Rookies

[saintsRrising]

Well after two years now of taking the rookie system seriously it is paying good dividends for us:

*Mini, Geary, Eddie, Attard and Jones have all played a goodly number of games for us in that 2 year period and look like playing many many more.

Geary I am confident will be a better player once he masses up a bit.

Eddy is looking very good already and looks set to become a great running link man. While not saying he has the class of Harvey, with eddy's huge tank Eddy can play that running link man role that harvey has been filling this year (just have to teach Eddy how to pass over 30m accurately ).

CJ has improved steadily....and continius to improve (did anyone else notice how in the Dons game that THREE time when contesting an opponent trying to mark how he tapped toa saint in space? Twice in defence and once in the forward line to Eddy for a goal)

What a great batch of rookies from the one year!!!!!...and quite amazing given our scant return for half a dozen years to find and develop FIVE players (FOUR players if you want to discount Mini) in the one year this way.


If I had to makea prediction right here and now, and I will, I would favour Eddy as the player that will over his career play the most number of AFL games.

From this year Eddie and Mini would both seem likely to be promoted off the rookie list.

Miles has looked good in the few games he has played, but has had leg splint problems. Evidently he massed up this year for AFL and it was too much extra weight too quick for his boody. Will watch with interest how he goes next year. It would not surprise me at all for him to be the next rookie to play a senior game.

2009 Rookies

I can't wait to see the 2009 batch which will evidently include an irishman this year as an International rookie.

Also waiting in the wings are some NSW Scholarship players with the ssn of an ex-Swan looking to be a real talent.


THE FINAL WORD

When Banger announced his retirement one of the reasons why was he said that there was some good young talent coming through.

Now my initial thought was that Banger was just being Banger, humble ad gracious.

But the more I think about it, the more I think Banger was actually speaking from the heart and that with those rookies plus Armo and Steven that there is a good batch of younger players coming through.

[plugger66]

If only our previous coach could get the younsters up and running.

[bergholt]

*Mini, Geary, Eddie, Attard and Jones have all played a goodly number of games for us in that 2 year period and look like playing many many more.

Yeah, none of them are world-beaters yet but looking OK. It's mainly thanks to persistence - promoting them and then picking them consistently, giving them a chance to actually show their wares.

You can tell what Lyon wants from his kids/fringe players; have a look at this list:

Tackles Per Game:

• 1 Lenny Hayes 6.10
  2 Luke Ball 5.94
  3 Andrew McQualter 3.44
  4 Clinton Jones 3.35
  5 Robert Eddy 3.30
  6 Leigh Montagna 3.27
  7 Nick Dal Santo 3.19
  8 David Armitage 3.18
  9 Shane Birss 3.12
  10 Sean Dempster 2.74

So aside from our four premier midfielders, it's the four kids who need to step up, and two fringe players who need to hold their spots. This is why they don't necessarily need to get 20 touches a game to stay in the side - Ross just wants them to be doing the right things consistently at this stage.

I hope it works.

[LTN16]

Rookie List '08:
1. Attard, Jayden - Elevate to main list.
2. Chivers, Glenn - Maybe retain/delist, has shown good form at Casey of late. Personally I would delist.
3. Eddy, Robert - Elevate to main list.
4. McQualter, Andrew - Elevate to main list.
5. Miles, Luke - Retain.
6. van Rheenen, Luke - Delist, has failed to get his body right to play any games this year. Would prefer Blake McGrath our 208cm NSW Scholarship player.
7. Haretuku, Khan - Retain.

Rookie List '09:
1. Miles, Luke
2. Haretuku, Khan
3. McGrath, Blake
4. Irish Player
5. -
6. -
7. -

[plugger66]

Rookie List '08:
1. Attard, Jayden - Elevate to main list.
2. Chivers, Glenn - Maybe retain/delist, has shown good form at Casey of late. Personly I would delist.
3. Eddy, Robert - Elevate to main list.
4. McQualter, Andrew - Elevate to main list.
5. Miles, Luke - Retain.
6. van Rheenen, Luke - Delist, has failed to get his body right to play any games this year. Would prefer Blake McGrath our 208cm NSW Scholarship player.
7. Haretuku, Khan - Retain.

Rookie List '09:
1. Miles, Luke
2. Haretuku, Khan
3. McGrath, Blake
4. Irish Player
5. -
6. -
7. -

I would be a bit tougher. Attard or Khan should not be kept. If Attard is assured of being fit keep him and get rid of Khan. Doesnt seen to be the right size to make it as a ruckman and not good enough overhead or fast enough to be a forward. Having said all that they will keep him I think.

[vacuous space]

Rookie List '09:
1. Miles, Luke
2. Haretuku, Khan
3. McGrath, Blake
4. Irish Player
5. -
6. -
7. -

Does Khan go inside the main rookie list after this season? I'm pretty sure that Blake McGrath and any Irish players would go outside the main rookie list. So there's the potential for us to have 8 or maybe even 9 rookies depending on Khan.

[saintsRrising]

Rookie List '09:
1. Miles, Luke
2. Haretuku, Khan
3. McGrath, Blake
4. Irish Player
5. -
6. -
7. -

Does Khan go inside the main rookie list after this season? I'm pretty sure that Blake McGrath and any Irish players would go outside the main rookie list. So there's the potential for us to have 8 or maybe even 9 rookies depending on Khan.

I may be wildly wrong here......but what the rookies different is HOW they become rookies.

Once they are a rookie I think they are essentially the same.


ie Our NSW scholarship players we can use our LAST rookie selection to take them and now other AFL Club can nominate them.

Similarly with an Overseas Rookie, once we have reached agreement with them, no other club can take them.

With 'normal" rookies any club can draft them, as with the main draft, and it is first in first served.

[mad saint guy]

I would be a bit tougher. Attard or Khan should not be kept. If Attard is assured of being fit keep him and get rid of Khan. Doesnt seen to be the right size to make it as a ruckman and not good enough overhead or fast enough to be a forward. Having said all that they will keep him I think.

With Dempster injured I think Attard is now safe. Kahn will probably get another year if he isn't taking up a spot someone else could fill (how many NSW players can you have?).

[saintsRrising]

(how many NSW players can you have?).

I think you can promote as many NSW Scholarship players to Rookies as you like...as long as you do not exceed your number of allowed rookies....and as long as they meet age requirements.

[vacuous space]

I think you can promote as many NSW Scholarship players to Rookies as you like...as long as you do not exceed your number of allowed rookies....and as long as they meet age requirements.

The number of allowed rookies for a team with their veterans inside the main list is six. We have seven. Khan is outside the normal rookie list. McGrath will be too, as will any international rookies we sign. That's why I'm saying we could have 8 or 9 rookies next year.

[bergholt]

With Dempster injured I think Attard is now safe. Kahn will probably get another year if he isn't taking up a spot someone else could fill (how many NSW players can you have?).

With Dempster injured, won't we probably leave Attard on the rookie list and promote him to fill Dempster's long-term-injury spot for most of the season? He won't be 24 for 18 months, so he's still eligible for the rookie list, no?

It's a long way back for Attard, and while I have a fair bit of faith in him, I'd like to see us be as smart as possible about managing the list. From the same perspective, I'd probably leave McQualter on the rookie list another year, but that might be a bit too cynical, seeing as he's up to 32 games. (Is there a games limit for the rookie list?)

Basically, it's apparently the last good draft in a few years, so we want to take four or five picks if possible. But we don't have sufficient delistings at this point, so keeping a few rookies down might be the easiest solution. (God forbid we should have so few long-term injuries that we can't promote anyone.)

OFF:
Gehrig
Harvey
Rix
L Fisher
Fiora
Ferguson?
Van Rheenen (R)
Haretuku? (R)

ON:
Eddy (R)

That gives us five draft picks, and three spots to fill on the rookie list - that's a pretty good start at keeping the growth going, without too much crippling in the short term. (Probably give Ferg one more year, judging from that list.)

[vacuous space]

With Dempster injured, won't we probably leave Attard on the rookie list and promote him to fill Dempster's long-term-injury spot for most of the season?

He's had two years on the rookie list, so he has to be either elevated or delisted. It may be possible for us to redraft him afterward, I'm not sure. I suspect though that Attard, Eddy and McQualter will all be elevated. It's more likely that Miles will get a shot to fill Dempster's LTI spot if he can get healthy and perform up to expectations.

That gives us five draft picks, and three spots to fill on the rookie list - that's a pretty good start at keeping the growth going, without too much crippling in the short term. (Probably give Ferg one more year, judging from that list.)

I don't think we're likely to draft five. The lowest our top pick can be now is eleven. That means our fifth pick would be no better than 77 and I can't see us picking that late. I think four picks, three elevations - so seven senior delistings. I also don't see any advantage to delisting Haretuku and very little to delisting Chivers. We'll be turning over half the rookie list anyway, which is about right.

[desertsaint]

If only our previous coach could get the younsters up and running.

The fish are far too sated from the feast of joy served up on sunday to take the bait!

[saintsRrising]

If only our previous coach could get the younsters up and running.

The fish are far too sated from the feast of joy served up on sunday to take the bait!

Thats ok....Plugga' bait was just way off topic and the OP...

The previous coaches problem was not lack of the ability to motivate youngters, but lack of the ability to secure the right youngsters (and for that matter the not so young)..

He was ok enough at motivating what he was given. But could not add substantial new talent, causing a spiral of decline.

As Matthews said...the first thing a coach needs to do is to build a good list.

[rodgerfox]

SrR, I'm afraid I don't share your views on the calibre of youth that we've seen this year.

Rookies or not, they're pretty ordinary I think.

One thing I will give them however, is that they have a dip.

And that's as important as anything.

[saintly]

SrR, I'm afraid I don't share your views on the calibre of youth that we've seen this year.

Rookies or not, they're pretty ordinary I think.

One thing I will give them however, is that they have a dip.

And that's as important as anything.

if they were pretty ordinary. eddy, mcqualter would not get games. the fact is that they do, therefore they must be better than those playing in the 2's that are not getting games.

[bergholt]

SrR, I'm afraid I don't share your views on the calibre of youth that we've seen this year.

Rookies or not, they're pretty ordinary I think.

One thing I will give them however, is that they have a dip.

And that's as important as anything.

if they were pretty ordinary. eddy, mcqualter would not get games. the fact is that they do, therefore they must be better than those playing in the 2's that are not getting games.

That doesn't mean they're any good. All that means is that they're a better option than other players who could fill those spots - eg Fiora, L Fisher, Birss (for most of the year).

I don't think they're amazing, but I do think that if you've got good ordinary kids, in order to turn them into good ordinary players, you need to get some games into them. If they're not Joel Selwood when they get to the club, you need to play them on and off until they turn good. This is what we did with L Montagna, for instance.

Or else you play them until they prove they're not gonna make it, then dump them.

But either way, sitting them in the reserves for years on end doesn't work.

[saintsRrising]

I think some have missed the point on Rookies entirely!


Even if our rookies are only ever bottom six players then by having added an extra pool of players to our team the the overall 22 will be better...

In addition if we keep sifting sooner or later one or more will be a gun.

PLUS our depth will be better so that when injury strikes that we are less effected.

Injuries still occurred this year and WITHOUT Mini, Geary, Eddy, Jones this year the injuries to X, Baker (and even Ball this week) in particular would have hurt us a lot more than they did.

CJ in particular has been a good replacement for X. Now X may eventually squeeze him him out again, but if we did not have CJ's contribution this year we may well have lost more games.

Mini's shut down roles were vital in some games and he wasa worthly fill in for Baker.

We quite well would have lost more games..and most likely would not have finished fourth where only % stopped us from finishing lower.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

SrR, I'm afraid I don't share your views on the calibre of youth that we've seen this year.

Rookies or not, they're pretty ordinary I think.

One thing I will give them however, is that they have a dip.

And that's as important as anything.

yes cause the years of Murray Brooks Sweeny & Raymond were better

[Duggie1]

Nothing original by saying that some take longer to produce the goods.
Good example is BJ. Remember how he was bagged week after week. Many said he was baggage.
Were you one? Not me. I always held he was a champion. But there have been some also who proved me wrong.

[saintsRrising]

Nothing original by saying that some take longer to produce the goods.
Good example is BJ. Remember how he was bagged week after week. Many said he was baggage.
Were you one? Not me. I always held he was a champion. :

I have a very good feeling about Eddy in particular. Not saying he will bea star..but I think he has the goods to becomea more than useful player for us.


He is fantastic runner with reprtedly the best endurance and running capacity at the club....and in todays running game that is a great asset to start with. with further training and conditioning he will further improve in this.


Add to this that he seems to be able to read the play, and knows when and where to run.

He is also quite robust of body...which is aplus as we seem to have many lightly built types.

His kicking needs to improve and so if he can work hard on this and improve I think he may well be set for a goodly number of games for us.

[sainter123]

khan is one who i believed should be dropped he is a good footballer but i dont think he has the talent for afl.

luke van reehen should be kept if he is able to get his foot right he will be a very very valuable player as i believe this will be rixs last year on st kildas list???

luke ran reehen has a great build and would be able with time put up a good duel with the like of cox and hille....

[saintly]

khan is one who i believed should be dropped he is a good footballer but i dont think he has the talent for afl.

luke van reehen should be kept if he is able to get his foot right he will be a very very valuable player as i believe this will be rixs last year on st kildas list???

luke ran reehen has a great build and would be able with time put up a good duel with the like of cox and hille....

what makes you think this will be rix's last year on saints list?

with regards to Van Reenan - i heard he was slow. so not sure whether football clubs go for slow bullocking rucks anymore.

[hotdish]

If we can keep Van Rheenan on the rookie list for another year, I would delist Rix.

King
Gardiner
Kossi
McEvoy
Blake
Van Rheenan

as the depth...thus we don't need Rix. If King went down I would blood McEvoy next year, and have another kid on the list instead of Rix. He has only got one game all year so surely thats a sign that RL doesn't rate him...

That would make the list changes:

GONE - Rix,Gehrig,Harvey, Fergo [L Fisher/Fiora] [Attard Rookie]
Upgrade - Eddy, McQualter

Delist Attard as a rookie and either re-draft him as a rookie if possible, or possibly draft him at pick 90 or something if we have 4 live draft picks...