal Santo.

So we look to R. Clarke, and support from even S. Fisher (and we hope Maguire comes back to "free up" S. Fisher to a defensive flank to play offensively and "drift" into the mid-field) because the above 7 and Gram are not enough.

And we look to Riewoldt, upon whom we already have a very un-healthy reliance - how many B&F's?

Riewoldt is not only our best Full forward, he is our best CHF and our best player.

He has commitment to the contest, he has endurance, he has skills above his head which would be even more damaging without a couple of defenders hanging off him, he has skills at ground level and he has precise disposal skills off both feet.

You use your best players where they can have most impact on the result of a game.

And you do not close off options just because Roo is our best CHF.

You look at other options, and you develop other options and it may just be that settled a line out from goal, and able to move furher around the ground without needing to contest the ruck contests against guys who are 10 or 15 kgs heavier than him, and taller, may be the making of Kosi.

And, in the absence of our best mid-fielder, Roo may prove even more damaging because of the type of player he is.

Can I remind you, Plugger 66, that Richmond put Richardson on a wing and he very nearly won a Brownlow.

Their best full forward and their best CHF nearly pulls a Brownlow from a wing.

And it forced others to stand up in attack.

That is what we require at St Kilda.

[plugger66]

I reckon the "Plug the Pipe" brigade are out of order because we do need alternative sources of water - and when you are relying on precipitation nothing is guaranteed so you need a raft of contingencies and not just digging more holes in the ground and hoping that that is where it rains for 40 days and 40 nights, plus the back up of a de-sal plant.

Having said that, I have noted that my contributions appear to be religiously followed by responses from Plugger 66, saying the AFL are magnificent and a raft of St Kilda players are duds and should be traded for No. 1 Draft Picks.

Given the trend of these responses by Plugger 66, which do not add to debate, I would move that we do actually plug someone - being Plugger 66!

Simply mate, we have had one mid-fielder who has been able to pass with precision to our forwards, and his loss, no matter that he was 37 years of age, will be savage.

I will emphasis that by saying savage indeed.

To add, our mid-field is deficient both in numbers and class.

That is why, except for Gram, they do not put scoreboard pressure on.

Our scoring is dominated by Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Milne and Schnieder - then Gram.

Where are X. Clarke, Hayes, Montagna, Ball, Fiora, Goddard, Armitage, Birss, Dal Santo, Gwilt, Jones, Geary, McQualter and Eddy?

Leaving out the lack of goals, the only ones of that group you could confidently pick are Gram, X. Clarke, Hayes, Montagna, Ball, Goddard and Dal Santo.

So we look to R. Clarke, and support from even S. Fisher (and we hope Maguire comes back to "free up" S. Fisher to a defensive flank to play offensively and "drift" into the mid-field) because the above 7 and Gram are not enough.

And we look to Riewoldt, upon whom we already have a very un-healthy reliance - how many B&F's?

Riewoldt is not only our best Full forward, he is our best CHF and our best player.

He has commitment to the contest, he has endurance, he has skills above his head which would be even more damaging without a couple of defenders hanging off him, he has skills at ground level and he has precise disposal skills off both feet.

You use your best players where they can have most impact on the result of a game.

And you do not close off options just because Roo is our best CHF.

You look at other options, and you develop other options and it may just be that settled a line out from goal, and able to move furher around the ground without needing to contest the ruck contests against guys who are 10 or 15 kgs heavier than him, and taller, may be the making of Kosi.

And, in the absence of our best mid-fielder, Roo may prove even more damaging because of the type of player he is.

Can I remind you, Plugger 66, that Richmond put Richardson on a wing and he very nearly won a Brownlow.

Their best full forward and their best CHF nearly pulls a Brownlow from a wing.

And it forced others to stand up in attack.

That is what we require at St Kilda.

So Richo nearly won the brownlow. Well we better move Rooy so he can win the brownlow. I have no doubt that Rooy playing forward is better for the Saints than going anywhere near the wing. Do you go to the footy or at least watch on TV. Did you see his last 10 games. He was the best forward in the competition in the last 10 games. But I suppose we should move him to the middle because he may do alright. He may not either and he is not great with ball around his knees but lets try it anyway so Kosi can go forward. And I forgot so we dont rely on Rooy kicking most of the goals.

Anyway nice to start a discussion talking about me and the AFL. And then to lie, yes lie about me saying we have a raft of dud players. Just find one quote, yes one on me saying that we have even one dud player who played at the club this year. The one thing I try not to do is have a go at individuals.

Of course you should try things but moving our best player from his best position isnt one of them.

[Bernard Shakey]

congratulations you are the saintsational troll of the year by a landslide, you have done your self proud & next year you will have back to back titles youre a champion I think i will call you "clanga"

Thank you.

Pity you missed 2007, I could be in line for a threepeet.

[st.byron]

Im confused, you want high concessions for him but your'e saying his on field performance has been poor for 2 years, so what club is going to give you a high pick for a habitual poor performer .

1. No club is going to give up an established gun for Koschitzke. That's what it would take for me to think it was a worthwhile trade but it's not going to happen. So most likely he'll stay a Saint.
2. I think it would be premature to trade him. He's 197cm and in the middle of his career. Hard to replace. Needs to seriously lift his output though.
3. So on balance as I've said all along, I don't advocate trading him.

That's pretty straight forward is it not.

4. Let's all stop blowing sunshine up his clacker about what a great player he is. He isn't. He's struggling to make a consistent impact and needs to improve significantly.

Is that clear?