Riewoldt not even in top 10 for MVP award!

[rodgerfox]

Anyone who denies Roo's kicking is poor and a serious problem is in denial.

Roo's field kicking is actually quite good.

Absolutely.

Another reason he's being played out of position.

[bergsone]

Anyone who denies Roo's kicking is poor and a serious problem is in denial.

Roo's field kicking is actually quite good.

In front of the sticks is the problem

[Cairnsman]

Let's take the rose coloured goggles off.

Roo has played only 7-8 good to better games in the second half of the year.

Roo has kicked like a spastic chicken for the first half of the year (rememebr he is a forward and it's what he gets paid for mostly)

Roo will need to perform over 22 games to be considered MVP so maybe if he takes his current form (with the exception of Sunday's game) into next season and perform well over 22 rounds he might be a shot.

On a side note Roo and the rest of the team will carry the flat track bullie tag for ever more if he continues to deliver poor performances in finals matches like he did on Sunday. Nuff said.

[saintsRrising]

Let's take the rose coloured goggles off.

Roo has played only 7-8 good to better games in the second half of the year.

Roo has kicked like a spastic chicken for the first half of the year (rememebr he is a forward and it's what he gets paid for mostly)

Roo will need to perform over 22 games to be considered MVP so maybe if he takes his current form (with the exception of Sunday's game) into next season and perform well over 22 rounds he might be a shot.

On a side note Roo and the rest of the team will carry the flat track bullie tag for ever more if he continues to deliver poor performances in finals matches like he did on Sunday. Nuff said.

How about you factor in:

1/ First half of the Roo was playing with two injured knees, plus a shoulder injury (which was why he could not mark at full stretch properly...)

DESPITE this he was turning in quite acceptable games.


WHEN he became fully fit and was not as restricted not suprisingly his output lifted.

2/ That the last two weeks he has been playing with a broken finger.

[jakestar1]

also dont rate his perfomance on sunday all his fault
the delievery to him was very poor, not good conditions and
he was triple team most of the time

[saintspremiers]

who cares

As always.....and again.....agreed with you.

There are more important things to worry about.

exactly.

What is all this crap about the MVP award?

Sounds like some seppo bullshyte to me.

Isn't the only award of real significance the Brownlow?

[rodgerfox]

who cares

As always.....and again.....agreed with you.

There are more important things to worry about.

exactly.

What is all this crap about the MVP award?

Sounds like some seppo bullshyte to me.

Isn't the only award of real significance the Brownlow?

What would you take more interest in?

An award given by umpires? Or by players?

I know which I think holds more weight.

[JeffDunne]

Since when do you factor in a degree of difficulty because a player was playing injured?

Strange logic.

Anyhow, Roo has played some great games this year but I wouldn't have him in the league's best 10 players this season.

That's not a criticism of him as his best has been as good as anyone, but he hasn't done it consistently enough to consider him in the best 10 performers for the season.

[jakestar1]

i guess we notice bad games from roo more often because he is really the only one that stands up
if we had a more even contribution then he could
have a bad or average day and we would still win
and wouldnt even notice

[JeffDunne]

FWIW, who were the top 10 (in fact, who won it?)

Sorry I've read/heard very little AFL news over the past couple of days.

[Cairnsman]

Let's take the rose coloured goggles off.

Roo has played only 7-8 good to better games in the second half of the year.

Roo has kicked like a spastic chicken for the first half of the year (rememebr he is a forward and it's what he gets paid for mostly)

Roo will need to perform over 22 games to be considered MVP so maybe if he takes his current form (with the exception of Sunday's game) into next season and perform well over 22 rounds he might be a shot.

On a side note Roo and the rest of the team will carry the flat track bullie tag for ever more if he continues to deliver poor performances in finals matches like he did on Sunday. Nuff said.

How about you factor in:

1/ First half of the Roo was playing with two injured knees, plus a shoulder injury (which was why he could not mark at full stretch properly...)

DESPITE this he was turning in quite acceptable games.


WHEN he became fully fit and was not as restricted not suprisingly his output lifted.

2/ That the last two weeks he has been playing with a broken finger.

All factors considered, Roo did not deserve to be in the top 10 this year.

Yes he had some injury concerns however you need a little luck in this area if you are to perform well over 6-7 months however he will never go close to winning awards like MVP until he learns how to kick better and you can't blame injury on this part of his game because he has been having trouble for a few years now although he seems to have improved things this year. He needs to play to the level he played against Hawthorn consistently to be considered for individual awards like the Brownlow and MVP.

[jakestar1]

did ablett really deserve it
i thought bartel
he gets in there and thats how ablett gets the cheap handball
know way he should have won

[saintsRrising]

Is Roo overated?

Answer = no. Just as he is, he is one of the competitions best and our only A+ player.


Can he get better? = Yes

In terms of his kicking at goal from set shots...the answer is yes.

Does this mean that he is overated now? = no.


If Roo improves then his rating will go up....which does not mean that we are ove-rating him now.

[rodgerfox]

I still believe he's a half forward flanker.


He's the best HFF to ever play the game.

And that's his problem! He plays it so well that he's bluffed people into thinking he's a full forward in the mould of Matthew Lloyd, and a CHF in the mould of Brereton.

He's not.

He can do all of the above on a given day, but I don't think he's good enough to dominate and kick 100 goals in a season from FF, or good enough to kick 70 and win his team a flag from CHF.


He plays the HF role so well, because it uses his strengths. Athletisicm, aerobic ability, overhead marking, field kicking etc.

I always read the comparisons between him and Pavlich. Him and Brown. Him and Franklin.

It's unfair. He's playing their position - but he's a different player.

He's more comparable to Adam Goodes.

Does Goodes get compared to Pavlich? Hall? Brown etc.?


If Roo was allowed to play the role that Goodes plays, I have no doubt he'd dominate the comp.

He'd kick 50+ goals, get rebound 50s and forward entries too. It's the role he's suited to. And a very valuable role to a side too.

The games that got our season back on track, were the games when he played up the ground. He kicked the winning goal one week playing as a roaming HF and in the same game took the match saving mark as a 3rd man up in defence.


We need to roll the dice and concede that in his career, he's only kicked 9 twice as a forward. We lost one of those games.

We need to concede that the chances of him kicking a winning score of his own boot are low, but the chances of him getting 20+ possies plus 10 contested marks around the ground with 2-3 goals thrown in aswell are high if he plays up the ground.

[saintsRrising]

I still believe he's a half forward flanker.


He's the best HFF to ever play the game.

.

I would not disagree with playing him there necessarly.


Problem is that our other FF options are lean...and I think Kosi is better away from goals and not at FF.


You could play though..



Milne Kosi Roo

Schneider Allen Charlie/Gwilt


Milne to crum off Kosi... (Roo when on his game tends not to be spolit as much...and Milney would have trouble keeping up with him ).

Schneider to crumb off Allen who will get spoilt a lot.

[rodgerfox]

I still believe he's a half forward flanker.


He's the best HFF to ever play the game.

.

I would not disagree with playing him there necessarly.


Problem is that our other FF options are lean...and I think Kosi is better away from goals and not at FF.

And I think that's the issue. Both his coaches have made the call that he's better value deep forward as once The G gave it away, there's no one left to play a key forwadr role.

I disagree with them.


I think we need to concede and not play a key forward at all. Go with a mobile forward line that functions as a unit, and not rely on talented players to kick scores themselves.

[WayneJudson42]

I still believe he's a half forward flanker.


He's the best HFF to ever play the game.

.

I would not disagree with playing him there necessarly.


Problem is that our other FF options are lean...and I think Kosi is better away from goals and not at FF.

And I think that's the issue. Both his coaches have made the call that he's better value deep forward as once The G gave it away, there's no one left to play a key forwadr role.

I disagree with them.


I think we need to concede and not play a key forward at all. Go with a mobile forward line that functions as a unit, and not rely on talented players to kick scores themselves.

Probably the 3rd most intelligent comment you've made

Been harping on this for a while... we need another key fwd...or key back to release someone to play fwd. Leave Gwilt in the square.

If all else fails, we can can trade him to WCE for Kerr

[WayneJudson42]

Sorry to double up on my posts... but this just occured to me, nad smarter heads can clrify if my theory sucks...

WAtching Roo standing in the square doing nothing on Sunday p!ssed me off badly.

The irony as I see it, is that he is the one that should be playing Kosi's role because he has the mobility, stamina and footy smarts to dominate (like Goodes). One-out, he'd dominate anyone in the comp.

My view is that he does not have the body to be a power fwd.

On the other hand, I reckon that given some strong wheights work... Kosi could develop into a J Brown type fwd, if he would show more aggression. He could split packs open with his marks.

Then add another modile fwd in the square who can lead...

Thoughts?

[rodgerfox]

I still believe he's a half forward flanker.


He's the best HFF to ever play the game.

.

I would not disagree with playing him there necessarly.


Problem is that our other FF options are lean...and I think Kosi is better away from goals and not at FF.

And I think that's the issue. Both his coaches have made the call that he's better value deep forward as once The G gave it away, there's no one left to play a key forwadr role.

I disagree with them.


I think we need to concede and not play a key forward at all. Go with a mobile forward line that functions as a unit, and not rely on talented players to kick scores themselves.

Probably the 3rd most intelligent comment you've made

Been harping on this for a while... we need another key fwd...or key back to release someone to play fwd. Leave Gwilt in the square.

If all else fails, we can can trade him to WCE for Kerr

As I've said in another thread, we need to be far more creative.

The days of a key forward who takes big packs marks are over.

The days of a bloke starting in the goal square are leading to space 30m out directly in front are over too.

Tactically, opposition defences just don't let it happen.

Hawthorn obviously, are somewhat of an exception to this right now - but clearly Franklin is a freak.

Even with Franklin, they can be too 1 dimensional at times. And when they are, they get rolled.

The got 4 from Osborne, a couple from Rioli etc. etc.


We shouldn't be building it around key forwards. We should be building a 'team' down there that does not allow the backmen to take a mark - or get any unpressured posession.

That should be the aim. The goals will come after that.

[WayneJudson42]

I still believe he's a half forward flanker.


He's the best HFF to ever play the game.

.

I would not disagree with playing him there necessarly.


Problem is that our other FF options are lean...and I think Kosi is better away from goals and not at FF.

And I think that's the issue. Both his coaches have made the call that he's better value deep forward as once The G gave it away, there's no one left to play a key forwadr role.

I disagree with them.


I think we need to concede and not play a key forward at all. Go with a mobile forward line that functions as a unit, and not rely on talented players to kick scores themselves.

Probably the 3rd most intelligent comment you've made

Been harping on this for a while... we need another key fwd...or key back to release someone to play fwd. Leave Gwilt in the square.

If all else fails, we can can trade him to WCE for Kerr

As I've said in another thread, we need to be far more creative.

The days of a key forward who takes big packs marks are over.

The days of a bloke starting in the goal square are leading to space 30m out directly in front are over too.

Tactically, opposition defences just don't let it happen.

Hawthorn obviously, are somewhat of an exception to this right now - but clearly Franklin is a freak.

Even with Franklin, they can be too 1 dimensional at times. And when they are, they get rolled.

The got 4 from Osborne, a couple from Rioli etc. etc.


We shouldn't be building it around key forwards. We should be building a 'team' down there that does not allow the backmen to take a mark - or get any unpressured posession.

That should be the aim. The goals will come after that.

Yep, and I've been saying that throles of FWD's has changed, and they are now more mobile. Hence Loyd needs to play up the ground more these days.

I still think you need 1 key tall. Hence why I like the idea of playing Roo around the ground, and leaving Kosi more mobile inside 50 (if he can regain his mobility). He should be / could be a Hall or Brown type player?

Then have 2 attacking flankers (Raph & Cousins?)... Milne and Schneid to crumb, and Gwilt as a leading fwd who can apply pressure.

Bottom line: The more options you have, the less they can man up.

MAybe we are already heading that way with Raph and JAmes up fwd?

[duckduckduckgoose]

On the other hand, I reckon that given some strong wheights work... Kosi could develop into a J Brown type fwd, if he would show more aggression. He could split packs open with his marks.

The thought of an even less mobile/athletic Kosi makes baby jesus cry.
And as for the aggression- I think he's far too clumsy to be aggressive.
he'd end up on report every week if he tried to impose himself physically.

Having said that- its worth looking at SOMETHING/ANYTHING different considering his best season was 7 years ago.

As for the discussion about our structure, i couldn't agree more.
We have looked more like the the St Kilda Square Pegs, Round Holes than the St Kilda Saints for quite a while now.
It's killing more careers than its saving that's for sure...

[WayneJudson42]

On the other hand, I reckon that given some strong wheights work... Kosi could develop into a J Brown type fwd, if he would show more aggression. He could split packs open with his marks.

The thought of an even less mobile/athletic Kosi makes baby jesus cry.
And as for the aggression- I think he's far too clumsy to be aggressive.
he'd end up on report every week if he tried to impose himself physically.

Having said that- its worth looking at SOMETHING/ANYTHING different considering his best season was 7 years ago.

As for the discussion about our structure, i couldn't agree more.
We have looked more like the the St Kilda Square Pegs, Round Holes than the St Kilda Saints for quite a while now.
It's killing more careers than its saving that's for sure...

Not sure about killing careers per se.

We went with a simple fwd set up of G, Roo and Milne for years. G's gone, and Kosi can't replace him.

We don't have the types at the moment... and the ones we do are playing down back.

BTW, with regards to the original post and all the hoo ha from supporters, all I can say is...

If we accept players views on Harvey, then why not their views on Roo?

[saintjake]

i would be confident in backing j. brown to slot a goal from 45 on the boundary.

i wouldnt be able to watch roo take his shot.

[doristhesaint]

Interesting thread.

I think Roo is a A+ player but would like to see him kick goals at a better efficency.

But some say he is not good enough to win a M.V.P award.

He has already won it before

[The_Merchant]

AFLPA MVP
2004 Nick Riewoldt - St Kilda

His kicking was not that much better in 2004 but was obviously good enough for him to win the MVP.

Does anyone know where there is a list of who got how many votes?