Coaching for the Future
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- Sainter_Dad
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Coaching for the Future
What is a coach?
Is he just a guy who makes moves on Gameday?
Is he just a guy who teaches players how to kick etc?
Is he a combination of both?
I think the best example of a coach is the guy who takes on the Under 9's. Sees raw talent and develops it into something that can one day shine. He teaches the kids how to kick and hand pass - but he does not do it for ladder positions or win/loss records. He does it so the in 5 years they will have a shot at doing something with their football!
All the diatribe (or verbal diarrhoea) about GT v RL is rubbish - as is the discussion with regards to our ladder position at the end of this year. We need a coach looking to 2009, 2010 and beyond to coach us.
Most of the 22 who go out on the field each week can kick a football, most can handball, those who cant now will never be great axponents of the art. Gameday plans are so important on the day, but in truth would Geelog in its present incarnation be affected if the opposition pulled off some brilliant stragegy, I think not, they would just find another way to smash you.
The future is in the hands of the coach now, even if we win the GF this year, the review of the coach and players should not be looking backwads but to 2009, 2010 etc. Player A (I wont use X) may be the most fantastic player to pull on a jumper - but if he does not suit where the team is headed or his head is not right he should not be retained.
2004, the streak, we would have done that whoever was coaching us, a first year coach gets the benefits/liabilities of the coach 2 years ago, in truth this year was RL first year of being responsible for the cattle he had and next year is his lodestone, the testing of what he has planned for over the past 2 years. We at St Kilda have suffered because coaches have had to coach for the now, not the future.
We need to review this year on what it was - a year which meant one game made the difference between 8th and 4th - a year that a few champions stood up, a couple of kids shone through and in general we just got the job done. This does not change even if we win the Flag!!!!!
Coach for a successful future and that is what you will have, coach looking backwards and that is where you will go.
Be brave Ross and look forwards, make the hard calls, if that means culling a premiership player or two then so be it. Coach us as if your 2011 contract depends upon it!
Is he just a guy who makes moves on Gameday?
Is he just a guy who teaches players how to kick etc?
Is he a combination of both?
I think the best example of a coach is the guy who takes on the Under 9's. Sees raw talent and develops it into something that can one day shine. He teaches the kids how to kick and hand pass - but he does not do it for ladder positions or win/loss records. He does it so the in 5 years they will have a shot at doing something with their football!
All the diatribe (or verbal diarrhoea) about GT v RL is rubbish - as is the discussion with regards to our ladder position at the end of this year. We need a coach looking to 2009, 2010 and beyond to coach us.
Most of the 22 who go out on the field each week can kick a football, most can handball, those who cant now will never be great axponents of the art. Gameday plans are so important on the day, but in truth would Geelog in its present incarnation be affected if the opposition pulled off some brilliant stragegy, I think not, they would just find another way to smash you.
The future is in the hands of the coach now, even if we win the GF this year, the review of the coach and players should not be looking backwads but to 2009, 2010 etc. Player A (I wont use X) may be the most fantastic player to pull on a jumper - but if he does not suit where the team is headed or his head is not right he should not be retained.
2004, the streak, we would have done that whoever was coaching us, a first year coach gets the benefits/liabilities of the coach 2 years ago, in truth this year was RL first year of being responsible for the cattle he had and next year is his lodestone, the testing of what he has planned for over the past 2 years. We at St Kilda have suffered because coaches have had to coach for the now, not the future.
We need to review this year on what it was - a year which meant one game made the difference between 8th and 4th - a year that a few champions stood up, a couple of kids shone through and in general we just got the job done. This does not change even if we win the Flag!!!!!
Coach for a successful future and that is what you will have, coach looking backwards and that is where you will go.
Be brave Ross and look forwards, make the hard calls, if that means culling a premiership player or two then so be it. Coach us as if your 2011 contract depends upon it!
- rodgerfox
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Re: Coaching for the Future
I don't know why people use 'the streak' as a benchmark for us at our best.Sainter_Dad wrote:
2004, the streak, we would have done that whoever was coaching us
We were a much better side and a much more serious contender in 2005.
- Sainter_Dad
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Re: Coaching for the Future
I agree - and I point out that it was the cattle not the coaching that led us to that!rodgerfox wrote:I don't know why people use 'the streak' as a benchmark for us at our best.Sainter_Dad wrote:
2004, the streak, we would have done that whoever was coaching us
We were a much better side and a much more serious contender in 2005.
- saintsRrising
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Re: Coaching for the Future
Lyon is that coach....Sainter_Dad wrote:
. We need a coach looking to 2009, 2010 and beyond to coach us.
Steven and Eljay were both bottom age players...both players that were never about success in 2008....or even 2009 when they will still be young.
Similarly with the slightly older McEvoy...as a future ruckman his selection with our first pick was not to havea ready made player....but to havea ruckman for 2010 and beyond...
All three picks were picks for the long-term.....and given that Lyon was very much under the pump for finishing ninth last year good evidence that he is not recruiting simply to improve his immediate win/loss ratio...but is rather doing what is best for the club.
Lyon has recently spoken about players being given 4 year apprenticeships....this is all about building sound team for the future.
Interesting too was what Miles indiacted where his focus was all about coming on as a player in 2009....again another sign of Lyon coaching for the long term.
Now yes Lyon has made some selections to help immediately too....but he has done so in the main with good value and opportunistic trading. Just imagine 2008 without King in the ruck......
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- saintsRrising
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Re: Coaching for the Future
Sainter_Dad wrote:
I point out that it was the cattle not the coaching that led us to that!
Yes...........but the cattle come as a consequence of good list management...including player aquisition and development.
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- rodgerfox
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Impossible!!Sainter_Dad wrote:I am not Pro/Anti RL or Pro/Anti GT - I am merely looking at the results for this year and hoping that even when we win the flag that the emphasis on a coach/player review will be for the 2009 and beyond year - not how we went in 2008!
This is Saintsational!! There are no grey areas!
- Sainter_Dad
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Sorry Rodge - ummm - In a perfect world I would love to have GT back right now as a Player Manager (and only that) and I think RL is doing the right things to give us success in the near future (and hopefully a dynasty)rodgerfox wrote:Impossible!!Sainter_Dad wrote:I am not Pro/Anti RL or Pro/Anti GT - I am merely looking at the results for this year and hoping that even when we win the flag that the emphasis on a coach/player review will be for the 2009 and beyond year - not how we went in 2008!
This is Saintsational!! There are no grey areas!
- saintsRrising
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- saintsRrising
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May I ask why??? What examples do you have of him being a good player manager? What qualities do you see as being good for the role?Sainter_Dad wrote:
In a perfect world I would love to have GT back right now as a Player Manager (and only that)
* Was it the long term contracts he gave to injury proan players in Hamill and Penny ( we had to pay both out )?
*Was it due to his overpaying our list such that we maxed out the salary cap and then had to play a player or two short of our list maximum....all in years when we had many players unavailable through injury?
* Was it due to the fact that virtually all the hard to handle players were shown the door?
* Was it our great relationship with Casey??? (which has since been dramatically turned around)
* Was it our non-existant player develop program (except for those very nice travel pics from all those overseas camps)?
* Was it due to his great trading (please name some deals.....)?
* Was it due to his great overseeing of our player conditioning management?
* Was it his people skills.(...for despite bonding with one pool of young kids...with most others there is along hsitory of fractured and bitter relationships)?
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None of the above.saintsRrising wrote:May I ask why??? What examples do you have of him being a good player manager? What qualities do you see as being good for the role?Sainter_Dad wrote:
In a perfect world I would love to have GT back right now as a Player Manager (and only that)
* Was it the long term contracts he gave to players with injury proan players in Hamill and Penny we had to pay both out of)?
*Was it due to his overpaying our list such that we maxed out the salary cap and then had to play a player or two short of our list maximum....all in years when we had many players unavailable through injury?
* Was it due to the fact that virtually all the hard to handle players were shown the door?
* Was it our great relationship with Casey??? (which has since been dramtically turned around)
* Was it our non-existant player develop program (except for those very nice travel pics from all those overseas camps)?
*Was it due to his great trading (please name some deals.....)?
* Was it due to his great overseeing of our player conditioning management?
* Was it his people skills.(...for despite bonding with one pool of young kids...with most others there is along hsitory of fractured and bitter realtionships)?
In a perfect world, supporters would stop hankering for a past coach.
Would make jack-sh!t difference. We have people in place and it so far looks promising. Give them time. The results of our player development won't bare friut for a year or two yet.
Other teams seem to have ready-made players because they had their systems in place years ago IMO. Especially WCE and Adelaide, and Pies.
It's called world's best practice, and under the former admin, we had great talent, but were lucky to have "Mars" best practice.
If we still don't have it, I hope the board is doing everything possible to get it.
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
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You cant - this is Saintsational [FFS] - you must qualify your responsesaintsRrising wrote:100% agree.Sainter_Dad wrote:Okay - maybe I was being a little flippant - truth of the matter is I just want the Saints to succeed and decisions to be made re the long erm future of the club - not the short term gains
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WayneJudson42 wrote: . We have people in place and it so far looks promising. Give them time. The results of our player development won't bare friut for a year or two yet.
Other teams seem to have ready-made players because they had their systems in place years ago IMO. Especially WCE and Adelaide, and Pies.
It's called world's best practice, and under the former admin, we had great talent, but were lucky to have "Mars" best practice.
If we still don't have it, I hope the board is doing everything possible to get it.
100% agree
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- saintsRrising
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Well it took a few iterations to reach 100% common groundSainter_Dad wrote:You cant - this is Saintsational [FFS] - you must qualify your responsesaintsRrising wrote:100% agree.Sainter_Dad wrote:Okay - maybe I was being a little flippant - truth of the matter is I just want the Saints to succeed and decisions to be made re the long erm future of the club - not the short term gains
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sRr - please 2 agreements in 1 minute - you will start a love festsaintsRrising wrote:WayneJudson42 wrote: . We have people in place and it so far looks promising. Give them time. The results of our player development won't bare friut for a year or two yet.
Other teams seem to have ready-made players because they had their systems in place years ago IMO. Especially WCE and Adelaide, and Pies.
It's called world's best practice, and under the former admin, we had great talent, but were lucky to have "Mars" best practice.
If we still don't have it, I hope the board is doing everything possible to get it.
100% agree
- Sainter_Dad
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Nope - in truth there is common ground when you put on the RB&WsaintsRrising wrote:Well it took a few iterations to reach 100% common groundSainter_Dad wrote:You cant - this is Saintsational [FFS] - you must qualify your responsesaintsRrising wrote:100% agree.Sainter_Dad wrote:Okay - maybe I was being a little flippant - truth of the matter is I just want the Saints to succeed and decisions to be made re the long erm future of the club - not the short term gains
- WayneJudson42
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100% agreeSainter_Dad wrote:Nope - in truth there is common ground when you put on the RB&WsaintsRrising wrote:Well it took a few iterations to reach 100% common groundSainter_Dad wrote:You cant - this is Saintsational [FFS] - you must qualify your responsesaintsRrising wrote:100% agree.Sainter_Dad wrote:Okay - maybe I was being a little flippant - truth of the matter is I just want the Saints to succeed and decisions to be made re the long erm future of the club - not the short term gains
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
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Mate, do you cut and copy posts in order to take shots at people???JeffDunne wrote:Fixed it for you.WayneJudson42 wrote:In a perfect world, supporters would stop whinging about a past coach.
You need help JD. Seriously.
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
- WayneJudson42
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In answer to your question : sometimes.WayneJudson42 wrote:Mate, do you cut and copy posts in order to take shots at people???JeffDunne wrote:Fixed it for you.WayneJudson42 wrote:In a perfect world, supporters would stop whinging about a past coach.
You need help JD. Seriously.
In reply to your statement : do you own a mirror?
GT's been gone for two whole seasons and two drafts/trade periods yet a discussion on our coaching FUTURE becomes another bash GT thread.
Maybe Andrew could recommend a therapist? His seems to have done wonders.