Why have we never been successful

[Dal_Santos_Gal]

We are not successful because we like to trade of early picks for older players and then when we do have a decent young kid EG: ARMO , its lets trade him.

That thread about possible trade deals for armo is dead set sickening.

[spert]

The club has suffered in its history from bad administration, poor recruiting, the willingness of the board and supporters to accept second-rate efforts, and also lack of leadership and discipline through various rungs of the club. We saw the positive effects of the board and coach displaying a united direction under RB and GT, but we can't do anything about two ridiculous egos colliding with the obvious bad results. Time moves on, and we have lost another prelim final. I feel RL more than GT has a good idea on what we need from a playing group in order to succeed, and will probably go out and get the right people, and let go of the ones who haven't come up to scratch. I want to see a core of young players being groomed for success, I want to see more rookies coming through and more Rising Star nominees next season. I sincerely hope Westaway and his board are demanding better results, as we the supporters should from the board at every turn. Lets look forward to jumping a few more rungs up the ladder in 2009!

[plugger66]

We are not successful because we like to trade of early picks for older players and then when we do have a decent young kid EG: ARMO , its lets trade him.

That thread about possible trade deals for armo is dead set sickening.

I wish it was that simple but trading has only been in 20 years.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Was listening to the Hawks CEO today and he was saying they have won 9 flags since 1961 and he also mentioned the nearly folded 10 years ago but have since regrouped and are back in the GF.

We on the other hand have won one flag in 111 years and apart from the SOS campaign we havent looked like merging or folding in the last 40 years. it must have something to do with our culture why we havent been able to win the big prize.

1997 favourites and failed. 2005 favourites in the PF and failed and of course other chances. We have had many good draft picks in the last 8 years and even though we have had a degree of success we missed out when it mattered. Geelong have never had a top 3 pick and yes they have had good Father Son but even that is less than our top picks.

Are we just happy with a little success. I have no idea. In the 90's we had some of the greatest players to ever play AFL footy and couldnt win the big one. Has anyone got any ideas what is wrong with our club and what can we as supporters do to help this club win the ultimate prize.

refreshing and honest as usual

supporters can only change the attitudes of fellow supporters and an avenue like this is a decent start

[iwantmeseats]

nothing will change as long as westaway is "thrilled" with this year and RL.

Lord have mercy.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

what annoys me is that people think that we reached a prelim...thats sooooo good...we came 3/4th...wow...

we still failed....

i am a strong believer that ross lyon is the asshole we need to at least change a near enough is good enough culture...look what happened after 05...we nearly made it again...we looked good but alas we fell short and failed big time...spent two years doing nothing really and only looked a good team in the second half of this year

football these days is a business...this club (its supporters) still have room for sentiment and bring up 'wrong-doings' or instances that create what if's...i.e goose's love tap...the gehrig running onto the ground after the ton in the prelim...the fixturing...whispers in the sky

these are things that categorize most st kilda supporters as loosers...other supporters from other clubs don't harp on about conspiracy theories and being dudded...nope not even fremantle...

carlton were handed down big punishments due to rorting the salary cap...fair enough they have taken their medicine and gone on with it...even as supporters they still gave the rest of the football world the big f off...if it were st kilda the majority would whinge about the afl dudding us...living in la la land...being the losers that most of you are

harsh but imo true

[Saints Premiers 2008]

nothing will change as long as westaway is "thrilled" with this year and RL.

Lord have mercy.

westaway will lead us to the promised land...i would be not so much thrilled with this year but happy at the improvements on players that have the ability to do/and should turn games on their head...

[JeffDunne]

We played in a competition that was skewed against us for the better part of 100 years.

A compeition that rewarded success with success.

No doubt to be successful as a club you need to do a lot of things right but some of the simplistic clap-trap in this thread really makes me wonder about some of our so-called supporters.

Even when the competition introduced equalisation measures, it was the better part of a decade before clubs actually played by those rules too.

Over the past decade and a bit we haven't been far off it and we were starting from a long way back compared to some other franchises . . . sorry I meant clubs.

[plugger66]

We played in a competition that was skewed against us for the better part of 100 years.

A compeition that rewarded success with success.

No doubt to be successful as a club you need to do a lot of things right but some of the simplistic clap-trap in this thread really makes me wonder about some of our so-called supporters.

Even when the competition introduced equalisation measures, it was the better part of a decade before clubs actually played by those rules too.

Over the past decade and a bit we haven't been far off it and we were starting from a long way back compared to some other franchises . . . sorry I meant clubs.

That sort of response is the reason we fail. You are prepared to blame other for 111 years of failure. You really must have a good memory if you remember what happened in the early 1900's.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

We played in a competition that was skewed against us for the better part of 100 years.

A compeition that rewarded success with success.

No doubt to be successful as a club you need to do a lot of things right but some of the simplistic clap-trap in this thread really makes me wonder about some of our so-called supporters.

Even when the competition introduced equalisation measures, it was the better part of a decade before clubs actually played by those rules too.

Over the past decade and a bit we haven't been far off it and we were starting from a long way back compared to some other franchises . . . sorry I meant clubs.

That sort of response is the reason we fail. You are prepared to blame other for 111 years of failure. You really must have a good memory if you remember what happened in the early 1900's.

again the same loser-ish response...this doesnt create a club full of confidence in themselves...it doesnt create arrogance needed to succeed

but oh yes...blame the past 111 years cause they dudded us complety...

[JeffDunne]

We played in a competition that was skewed against us for the better part of 100 years.

A compeition that rewarded success with success.

No doubt to be successful as a club you need to do a lot of things right but some of the simplistic clap-trap in this thread really makes me wonder about some of our so-called supporters.

Even when the competition introduced equalisation measures, it was the better part of a decade before clubs actually played by those rules too.

Over the past decade and a bit we haven't been far off it and we were starting from a long way back compared to some other franchises . . . sorry I meant clubs.

That sort of response is the reason we fail.

The sort of simplistic b/s I'd expect from a f/wit.

There is no single reason why we have been unsuccessful as much as you like to believe it plugger.

You are prepared to blame other for 111 years of failure. You really must have a good memory if you remember what happened in the early 1900's.

Jesus man, you are seriously one pathetic individual.

Try reading a bit about the clubs history and then maybe try this discussion.

Your simplistic generalisations show your lack of any real substance (and I'm not just talking this thread).

[bob__71]

We played in a competition that was skewed against us for the better part of 100 years.

A compeition that rewarded success with success.

No doubt to be successful as a club you need to do a lot of things right but some of the simplistic clap-trap in this thread really makes me wonder about some of our so-called supporters.

Even when the competition introduced equalisation measures, it was the better part of a decade before clubs actually played by those rules too.

Over the past decade and a bit we haven't been far off it and we were starting from a long way back compared to some other franchises . . . sorry I meant clubs.

You summed it all up there Jeffe we were totally hopeless in a system that rewarded success with success....we were total losers. We are only minorly less hopeless now equalization has been introduced.

Hawthorne didnt want to be a bottom club, so they made a change to being a power club. Its a will thing.

[jackal]

Clearly it is poor administration that has cost the club in previous generations.

I think we have come some way to rectifying this which is great.

Actually I decided a while back that if I lose confidence in the clubs administration that I would not renew my membership. If I wanted to give to a charity I would prefer to save sick kids or the environment.
I have remained a member though, as I feel that steps have been taken and the club has played finals in 4 of the last 5 seasons which is better than most. We definately need to improve in this area still but they have come along way in the last 20 years.

One final note about Geelong...have a look at their CEO. He's been the best operator in the comp for a long while now and the most important man at that club. And this is not for what he has done per se (which is a lot btw) but for what he has allowed others to do.

[TimeToShineFellas]

Those who embrace mediocrity will never succeed.

I think we as a Club do more "hero worshipping" than a lot of other Clubs (maybe bar Collingwood), focusing more upon individuals and their feats than the Club as a whole. I can't think of another set of fans who put more emphasis on individual awards than team awards (or that's what I read into it)

I reckon it might also have to do with the classic case of the individual being bigger than the Club, and let's face it we've had a fair share of them in the past. How many times would we see headlines about players dummy-spitting and then getting their own way.

And probably the factor of those in power treating the place like their little play-thing doesn't help either!

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Those who embrace mediocrity will never succeed.

I think we as a Club do more "hero worshipping" than a lot of other Clubs (maybe bar Collingwood), focusing more upon individuals and their feats than the Club as a whole. I can't think of another set of fans who put more emphasis on individual awards than team awards (or that's what I read into it)

I reckon it might also have to do with the classic case of the individual being bigger than the Club, and let's face it we've had a fair share of them in the past. How many times would we see headlines about players dummy-spitting and then getting their own way.

And probably the factor of those in power treating the place like their little play-thing doesn't help either!

although he never wanted it this way its almost like robert harvey was bigger than he club

that is why im happy he has gracefully retired in the manor he deserved

*preparing to be flamed*

[JeffDunne]

Clubs prior to the 90's guaranteed success by ensuring they had people in a position of influence to swing decisions in their favour.

Hawthorn were no different.

In fact I'd say the Hawks period of dominance had as much to do with fortuitous re-zoning than anything else. North had someone with deep pockets that used a fortuitous change in the rules to get them into the premiership hunt. Had the rule been introduced 5 years earlier or 5 years later they wouldn't have had the success they had in the 70's.

There's a multitude of reasons why St Kilda haven't been unsuccessful but I can safely say a 'loser' mentality of the supporters aint on them.

Why on earth would you support the club if you really believed that?

[plugger66]

We played in a competition that was skewed against us for the better part of 100 years.

A compeition that rewarded success with success.

No doubt to be successful as a club you need to do a lot of things right but some of the simplistic clap-trap in this thread really makes me wonder about some of our so-called supporters.

Even when the competition introduced equalisation measures, it was the better part of a decade before clubs actually played by those rules too.

Over the past decade and a bit we haven't been far off it and we were starting from a long way back compared to some other franchises . . . sorry I meant clubs.

That sort of response is the reason we fail.

The sort of simplistic b/s I'd expect from a f/wit.

There is no single reason why we have been unsuccessful as much as you like to believe it plugger.

You are prepared to blame other for 111 years of failure. You really must have a good memory if you remember what happened in the early 1900's.

Jesus man, you are seriously one pathetic individual.

Try reading a bit about the clubs history and then maybe try this discussion.

Your simplistic generalisations show your lack of any real substance (and I'm not just talking this thread).

You really surprise me how dumb you are. Did I blame one reason or are you number one in the I dont get anything. I know the history of the club and your point is?

[JeffDunne]

Those who embrace mediocrity will never succeed.

Got any more clichés for us?

I think we as a Club do more "hero worshipping" than a lot of other Clubs (maybe bar Collingwood), focusing more upon individuals and their feats than the Club as a whole. I can't think of another set of fans who put more emphasis on individual awards than team awards (or that's what I read into it)

What complete and utter nonsense.

I guess you missed Carlton supporters crying because Hawthorn wouldn't gift Fev 100 goals?

FFS

I reckon it might also have to do with the classic case of the individual being bigger than the Club, and let's face it we've had a fair share of them in the past. How many times would we see headlines about players dummy-spitting and then getting their own way.

Happens at all clubs.

And probably the factor of those in power treating the place like their little play-thing doesn't help either!

Now you're getting close to one key charastic of traditionally unsuccessful clubs - administrators that want to been seen as the "messiah".

Plymton failed because of it. Butterss failed because of it.

Find me someone that has the passion that isn't after the glory or to further their own ends and I'll show you an administrator that could possibly lead us to success.

[JeffDunne]

You really surprise me how dumb you are.

Coming from a gutter crawler like yourself I'll take that as a compliment.

Did I blame one reason

You attempted to.

or are you number one in the I dont get anything. I know the history of the club and your point is?

Care to rephrase that in english . . . your lordship.

[TimeToShineFellas]

Sorry JD for entering the debate.

Feel better now?

Thought it was an open debate.

Besides it's my two bob's worth mate - there's another cliche for ya!

[JeffDunne]

I have no idea.

You should of stopped there.

[linz]

We played in a competition that was skewed against us for the better part of 100 years.

A compeition that rewarded success with success.

No doubt to be successful as a club you need to do a lot of things right but some of the simplistic clap-trap in this thread really makes me wonder about some of our so-called supporters.

Even when the competition introduced equalisation measures, it was the better part of a decade before clubs actually played by those rules too.

Over the past decade and a bit we haven't been far off it and we were starting from a long way back compared to some other franchises . . . sorry I meant clubs.

I agree with Jeff's slant.
Since the draft has been introduced the saints have been regularly playing in the finals. Unfortunately we haven't won another flag but lets face it; we were within a whisker in 2004.

Before the draft the saints had little chance. Unfortunately money talked far more then than now. (It still talks heaps now though). Sure we had our star players but our bottom 6 players were invariably the bottom 6 players in the league. We tended to praise the individual rather than the team. We won Brownlows without winning flags.

I think Ross Lyon realizes that. We are probably another 3 years away from a flag but let's be patient for a change.

[plugger66]

You really surprise me how dumb you are.

Coming from a gutter crawler like yourself I'll take that as a compliment.

Did I blame one reason

You attempted to.

or are you number one in the I dont get anything. I know the history of the club and your point is?

Care to rephrase that in english . . . your lordship. [/quot

What is my one reason for being unsuccessful. Just one will do. An exact quote. I laugh at you how you take a post personally but as this is the only time anyone bothers to converse with you I should understand more I suppose.

[JeffDunne]

Sorry JD for entering the debate.

Feel better now?

Thought it was an open debate.

WTF?

You posted your opinion - I posted mine.

Sorry if you think blowing wind up your arse is 'an open debate'.

From where I'm from it aint.

Besides it's my two bob's worth mate - there's another cliche for ya!

Don't flatter yourself.

It wasn't worth that.

[TimeToShineFellas]

That's the issue arguing with idiots - they just bring you down to their level until you become one.

Having said that I won't bother to argue.

Enjoy your evening!