Why have we never been successful

[plugger66]

They may have won but my mum lost a brother and I never met an uncle. Just shut up you idiot.

lol - my father was badly wounded in New Guinea.

You brought it up and then get all precious.

What a complete fool you are.

Really one of the lowest intelligence halfwits ever to grace us with their blatherings.

Read some threads fool. Ledgendary brought it up moron but I suppose if you have no idea then you have no idea.

You used the analogy you dcikhead

Oh thats right only you can use the anology but if someone else show you up for the gargantuan moron halfwit you are you get all precious.

Fair dinkum you are a disgrace. I didn't mention your uncle. I would sully any diggers memory. You used your family on the internet to try and score points, not knowing anybody elses family history.

I find that a disgrace and I would be ashamed to use my family insuch a way, but to each their own I guess.

Everyone has a history in their family. My father my uncles, both my brothers in wars.

You can stick you high and mighty hypocritical attitude up your arse, you precious princess

F*** I feel dirty talking to someone as challenge intellectually as you.

just piss off and dont respond to my posts in future you stupid troll.

just piss off.

You win. First prize is the most stupid person here. Well done moron. Luckily for you the rules dont say brain dead people cannot post otherwise you wouldnt be able to write more crap. the thread is fair enough if you dont like dont read anymore threads I start. To hard for you I will give you an email site. www.uoflittlebrains.com.. Now get your other internet friends to abuse me instead of answering a resonable thread. Bye and like you said I will not hear from you again.

[bigcarl]

good, stable, inspired and passionate leadership from the top down is what we have lacked for much of our history.

in our greatest era, the '60s and early '70s we had three great st kilda men - president graham huggins, legendary club secretary ian drake and coach allan jeans - running the club.

the leadership stability and direction they provided yielded a premiershp and with a bit of luck would have netted two or three.

this is the reason i was shattered when butterss and gt could no longer work together.

had they been able to sort out their differences i thought we could have been in for a really exciting era over the next decade with them at the helm.

rb had the club performing well financially and gt had a young, exciting developmental list playing finals in three successive seasons.

ross and the new administration have done a capable job of trying to right the ship, but, i feel the instability caused by the GT sacking might mean that the core of the current group never plays together in a premiership.

i'd be delighted to be proved wrong though.

[Baldock Rules]

The ANZACS failed too ... does it make us any less proud?


Doing the best with the resources you have, inspiring loyalty amongst tens of thousands of fans, displaying courage and leadership and strength ... those are qualities to be admired in any walk of life.

They are qualities that the St Kilda Football Club embodies, regardless of success or failure.

That's why we're proud to be members.

Amen and very well said

[SaintWal]

In My opinion - Gulp

We suffer from Poor Me Syndrome. PMS as otherwise Known

We have always been a poor club in the dollar sense so we have always been easy pickings from the bigger clubs. IE Players go to Carlton, Collingwood or go from the Saints because of the dollar and the lure of success. This really became the culture of the competition after the Saints most successful era of the 60's. During our poorest periods from this time we became a team that blamed the scapegoat and the biggest one was always the coach. Okay that is history. Enter the draft Era.

Suddenly it was harder to stuff up, the competition dictated through the draft that you get the best players. We stuffed up early in trading as a lot of clubs did but we are getting better, maybe through public pressure more than anything else. The problem is the culture of the Saints IMO is self defeating. We have no patience, we want success now. If we do not get that immediate success the pressure is brought to bear. RL was only two wins ahead of extreme media and internal club pressure, make no mistake. It is time to settle the ship, focus, and set the goals that we all desire.

This administration maybe the right one. What I want is for them to tell us, the public and the club where their goals are and where we are going as a club.

It is one thing to have a great training base. But is that where SaintWal, Felixleo, Buckets, and all Saints "passionate" supporters are going to have a beer and get together to follow this team. I say this because I am lucky enough to remember the Saints Social Club back in the eighties and remember what it actually did. Bring Supporters together.

Thoughts?

[WayneJudson42]

In My opinion - Gulp

We suffer from Poor Me Syndrome. PMS as otherwise Known

We have always been a poor club in the dollar sense so we have always been easy pickings from the bigger clubs. IE Players go to Carlton, Collingwood or go from the Saints because of the dollar and the lure of success. This really became the culture of the competition after the Saints most successful era of the 60's. During our poorest periods from this time we became a team that blamed the scapegoat and the biggest one was always the coach. Okay that is history. Enter the draft Era.

Suddenly it was harder to stuff up, the competition dictated through the draft that you get the best players. We stuffed up early in trading as a lot of clubs did but we are getting better, maybe through public pressure more than anything else. The problem is the culture of the Saints IMO is self defeating. We have no patience, we want success now. If we do not get that immediate success the pressure is brought to bear. RL was only two wins ahead of extreme media and internal club pressure, make no mistake. It is time to settle the ship, focus, and set the goals that we all desire.

This administration maybe the right one. What I want is for them to tell us, the public and the club where their goals are and where we are going as a club.

It is one thing to have a great training base. But is that where SaintWal, Felixleo, Buckets, and all Saints "passionate" supporters are going to have a beer and get together to follow this team. I say this because I am lucky enough to remember the Saints Social Club back in the eighties and remember what it actually did. Bring Supporters together.

Thoughts?

A training base is just a training base. You mentioned the Social Club in the 80's. I gues it lost relevance when we moved to WAverly, and once again when we moved to Docklands.

The other issue is that the SC is now a revenue raising pokie place.

I think also that people's lifestyles have changed in the way they socialize these days.

Mind you, if you're inclned to watch training and have aberr, it shouldn't be a problem. But AFL social clubs ain't what they used to be.

[WayneJudson42]

good, stable, inspired and passionate leadership from the top down is what we have lacked for much of our history.

in our greatest era, the '60s and early '70s we had three great st kilda men - president graham huggins, legendary club secretary ian drake and coach allan jeans - running the club.

the leadership stability and direction they provided yielded a premiershp and with a bit of luck would have netted two or three.

this is the reason i was shattered when butterss and gt could no longer work together.

had they been able to sort out their differences i thought we could have been in for a really exciting era over the next decade with them at the helm.

rb had the club performing well financially and gt had a young, exciting developmental list playing finals in three successive seasons.

ross and the new administration have done a capable job of trying to right the ship, but, i feel the instability caused by the GT sacking might mean that the core of the current group never plays together in a premiership.

i'd be delighted to be proved wrong though.

??? Westaway is a RWB thru and thru.. as is Burke and Thompson.

The whole argument of have true club men doesn't sit well with me.

Here's why...

Our club has a history of underachieving. So why not bring in "outside" people who have achieved at successful clubs as players / coaches/ admin... or all 3?

There's an old saying I use with my clients:

What you know, has got you to where you are today. So if you want go higher, then you need to learn more.

In our case, we need the input of non-club people in order to learn more.

Lindsay Fox was a sainter, as was Graeme Gellie and Ross Smith... as was Plympton.

Look at most clubs... thomson is a bomber, Clarkson a Kanga, Malthouse a tiger... Wallace a hawk... Eade a Hawk. Craig??

[SaintWal]

In My opinion - Gulp

We suffer from Poor Me Syndrome. PMS as otherwise Known

We have always been a poor club in the dollar sense so we have always been easy pickings from the bigger clubs. IE Players go to Carlton, Collingwood or go from the Saints because of the dollar and the lure of success. This really became the culture of the competition after the Saints most successful era of the 60's. During our poorest periods from this time we became a team that blamed the scapegoat and the biggest one was always the coach. Okay that is history. Enter the draft Era.

Suddenly it was harder to stuff up, the competition dictated through the draft that you get the best players. We stuffed up early in trading as a lot of clubs did but we are getting better, maybe through public pressure more than anything else. The problem is the culture of the Saints IMO is self defeating. We have no patience, we want success now. If we do not get that immediate success the pressure is brought to bear. RL was only two wins ahead of extreme media and internal club pressure, make no mistake. It is time to settle the ship, focus, and set the goals that we all desire.

This administration maybe the right one. What I want is for them to tell us, the public and the club where their goals are and where we are going as a club.

It is one thing to have a great training base. But is that where SaintWal, Felixleo, Buckets, and all Saints "passionate" supporters are going to have a beer and get together to follow this team. I say this because I am lucky enough to remember the Saints Social Club back in the eighties and remember what it actually did. Bring Supporters together.

Thoughts?

A training base is just a training base. You mentioned the Social Club in the 80's. I gues it lost relevance when we moved to WAverly, and once again when we moved to Docklands.

The other issue is that the SC is now a revenue raising pokie place.

I think also that people's lifestyles have changed in the way they socialize these days.

Mind you, if you're inclned to watch training and have aberr, it shouldn't be a problem. But AFL social clubs ain't what they used to be.

My Point exactly WJ42.

A training base is fantastic when the club is going well. Unfortunately history tells us that you cannot be up the top every year and at that point the clubs always rely on the stalwarts like presumably you, and defintely me to prop them up. I believe the biggest problem facing clubs at the moment is the stints on the bottom of the ladder because they no longer are able to self generate profits because of these very reasons.

Melbourne is a great example, Hawthorn was one of the first.

And why do Syney and the the Lions fear the bottom of the ladder? They have no Soul! Clubs like the Saints saw refuge in the Pokies without looking at where the club was truly heading. Reliant on success, dependant on the AFL when tough times fall, and trust me it will fall.

[WayneJudson42]

In My opinion - Gulp

We suffer from Poor Me Syndrome. PMS as otherwise Known

We have always been a poor club in the dollar sense so we have always been easy pickings from the bigger clubs. IE Players go to Carlton, Collingwood or go from the Saints because of the dollar and the lure of success. This really became the culture of the competition after the Saints most successful era of the 60's. During our poorest periods from this time we became a team that blamed the scapegoat and the biggest one was always the coach. Okay that is history. Enter the draft Era.

Suddenly it was harder to stuff up, the competition dictated through the draft that you get the best players. We stuffed up early in trading as a lot of clubs did but we are getting better, maybe through public pressure more than anything else. The problem is the culture of the Saints IMO is self defeating. We have no patience, we want success now. If we do not get that immediate success the pressure is brought to bear. RL was only two wins ahead of extreme media and internal club pressure, make no mistake. It is time to settle the ship, focus, and set the goals that we all desire.

This administration maybe the right one. What I want is for them to tell us, the public and the club where their goals are and where we are going as a club.

It is one thing to have a great training base. But is that where SaintWal, Felixleo, Buckets, and all Saints "passionate" supporters are going to have a beer and get together to follow this team. I say this because I am lucky enough to remember the Saints Social Club back in the eighties and remember what it actually did. Bring Supporters together.

Thoughts?

A training base is just a training base. You mentioned the Social Club in the 80's. I gues it lost relevance when we moved to WAverly, and once again when we moved to Docklands.

The other issue is that the SC is now a revenue raising pokie place.

I think also that people's lifestyles have changed in the way they socialize these days.

Mind you, if you're inclned to watch training and have aberr, it shouldn't be a problem. But AFL social clubs ain't what they used to be.

My Point exactly WJ42.

A training base is fantastic when the club is going well. Unfortunately history tells us that you cannot be up the top every year and at that point the clubs always rely on the stalwarts like presumably you, and defintely me to prop them up. I believe the biggest problem facing clubs at the moment is the stints on the bottom of the ladder because they no longer are able to self generate profits because of these very reasons.

Melbourne is a great example, Hawthorn was one of the first.

And why do Syney and the the Lions fear the bottom of the ladder? They have no Soul! Clubs like the Saints saw refuge in the Pokies without looking at where the club was truly heading. Reliant on success, dependant on the AFL when tough times fall, and trust me it will fall.

I see where you're coming from... but footy as we knew it no longer exists. Witness how many GF seats are sold as packages and allocated to the corps.

Sign of the times my friend. Thing is that atraining facility should lead to on field success, which in turn fuels memberships, sponsorships, a attendances. All critical to the survival of a club.

I'm not as down on it as you, coz I know we've seen worse, and will survive and drop down the ladder.

Melbourne is a basket case, and to be honest, it faces the same problem as Sydney with their demographic supporters.

Melbourne has struggled even when it was competitive. It was only 11 years ago that Gutnick came to the rescue. And they made a GF in 2000.

I don't think we're at that stage with our supporters just yet.

[Richter]

it's about the struggle and the honour in plowing on when things get tough...

Something T.Barker knew something about.....

............

The rest of us will just go on supporting the saints because we bleed for the St Kilda Football Club come hell or high water

Strength through loyalty .....

What wonderful sentiments.

Supporters like you make me proud to be a Sainter.

[SaintWal]

Maybe a Kindred soul WJ42.

But if the club is going to rely on Web sites and chat room like this to generate funds then they are sadly mistaken.

You sound like you are in business. if you are you will realise that corporate dollar spending is being tightened at an alarming rate. Clubs that rely solely on this form of revenue will, again IMO, Struggle.

The words that haunt me from this year were from Archie Fraser on mmm before a game about mid year.

When quizzed about the members reaction to the supposed "deplorable" game plan at the time, inferring that members were going to drop away like flies, Archies reaction was aloof and pathetic. In his words, not quoted verbatim, "We have just signed three year sponsorship deals with Jeldwen" and the like.

This was not the response I was looking for, I can tell you.

[WayneJudson42]

Maybe a Kindred soul WJ42.

But if the club is going to rely on Web sites and chat room like this to generate funds then they are sadly mistaken.

You sound like you are in business. if you are you will realise that corporate dollar spending is being tightened at an alarming rate. Clubs that rely solely on this form of revenue will, again IMO, Struggle.

The words that haunt me from this year were from Archie Fraser on mmm before a game about mid year.

When quizzed about the members reaction to the supposed "deplorable" game plan at the time, inferring that members were going to drop away like flies, Archies reaction was aloof and pathetic. In his words, not quoted verbatim, "We have just signed three year sponsorship deals with Jeldwen" and the like.

This was not the response I was looking for, I can tell you.

Not defending AF... but sometimes, you gotta tow the partyine. Imagine if he agreed. The media would be all over us etc.

The game plan looks ok when they play it properly.

[SaintWal]

Point taken.

It was more the disregard for members that bewildered us

[st_Trav_ofWA]

why do we fail i ask myself this question very often when i look back at how the Crows in such a short time can win a flag then WC winning three ?port being dominant all those years ??? it was once said that at st Kilda its always been "indecision followed by incorrect decision " our history is littered with players who were the best in the land we had blokes who could win games off their own boots we had out and out stars ... but flags arnet won by teams with stars .. the truely great teams have players from 1 to 22 who week in week out perform to the higest standard we have always relyed on individual brilliance not a full team effort ..im only 26 so i cant remember every game but for all the greats we had in the late 80's early 90's , the Winmars , Plugger ,Buckets , Harves , burkie , Aussie, Spud ..... it was the supporting cast that we fell away very quickly even today we have our out and out stars then after that its bottom range players yet teams like Geelong have 22 good players and a few stars . ?

[bobmurray]

That's the issue arguing with idiots - they just bring you down to their level until you become one.

Having said that I won't bother to argue.

Enjoy your evening!

[SaintWal]

Answered your own question St Trav. Champion Team will always beat a team of champions.

97 was a really good shot. Stan IMO was out coached but Blight really had a bit of luck on his side as well, one unknown kicks five and a champion kicks five in a qtr.

[rodgerfox]

These threads shiit me to tears.


We started as a junior club over 100 years ago that was literally just making up the numbers.

For about 90 of those years, if you weren't a wealthy club in a suburb or region that was financially secure and/or happened to be laden with young footballing talent - you just couldn't succeed.

The VFL was a great comp which pitted suburb Vs. suburb - tribe Vs. tribe. But there are good reasons it got the arse. It couldn't survive, and club's couldn't survive because it was a pure case of 'the rich get richer'.

Have money - buy players - perform well. Perform well - get more money - buy better players - perform even better.


20 years ago the comp was evened out (Officially it was evened out, unofficially it was heavily weighted in the interest of AFL expansion).

It is not, nor has it ever been, a competition where you all start on an even playing field and it simply comes down to whoever does the best job wins.


In the past 20 years, which is the only period of time worth taking into consideration when talking about the success of AFL clubs, we've been Ok.
Pretty good even.

Not the best, and not a 'success' as such. But certainly not the tragic losers everyone - including our own 'faithful' keep sprouting.

In this time, only about 9 clubs have won flags. 5 of them being 'interstate' clubs with an entire state to support them.

Not many more clubs than that have even played in a GF in this time.


I for one am proud of our club. Since the comp got fair dinkum, we have less off-field issues than most, we have less Board turmoil than others, we have played more finals than many, played in more GFs than many and are a top 4 club.


I think our biggest problem is that we see threads like this all the time whinging about how much of a loser club we are. Its lamost like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We just came off a season where we're still adjusting to a new coach and a new bunch of players - yet we finished 4th and legitimately only have 2 clubs clearly ahead of us.

Instead of looking at it as a season above what other clubs would have done, we see this whining about 'ohhhhh, I want a flag', 'oohhhhhh poor me, I follow this shiit carter of a footy club'.

Well, here's some advice for you - piiss off and follow a 'successful' club if it bothers you so much.

I for one am proud of the Saints, and am proud to support them. Regardless of who thinks we're underachievers, losers or whatever.


Let me ask you this....

If the Gold Coast team enter the comp, get no draft concessions or any favours at all from the AFL, start with a junior list because they don't have any money to pay players and it syats this way for 100 years - how do you think they'll fair for the first 80 or so years?

[bigcarl]

good, stable, inspired and passionate leadership from the top down is what we have lacked for much of our history.

in our greatest era, the '60s and early '70s we had three great st kilda men - president graham huggins, legendary club secretary ian drake and coach allan jeans - running the club.

the leadership stability and direction they provided yielded a premiershp and with a bit of luck would have netted two or three.

this is the reason i was shattered when butterss and gt could no longer work together.

had they been able to sort out their differences i thought we could have been in for a really exciting era over the next decade with them at the helm.

rb had the club performing well financially and gt had a young, exciting developmental list playing finals in three successive seasons.

ross and the new administration have done a capable job of trying to right the ship, but, i feel the instability caused by the GT sacking might mean that the core of the current group never plays together in a premiership.

i'd be delighted to be proved wrong though.

??? Westaway is a RWB thru and thru.. as is Burke and Thompson.

The whole argument of have true club men doesn't sit well with me.

Here's why...

Our club has a history of underachieving. So why not bring in "outside" people who have achieved at successful clubs as players / coaches/ admin... or all 3?

There's an old saying I use with my clients:

What you know, has got you to where you are today. So if you want go higher, then you need to learn more.

In our case, we need the input of non-club people in order to learn more.

Lindsay Fox was a sainter, as was Graeme Gellie and Ross Smith... as was Plympton.

Look at most clubs... thomson is a bomber, Clarkson a Kanga, Malthouse a tiger... Wallace a hawk... Eade a Hawk. Craig??

i think you're missing my point which is we haven't been successful because we've lacked good, stable leadership for much of our history.

[St. Luke]

In reality the sport is fairly young. Let's see how many flags we get in the next 100yrs The others would have become complacent over that period of time. Nothing to say we won't be the first club to win 5x back to back flags in the future

The flag issue isn't really an issue with me. Who honestly cares! The fact is, as a club we're not going anywhere, which is a damnsight more than I can say about some other clubs and their "stability". We're a competitive unit, we have a very large and faithful following and with the current changes to the club over the last 10yrs I know we're on the right track to turning our fortunes around.

I can honestly say this, Rewoildt won't be leaving the Saints without winning a flag with us. It's what he himself has claimed and what I truly believe. We're in safe hands! The culture HAS changed at St Kilda!

[WayneJudson42]

These threads shiit me to tears.


We started as a junior club over 100 years ago that was literally just making up the numbers.

For about 90 of those years, if you weren't a wealthy club in a suburb or region that was financially secure and/or happened to be laden with young footballing talent - you just couldn't succeed.

The VFL was a great comp which pitted suburb Vs. suburb - tribe Vs. tribe. But there are good reasons it got the arse. It couldn't survive, and club's couldn't survive because it was a pure case of 'the rich get richer'.

Have money - buy players - perform well. Perform well - get more money - buy better players - perform even better.


20 years ago the comp was evened out (Officially it was evened out, unofficially it was heavily weighted in the interest of AFL expansion).

It is not, nor has it ever been, a competition where you all start on an even playing field and it simply comes down to whoever does the best job wins.


In the past 20 years, which is the only period of time worth taking into consideration when talking about the success of AFL clubs, we've been Ok.
Pretty good even.

Not the best, and not a 'success' as such. But certainly not the tragic losers everyone - including our own 'faithful' keep sprouting.

In this time, only about 9 clubs have won flags. 5 of them being 'interstate' clubs with an entire state to support them.

Not many more clubs than that have even played in a GF in this time.


I for one am proud of our club. Since the comp got fair dinkum, we have less off-field issues than most, we have less Board turmoil than others, we have played more finals than many, played in more GFs than many and are a top 4 club.


I think our biggest problem is that we see threads like this all the time whinging about how much of a loser club we are. Its lamost like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We just came off a season where we're still adjusting to a new coach and a new bunch of players - yet we finished 4th and legitimately only have 2 clubs clearly ahead of us.

Instead of looking at it as a season above what other clubs would have done, we see this whining about 'ohhhhh, I want a flag', 'oohhhhhh poor me, I follow this shiit carter of a footy club'.

Well, here's some advice for you - piiss off and follow a 'successful' club if it bothers you so much.

I for one am proud of the Saints, and am proud to support them. Regardless of who thinks we're underachievers, losers or whatever.


Let me ask you this....

If the Gold Coast team enter the comp, get no draft concessions or any favours at all from the AFL, start with a junior list because they don't have any money to pay players and it syats this way for 100 years - how do you think they'll fair for the first 80 or so years?

Well cut my legs off at the knees and call me a tri-pod...

I agree totally with what you just posted.

Well summed up.

It's an interesting point you raise (well it is to me) re AFL v VFL. All these establishment clubs going on about their history and success... which was mostly during the VFL.

If that's the case, then surely Port is the most successful AFL team because of all the flags they won in the SANFL.

IMO, all this 1 flag in 100 years is bunk AFAIAC.

You have to draw the line somehwere, when and restart the clock. The question is when?

If you look at 1987 when WCE entered the comp, then you have...

Bris 3 flags
Bombers 3 flags
Pies 1 flag
WCE 3 flags
Cats 1 flag
Hawks 1 flag
Swans 1 flag
Crows 1 flag
Pt 1 flag
Blues?

Like you said Rodge, we haven't done too badly in this modern era, given where we've come from v the resources that powerful clubs and interstate clubs have.

FFS, get us 40,000+ members on a regular basis and watch us fly.

If our supporters want to know why, then they should take a long hard look at themselves if they don't renew their memberships (assuming they can affod it).

The % of members who do not re-sign are staggering.

Look at the Kangas... their supporters do jack until the club is on the brink.

End of rant.

p.s. If you're in tears when you sh!!t... then try adding more fibre to your diet, or cut down on the chillies.

[St. Luke]

Brilliant Rogerfox! Well said!

[markp]

Perfectly summed up Rodge... a most peculiar breed is the self-loathing St Kilda supporter.

[brown-coat]

We had the 2004 premiership in our hands until the crowd ran on the field and disrupted our amazing burst of play.

Then a deliberate out of bounds was not payed against Chad Cornes in the final minutes in our forwardline.

..in our hands.

[WayneJudson42]

We had the 2004 premiership in our hands until the crowd ran on the field and disrupted our amazing burst of play.

Then a deliberate out of bounds was not payed against Chad Cornes in the final minutes in our forwardline.

..in our hands.

Did we? As I recall, we didn't even make the Grand Final.

[joffaboy]

We had the 2004 premiership in our hands until the crowd ran on the field and disrupted our amazing burst of play.

Then a deliberate out of bounds was not payed against Chad Cornes in the final minutes in our forwardline.

..in our hands.

Did we? As I recall, we didn't even make the Grand Final.

yeah this kind of revisionist history always makes me laugh.

We got beaten by 8 goals in about R20 by Brisbane and then got flogged by 80 points in the first semi by Brisbane. Two floggings in 6 weeks by the triple premiership team.

Burt all we had to do was turn up on GF day 2004 to win according to some. lolololololol

We couldn't even turn up. Thats the biggest problem. We couldn't even see if this crappola had even a smidgeon of truth in it.

We weren't there.

Oh and RF - well put.

[bob__71]

Soft...very soft