Treating all our players like sacred Lambs

[Winmar7Fan]

I was reading a thread posted by Otiman about CJ and again noticed some strong offence from supporters.

I like him but IMO he needs to play at his very best to hold his spot but It seems every time someone either criticises or mentions delisting our bottom end players that are battling to keep their spot every week people strongly disapprove.

Do they not realise these players are the difference between us winning a flag and not? If you don’t believe that then you’re saying we have one of the top 2 or 3 lists in the comp that are genuinely capable of winning the flag to leave it as it is in which your dreaming.

If not then we need to strengthen our list so it is which means someone has to bloody go and it ain't obviously going to be players like Lenny Hayes or Goddard .

Making decisions based on emotion and hoping and believing these players might make it with more time showing a bit of promise here and there will get us nowhere and a total waste of time.

Personally I’m prepared to replace the whole f!!!en list if that’s what it takes to win a premiership.

So the next time anyone jumps up and down wanting to save all these bottom end players that will never be any different than they are now, don’t complain about our lack of achievement as a team.

You can’t have it both ways.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

im all for delisting bottem end players but CJ isnt the bottom hes lower mid end of the list but not bottom . there are at least 5 players i would delist befor CJ's name would even be close to comming up . by all means delist the dead wood but not the bloke who earns his spot each week

[SENsei]

Another Sacred Cow thread?

[bigcarl]

he's in our best 22 and still will be on sunday, i'd say.

[matrix]

geez if he gets dropped id be very very surprised.....and pissed off

[Persuader]

I don't think we consider the players sacred lambs.
Perhaps the de-listers consider every player easy meat.
If we took any notice of the 'he isn't up to it and must be delisted' statements we wouldn't have, for example, BJ.
People were harsher on him that anything Jones has copped lately.

[Winmar7Fan]

he's in our best 22 and still will be on sunday, i'd say.

No I don't think he should be delisted either I was just refering to response to him copping a bit of critisism and being in our best 22 can be taken either way to prove my point.


But even though It's debatable I believe the difference between us and the best teams are the quality of the bottom end players and ours aren't to the standard of theirs.

Apart from the kids who need to be given a chance piss the others off .

[True Blue Sainter]

he's in our best 22 and still will be on sunday, i'd say.

No I don't think he should be delisted either I was just refering to response to him copping a bit of critisism .

But even though It's debatable I believe the difference between us and the best teams are the quality of the bottom end players and ours aren't to the standard of theirs.

Apart from the kids who need to be given a chance piss the others off.

I think it's the fact that CJ has taken giant leaps forward this year on the whole, whilst many others have stagnated or regressed (Dal, Monty, Kossie etc.) His improvement seems to signify that he is putting in 110% effort on improving his game, and it's good enough to get in the best 22, so he's definitely good enough to stay on the list.

L Fish, Ferg, Howard, Rix, M Gardiner would at least all go ahead of him.

[Saintschampions08]

he's in our best 22 and still will be on sunday, i'd say.

No I don't think he should be delisted either I was just refering to response to him copping a bit of critisism .

But even though It's debatable I believe the difference between us and the best teams are the quality of the bottom end players and ours aren't to the standard of theirs.

Apart from the kids who need to be given a chance piss the others off.

I think it's the fact that CJ has taken giant leaps forward this year on the whole, whilst many others have stagnated or regressed (Dal, Monty, Kossie etc.) His improvement seems to signify that he is putting in 110% effort on improving his game, and it's good enough to get in the best 22, so he's definitely good enough to stay on the list.

L Fish, Ferg, Howard, Rix, M Gardiner would at least all go ahead of him.

I think Gwilt and Raph would also go ahead of him.

Remember...they've only played 2 good games

[bigcarl]

I think Gwilt and Raph would also go ahead of him.

i'd hope not. raph, in particular, is showing signs of being much more than a GOP. a heap of talent.

[st.byron]

I think Gwilt and Raph would also go ahead of him.

i'd hope not. raph, in particular, is showing signs of being much more than a GOP. a heap of talent.

yep, agree that it would be premature to move Raph on. Still has plenty to offer I reckon.
I think CJ's improved heaps this year and I like the red hot crack attitude he brings to the game. I also like that the team has been reasonably stable over the past six weeks or so. Guys like Eddy, CJ, Gwilt and until last week Mini, have at last been given a solid chance to learn and show their talent at seniot level.

Re the OP, everyone has an opinion as to who should and shouldn't go. It's fair enough for people to put their views forward, no matter how cabbage brained others may think they are. That's what this forum's for.

[Dan Warna]

12 months ago CJ was rubbish
i was very suprised when he was retained

now he is getting 20 plus possessions, a 75% efficiency.

i am a convert. he's earned his spot.

My opinion is that most player can play to a lesser or greater degree.

Caydn Beetham had more talent than a lot of guys that have played 250 games, but he didn't do the work of others.

Nathan Burke and serial pest Tony SHaw were told they were too slow, can't kick and should look at other jobs, both are champions at their respective clubs.

Tim Allen was the best kick for goal behind tony lockett at st kilda, but choked in his senior appearances for st kilda, geelong and hawthorn. Tonnes of talent but didn't perform at the senior level. Back in the day it was worth going to the magoos to see Tim Allen dominate at CHF or the magoos.

IMO getting the players to perform to their ability is the job in part of the coach.

3 coaches failed with Beetham, probably lethal and pagan got the best out of martin pike, considered untouchable rubbish headcase for much of his career. Even the current no.1 headcase in the competition has a premiership medal courtesy of LEthal, who managed to harness his own anger.

It would seem to me for much of his 2 years at st kilda Ross hasn't harnessed st kilda's potential. I've consistently argued our list i good and ross isn't. others have argued ross is good and the list is bad, and many have argued both are bad, a very few (mostly NOT the lyon apologists-probably joffaboy one of the few has succinctly put and im paraphrasing that its like a badly tuned engine) have argued both are good and need time.

perhaps at this late stage of the season, the players and lyon are achieving a middle ground where lyons vision has adjusted and the players vision have adjusted to find a way forward.

I do believe we have a team that can match it with Geelong, the difference between geelong of 2006 ad the Geelong of 07/08 is NOT list management, the core of their team is unchanged, they lack a fullforward, the lack a CHF, and yet they rain goals, but of discipline, confidence and obedience to the Team Ethic.

St Kilda does have star quality but we have rarely played as a team. Anyoe who saw our win against carlton in the end of 07 saw not a team beat carlton, but 22 individuals bludgeon a team on raw talent.

What we have shown in fits and starts is a capacity to play as a team, the second half of football against Hawthorn was the best football we played since 2005.

and whats started off as quarter here and a quarter there, is moving into a half here and a half there.

and against adelaide, 3 quarters....

put together 4 quarters of what we are capable of, and we can destroy anyone.

the thing is Geelong play 3 to 4 quarters of football like that EVERY week, and we play 1 or 2 quarters of football like that a week, THAT is the bridge we have to cross.

[SAINT JUMP]

i think is was the way it was done, with a 4 min video and the song, that was quite degrading. cj didnt deserve that.

[saintsRrising]

the thing is Geelong play 3 to 4 quarters of football like that EVERY week, and we play 1 or 2 quarters of football like that a week, THAT is the bridge we have to cross.

I said at the start of last season that RL's biggest challenge (and there were a number including injuries and list management!!) would be extracting sufficient workrate out of the team.

This has been the case since the streak finished...and is still the case now.