Change this week require potential impact player

[older saint]

If any changes are made this week the player we bring in really needs to have the potential to have an impact , ala Gwilt in Adelaide in a one off performace.

Fiora & Birrs will be solid players but not win us the game . M Gardiner is Ruck only never was or will be a FF.

I think C Gardiner out and in Fergusson, played as a half forward. He has a very good mark and COULD kick 3-4 goals in a game which could be the difference in the end, the X factor.
Yes it is a risk but finals see odd players step up.

Apart from that based on Ball not Ok and Blake ok probably keep the same line up as it had worked for the past few weeks.

Thoughts?

[borderbarry]

I thought that Armitage should be the first one considered. He has been in good form in the VFL, better than Birss even. Although you are quite right that Ferguson may be the additional forward we are so badly lacking. Other than him I would try Rafe, but he is probably required down back.

[meher baba]

I'm really such a schmuck. I keep opening up threads expecting to see some interesting and serious discussion, and I find myself reading, for the umpteenth time, inane posts suggesting that the likes of Ferguson, Gardi, Armitage or Allen should be brought into our team for the rest of the finals because they are supposedly going to make a big impact: or, in the case of the last two, because we ought to "give our young players some finals experience".

All four of these guys have played AFL during the season. All four have IMO, looked like they are a significant way below the required standard (Gardi's skills don't, but he moved around the field at glacial speed, suggesting - as he has now confirmed - that his injuries have prevented him from returning to anything remotely near his one time best game).

I would be the first to acknowledge that C Gardiner, McQualter, Eddy and to a less extent Gwilt, Raph and X all have their shortcomings as finals players. None of them would make the Geelong team, and I doubt that they would make any of the other final 8 teams (nor would Kosi on current form, Jones, Blake and perhaps a number of others).

But replacing any of these guys, if they are not injured, with any of Gardi, Ferguson, Allen and Armitage would be a massive risk given that they have shown next to nothing - repeat, next to nothing - at AFL level this season. Selecting any of them again this season would be a "psychic" decision based on a combination of hope and instinct. If Lyon's instincts tell him that any of these guys could deliver on Saturday night (or in subsequent matches, if we get to play any), then fair enough. But the idea that they are "going well" in the VFL has got much to do with it. Geary has been going well in the odd game lately, but Lyon seems to be finished with him for the season.

I really doubt that any poster on this forum would have any idea of what Lyon's instincts are telling him right now about any of these players. And I suspect that his knowledge and logic would be telling him to steer well clear of these four players. Still, Armo and Allen appear to be hovering around the edges, so he might know something that we all don't. But I'm sure it's got nothing to do with any idea that these guys should be given finals experience. And I doubt (and fervently hope) that Lyon would be considering Gardi or Ferguson at this point in time.

On the other hand, I am sure that he is considering Birss and Fiora, both of whom have shown some form at AFL level this season.

To conclude, my message is that - if you are looking for any additional impact in our performance on Saturday - I would think that, like me, you would be looking to see this coming from the players who ran around last weekend: particularly the likes of Schneider, Harves, Kosi, Dal and Joey (all of whom I think will need to contribute a lot more if we are going to knock over the Pies).

[saint patrick]

Birss must play and should never have been dropped...personally would like to see Armo come backin as a grunt player to counter the Swanns,Burns etc

Outs should be Eddy and Macqualter IMO.

[remboy]

You want an impact player? Let's pick Rix and tell him to knock out Thomas, Medhurst, Davis and Cloke. Wouldn't matter if he got suspended for life.

[henno]

If any changes are made this week the player we bring in really needs to have the potential to have an impact , ala Gwilt in Adelaide in a one off performace.

Fiora & Birrs will be solid players but not win us the game . M Gardiner is Ruck only never was or will be a FF.

I think C Gardiner out and in Fergusson, played as a half forward. He has a very good mark and COULD kick 3-4 goals in a game which could be the difference in the end, the X factor.
Yes it is a risk but finals see odd players step up.

Apart from that based on Ball not Ok and Blake ok probably keep the same line up as it had worked for the past few weeks.

Thoughts?

yes ferguson might play alright, but let's not get too ahead of ourselves

his kicking for goal was atrocious agains melbourne, the worst team in the comp.

as memory recalls i think he kicked 3 or 4 behinds and one didnt make the distance. and also 0 goals.

[Winmar7Fan]

I'm really such a schmuck. I keep opening up threads expecting to see some interesting and serious discussion, and I find myself reading, for the umpteenth time, inane posts suggesting that the likes of Ferguson, Gardi, Armitage or Allen should be brought into our team for the rest of the finals because they are supposedly going to make a big impact: or, in the case of the last two, because we ought to "give our young players some finals experience".

All four of these guys have played AFL during the season. All four have IMO, looked like they are a significant way below the required standard (Gardi's skills don't, but he moved around the field at glacial speed, suggesting - as he has now confirmed - that his injuries have prevented him from returning to anything remotely near his one time best game).

I would be the first to acknowledge that C Gardiner, McQualter, Eddy and to a less extent Gwilt, Raph and X all have their shortcomings as finals players. None of them would make the Geelong team, and I doubt that they would make any of the other final 8 teams (nor would Kosi on current form, Jones, Blake and perhaps a number of others).

But replacing any of these guys, if they are not injured, with any of Gardi, Ferguson, Allen and Armitage would be a massive risk given that they have shown next to nothing - repeat, next to nothing - at AFL level this season. Selecting any of them again this season would be a "psychic" decision based on a combination of hope and instinct. If Lyon's instincts tell him that any of these guys could deliver on Saturday night (or in subsequent matches, if we get to play any), then fair enough. But the idea that they are "going well" in the VFL has got much to do with it. Geary has been going well in the odd game lately, but Lyon seems to be finished with him for the season.

I really doubt that any poster on this forum would have any idea of what Lyon's instincts are telling him right now about any of these players. And I suspect that his knowledge and logic would be telling him to steer well clear of these four players. Still, Armo and Allen appear to be hovering around the edges, so he might know something that we all don't. But I'm sure it's got nothing to do with any idea that these guys should be given finals experience. And I doubt (and fervently hope) that Lyon would be considering Gardi or Ferguson at this point in time.

On the other hand, I am sure that he is considering Birss and Fiora, both of whom have shown some form at AFL level this season.

To conclude, my message is that - if you are looking for any additional impact in our performance on Saturday - I would think that, like me, you would be looking to see this coming from the players who ran around last weekend: particularly the likes of Schneider, Harves, Kosi, Dal and Joey (all of whom I think will need to contribute a lot more if we are going to knock over the Pies).

Couldn't have said it all better myself all these guys and I'd even throw Gwilt in there not to just a "lesser extent" wouldn't even be there if we were a top team like the others.

IMO they're all VFL players that supporters embrace because we have no-one else.

[linz]

I'm really such a schmuck. I keep opening up threads expecting to see some interesting and serious discussion, and I find myself reading, for the umpteenth time, inane posts suggesting that the likes of Ferguson, Gardi, Armitage or Allen should be brought into our team for the rest of the finals because they are supposedly going to make a big impact: or, in the case of the last two, because we ought to "give our young players some finals experience".

All four of these guys have played AFL during the season. All four have IMO, looked like they are a significant way below the required standard (Gardi's skills don't, but he moved around the field at glacial speed, suggesting - as he has now confirmed - that his injuries have prevented him from returning to anything remotely near his one time best game).

I would be the first to acknowledge that C Gardiner, McQualter, Eddy and to a less extent Gwilt, Raph and X all have their shortcomings as finals players. None of them would make the Geelong team, and I doubt that they would make any of the other final 8 teams (nor would Kosi on current form, Jones, Blake and perhaps a number of others).

But replacing any of these guys, if they are not injured, with any of Gardi, Ferguson, Allen and Armitage would be a massive risk given that they have shown next to nothing - repeat, next to nothing - at AFL level this season. Selecting any of them again this season would be a "psychic" decision based on a combination of hope and instinct. If Lyon's instincts tell him that any of these guys could deliver on Saturday night (or in subsequent matches, if we get to play any), then fair enough. But the idea that they are "going well" in the VFL has got much to do with it. Geary has been going well in the odd game lately, but Lyon seems to be finished with him for the season.

I really doubt that any poster on this forum would have any idea of what Lyon's instincts are telling him right now about any of these players. And I suspect that his knowledge and logic would be telling him to steer well clear of these four players. Still, Armo and Allen appear to be hovering around the edges, so he might know something that we all don't. But I'm sure it's got nothing to do with any idea that these guys should be given finals experience. And I doubt (and fervently hope) that Lyon would be considering Gardi or Ferguson at this point in time.

On the other hand, I am sure that he is considering Birss and Fiora, both of whom have shown some form at AFL level this season.

To conclude, my message is that - if you are looking for any additional impact in our performance on Saturday - I would think that, like me, you would be looking to see this coming from the players who ran around last weekend: particularly the likes of Schneider, Harves, Kosi, Dal and Joey (all of whom I think will need to contribute a lot more if we are going to knock over the Pies).

Couldn't have said it all better myself all these guys and I'd even throw Gwilt in there not to just a "lesser extent" wouldn't even be there if we were a top team like the others.

IMO they're all VFL players that supporters embrace because we have no-one else.

Yep.In my opinion: Our list isn't good enough. Having said that, we now have to NOW make it unpredictable to the opposition. IN: Gardiner OUT: King
IN: Armitage OUT: Mini IN: Birrs OUT: Raph IN: Ball (hopefully) Out X.

[matrix]

out: King???

u 4 real

[quidnunc]

At the risk of sounding uninteresting I would think that the team that played Geelong were not able to ignite a spark (under finals pressure) to get them going and were snuffed out.

I'm also not sure going in with the same side and hoping that will change is the best philosophy either?

My thoughts are that Armitage should play - does kick goals and tackles well. (I can't be bothered quoting stats but for those inclined check the comparisons between Eddy and McQualter for these attributes).

Ferguson also should not summarily be dismissed as an option. One game to show his value as a forward showed promise and would have been in the side the following week except for illness. I think of the game he played against Melbourne and compare it to what Charlie Gardiner is giving us. More chance of a spark from Ferguson me thinks.

Finally, Michael Gardiner - played an absolute shocker against the Eagles but also had a lot on this forum happy with his form early on. (Form last week in Scorps was apparently good). I think he has to come in to consideration as he could continue the pressure on Josh Fraser who would not like two hard bodied experienced ruckman against him all game. That pressure may alleviate a perceived on ball advantage for the pies.

That's my thoughts - don't like them? Too late you've read them!

[saint66au]

Our 3rd forward options have not worked all year and its somewhat optimistic to expect that they will magically explode in a cut-throat final.

Charlie G is living proof of all this tosh about "the emergencies at Geelong would all walk into St Kildas starting 22"..well IIRC Charlie was an emergency in their GF team last year. King PLAYED in the premiership side and yet has been solid rather than spectacular with us this year. SAid it all last Sunday that he was rated so highly by Gellong that his opponent spent most of his day double-teaming Roo

Ferguson..well he got lucky. 3rd forward v Melbourne. Yes played well but shanked all his set shots under zero pressure. My 80-something Dad could have played 3rd forward that day and snagged a few.

Allen. Hmm...2 unspectacular games this year and hes gonna be the magic answer in a final?

Look, lets face it. For us to win on Saturday Roo and/or Milney are gonna have to kick a bag. Our "3rd" forward option goals are far more likely to come from a spread of Gram/BJ/Schneider than any more traditional targets.

Kosi? God I love the bloke but he'd be the first to admit he's sadly out of form atm. Let him gallop around in the ruck like he did against Essendon, fill some holes and provide some chop-outs. If he kicks a goal or two its a huge bonus

[widereceiver]

I think X was brought in as an impact player. NO IMPACT. Hasn't played enough footy so it's back to the old drawing board.

Birss unlucky.

[saint1974]

x.clarke and c.gardiner out.

In birss and armitage(someone tough and strong not afraid of the hard ball get who can put a storng tackle on)

[Red]

Armitage has been a dead set dog in the seniors this year.

The boy can play but he doesn't run hard enough in the 1's and he doesn't

have to in the 2's because head and shoulders better than most others on

the field. He needs to push himself to make an impact.

X will be better for the run.