we are the most experienced finals side......says drain

[stinger]

Return-to-basics creed helps Saints' charge into top four

Nick Sheridan | September 2, 2008

ST KILDA'S football manager Matthew Drain says the club's eight wins from its past 10 matches that have led to a spot in the top four developed as more a series of splutters than a decisive bang.

"We certainly think we deserve to be (top four) … but it's not as if we've actually been knocking the door down, even in the past 10 weeks," Drain said.

He insisted that this late run was not by design, and had nothing to do with coach Ross Lyon's time at the Swans, who developed a reputation for peaking at the business end of the season.

Drain said the reason behind the club's turnaround in the second half of the season was simple — a strong focus on the basics that enabled the side to string together more consistent, four-quarter efforts.

"There was no line in the sand," Drain said. "We just knew that we needed to get some of those basic parameters of how we wanted to play right, and our execution of our skills, but look, the first game where we got back to winning was a pretty ugly game against Fremantle … so it wasn't as if we just turned it around and annihilated a team, it was just a grinding effort."

And now they have earned a top-four berth, there is one stat that suggests the Saints could be more dangerous in this finals series than many would give them credit for.

With 153 games of finals experience, the Saints are the most-seasoned finals campaigners in the top four, ahead of Geelong, on 150, and well ahead of Hawthorn, 80, and the Bulldogs, 93.

It is something that Drain said will stand them in good stead when preparing for the challenges ahead.

"I think on and off the field, (finals experience) is important because you know what's in front of you, and you know what to expect in preparation and how the group needs to be handled and how the group handles themselves," he said.

[Sainterman]

Nice to know, although I think that Geelongs Grand Final experience counts for something too!

[Saints Premiers 2008]

well we have players who know how to win finals

...but are very good at loosing prelims!

[saintsRrising]

With 153 games of finals experience, the Saints are the most-seasoned finals campaigners in the top four, ahead of Geelong, on 150, and well ahead of Hawthorn, 80, and the Bulldogs, 93.

.

I wondered if he deducted Dempster's games?

Still the point is that on a comparitive basis that we have ample finals experience.

[bergholt]

Our team this week will probably be (Ball in for Dempster):

(name, games, finals)

Harvey (380, 14) - and a grand final
Schneider (114, 12) - and a premiership
Hudghton (224, 10) - and a grand final
King (212, 10) - and a premiership
Riewoldt (155, 6)
Dal Santo (141, 6)
Ball (122, 6)
Gardiner, C (62, 6)
Hayes (189, 5)
Milne (162, 5)
Blake (133, 5)
Goddard (110, 5)
Koschitzke (116, 4)
Montagna (95, 3)
Clarke, R (38, 3)
Fisher, S (93, 2)
Gwilt (23, 2)
Gram (74, 1)
Birss (71, 0)
Gilbert (36, 0)
Eddy (10, 0)
Jones (23, 0)

Which adds up to 105 finals, as far as I can tell. I suppose Drain was probably counting the whole list - add in Gehrig, Baker, Dempster, Maguire, X Clarke, L Fisher, Fiora and that probably gets us up to his figure.

Interesting that three of the top eight on that list weren't at the club last year. Lyon's certainly recruited for finals experience - interesting to see if that makes any difference on the field. I'd suggest that the Geelong team that runs out will have more finals games than this, but can't be bothered to do the numbers right now.

After this September, we'll be up to at least another 44 games of finals experience.

[saintsRrising]

Thanks for that..

Interesting that Charlie has played 6 finals games...about 10% of his total!!!!! and more than most Saints.

[barks4eva]

Our team this week will probably be (Ball in for Dempster):

(name, games, finals)

Harvey (380, 14) - and a grand final
Schneider (114, 12) - and a premiership
Hudghton (224, 10) - and a grand final
King (212, 10) - and a premiership
Riewoldt (155, 6)
Dal Santo (141, 6)
Ball (122, 6)
Gardiner, C (62, 6)
Hayes (189, 5)
Milne (162, 5)
Blake (133, 5)
Goddard (110, 5)
Koschitzke (116, 4)
Montagna (95, 3)
Clarke, R (38, 3)
Fisher, S (93, 2)
Gwilt (23, 2)
Gram (74, 1)
Birss (71, 0)
Gilbert (36, 0)
Eddy (10, 0)
Jones (23, 0)

Which adds up to 105 finals, as far as I can tell. I suppose Drain was probably counting the whole list - add in Gehrig, Baker, Dempster, Maguire, X Clarke, L Fisher, Fiora and that probably gets us up to his figure.

Interesting that three of the top eight on that list weren't at the club last year. Lyon's certainly recruited for finals experience - interesting to see if that makes any difference on the field. I'd suggest that the Geelong team that runs out will have more finals games than this, but can't be bothered to do the numbers right now.

After this September, we'll be up to at least another 44 games of finals experience.

Good to see the spin doctors at the club working overtime, suppose they've had good practice in this, trying to tell everyone how amazing Belvedere Park is


FAIR DINKUM

[Otiman]

After this September, we'll be up to at least another 44 games of finals experience.

42 with Harves retirement.

[spiral2]

(name, games, finals)
Gilbert (36, 0)
Eddy (10, 0)
Jones (23, 0)

good work bergholt!

I worry about these three, particularly the bottom two (if they stay in the side). Not slagging them off but skills and decision making aren't their strong points so with the extra pressure of finals it will be pretty tough work for them.
If they put their heads down and just focus on giving a strong contest they should do more good things than bad.

[bigred]

trying to tell everyone how amazing Belvedere Park is

fail thread derail is fail.

[bergholt]

After this September, we'll be up to at least another 44 games of finals experience.

42 with Harves retirement.

Yep, take off 14 for Banger, 14 for Frase, possibly 10 for Max. Just shows how important it is to keep scraping into the eight, to keep a bit of finals experience about the place. Elimination Finals are still finals.

[ThePunter]

Let's look at Sunday's likely line-up and their finals experience in depth.

Backs

Sam Gilbert - no finals
Max Hudghton - 10 finals, five in his first two seasons including a Grand Final. Famously screamed at by Stan Alves in 1998 v Sydney. Never had more than 13 possessions in a final. Missed 2005 v Adelaide through injury. Led a valiant rearguard action in Prelim Final 2005 v Sydney, but the flood gates eventually opened. Played his worst final on nemesis David Neitz in 2006.
Sam Fisher - 2 finals, 2005 v Adelaide played with broken foot and got 22 possessions, 2006 v Melbourne had 19 possessions. No finals in 2004, missed 2005 Prelim v Sydney.

Half Backs

Raphael Clarke - 3 finals, 15 possesions v Adelaide in 2005, 11 possessions v Sydney. Rushed back late 2006 only to get injured Elimination Final 2006 v Melbourne.
Jason Blake - 5 finals, 30 possessions in 3 finals in 2004, 22 possessions and 23 hit outs in 2 finals in 2005. Not selected in 2006 Elim Final v Melb.
Brendan Goddard - 5 finals, only 16 possessions in 3 finals in 2004 (four in the last two), missed 2005 QF v Adel as late withdrawal, 13 possessions in PF 2005 v Syd, one of St Kilda's better players in 2006 EF v Melb with 23 possessions

Centres

Jason Gram - 1 final, not selected for finals in 2004 or 2005, only 15 possessions in 2006 EF v Melb
Nick Dal Santo - 6 finals, quiet with 45 possessions in 3 finals in 2004, one of St Kilda's best players 2005 QF v Adel with 31 possessions, 23 possessions and 1 goal two weeks later v Sydney, disappointing 15 possessions 2006 EF v Melb
Leigh Montagna - 3 finals, injured for 2004 finals series, 28 possessions and 1 goal in 2 finals in 2005, 16 possessions in 2006 EF v Melb

Half Forwards

James Gwilt - 18 possessions and 2 goals in only 2nd senior game QF 2005 v Adel, only two possessions two weeks later v Sydney, not selected 2006 finals
Nick Riewoldt - 6 finals, 50 possessions and 7 goals in 3 finals in 2004 (including 2 bags of 3 goals), 23 possessions and 2 goals twice in 2005 finals series, 20 possessions and 2 goals 2006 EF v Melb
Clinton Jones - no finals

Forwards

Stephen Milne - 5 finals, not selected 2004 QF v Bris, 4 goals v Sydney 2004 SF, 1 kick PF v PA, 13 possessions and 1 goal in 2 finals in 2005, 16 possessions and 2 goals in much-maligned performance 2006 EF v Melb
Justin Koschitzke - 4 finals, 34 possessions, 22 hitouts and 2 goals in 3 finals in 2004, missed 2005 finals series through injury, 12 possessions, 9 marks and 1 goal in 2006 EF v Melb
Adam Schneider - 12 finals (for Sydney), 23 possessions in 2 finals in 2003, 15 possessions and 1 goal in 2 finals in 2004, only 31 possessions in 4 finals in 2005, but three goals in 2nd half PF v StK, 43 possessions and 3 goals in 3 finals in 2006, only eight possessions and one goal 2007 EF v Coll, has played in two grand finals, won one premiership

Followers

Steven King - 10 finals (for Geelong), only 4 possessions and 5 hitouts 1996 QF v NM, 16 possessions and 16 hitouts in 2 finals in 1997, 14 possessions and 23 hitouts 2000 EF v Haw, 46 possessions and 81 hitouts in 3 finals in 2004, 27 possessions and 33 hitouts in 2 finals in 2005, 14 possessions and 10 hitouts in 2007 GF v PA, has played in one grand final and premiership
Lenny Hayes - 5 finals, 12 tackles in 2004 SF v Syd, 32 possessions and 9 tackles 2004 PF v PA, 39 possessions in 2 finals in 2005, missed 2006 finals through injury
Shane Birss - no finals

Interchange

Robert Harvey - 14 finals
1991 EF v Geel - 29 possessions, 1 behind, 3 tackles
1992 EF v Coll - 34 possessions, BOG
1992 SF v Foot - 27 possessions, 1 goal
1997 QF v Bris - 33 possessions, 1 goal, 2 behinds
1997 PF v NM - 34 possessions, 1 goal, 1 behind, BOG
1997 GF v Adel - 36 possessions, 1 goal
1998 QF v Syd - 26 possessions, 2 goals
1998 SF v Melb - 26 possessions, 1 goal
2004 QF v Bris - 10 possessions
2004 SF v Syd - 26 possessions
2004 PF v PA (300th game) - 27 possessions
2005 QF v Adel - 31 possessions, 3 goals, BOG
2005 PF v Syd - 24 possessions
2006 EF v Melb - 20 possessions, 1 behind
Robert Eddy - no finals
Xavier Clarke - 3 finals, 16 possessions in 2 finals in 2004, not selected 2004 PF v PA, injured 2005 finals, 1 possession before being injured 2006 EF v Melb
Charlie Gardiner - 4 finals (for Geelong), not selected 2004 QF v PA, 2 goals 2004 PF v Bris, 22 possessions and 1 goal in 2 finals in 2005

[spiral2]

you could at least post the Geelong figures for comparison, FFS!



nah, amazing job!
do you work for the govt.?

[bergholt]

Let's look at Sunday's likely line-up and their finals experience in depth.

Nice post, Punter!

Very few players in that list with good finals performances, then. S Fisher, once. Dal, in a couple. Gwilt once. Riewoldt consistently. Milne, not too bad. Schneider a couple. King not bad. Hayes definitely good. Harvs consistently good.

A long way to go for the rest.

[ThePunter]

Day off, mate, so had some time to look up the stats. Footy has gotten the better of me.

Most of the Geelong's players performances would be fresh in our minds. Ottens in the PF, Scarlett, S Johnson and Chapman in the GF. Even Lonergan has a BOG in a VFL Grand Final.

The only Cat with a question mark over him come finals is Mark Blake, who underwhelmed in two finals last year before being replaced by our current ruckman.

In the midfield, Hayes, Ball & Dal Santo have all had good days, but not consistently. Harvey is a freak, but we all knew that. Riewoldt is really consistent without being spectacular. Hard to measure the defenders.

[rexy]

Once again, bangers stats are amazing!