Why Charlie Gardiner is important.....
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Why Charlie Gardiner is important.....
I preface this by saying that I believe Charlie is an average AFL player, a very Good VFL player and possibly one of the weakest players in the senior side ATM....
So why is he important???
He hits up leads and presents as an option.....that is his strength....and that is what we need....along with that he is still nimble enough to provide defensive pressure.....He has very good hands/does most of his work up the field.....
Gwilt, Raph, Goddard, X and Gilbert are all flankers/wingers by nature and have only pinch hit with success as a 3rd fwd.....to play the role successfully you need to draw the ball or Draw your opponent away from the main targets....
but with our current set up the mid size fwd will need to play as the #2 fwd at CHF ..... when Kosi is on the Ball (Roo needs to go to FF to become the Goal kicker).....I am not sure the flankers have the knowledge to play the role of CHF....having rarely done it.
When Kosi is fwd.....Roo is at CHF....the third fwd needs to be an alternative target to draw the heat of the 'big 2'.....
Gardiner has played this role his whole career......a Junior CHF/VFL CHF and a HFF at AFL......and he knows how to lead up the ground - it is his bread and butter......
In short.....he is not a great player, but is extremely important to our structure.....otherwise we become one dimensional and predictable....he can be a target inside 50......a conduit into f50.....or a decoy on the likes of Harley who disrespect their opponent...
Aaron Hamill would be very Nice........
So why is he important???
He hits up leads and presents as an option.....that is his strength....and that is what we need....along with that he is still nimble enough to provide defensive pressure.....He has very good hands/does most of his work up the field.....
Gwilt, Raph, Goddard, X and Gilbert are all flankers/wingers by nature and have only pinch hit with success as a 3rd fwd.....to play the role successfully you need to draw the ball or Draw your opponent away from the main targets....
but with our current set up the mid size fwd will need to play as the #2 fwd at CHF ..... when Kosi is on the Ball (Roo needs to go to FF to become the Goal kicker).....I am not sure the flankers have the knowledge to play the role of CHF....having rarely done it.
When Kosi is fwd.....Roo is at CHF....the third fwd needs to be an alternative target to draw the heat of the 'big 2'.....
Gardiner has played this role his whole career......a Junior CHF/VFL CHF and a HFF at AFL......and he knows how to lead up the ground - it is his bread and butter......
In short.....he is not a great player, but is extremely important to our structure.....otherwise we become one dimensional and predictable....he can be a target inside 50......a conduit into f50.....or a decoy on the likes of Harley who disrespect their opponent...
Aaron Hamill would be very Nice........
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And he has been slotting the odd goal for us when he gets it inside 50!! We certainly do look more balanced?? when he is in the team. And the improved form of Schneider has certainly added to our scoring capacity now as well. But Chucky, particularly over the last 2 weeks has been doing an important job for us - without all the glamour and fanfare.
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- Nick Riewoldt. May 19th 2009.
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Re: Why Carlie Gardiner is important.....
i know exactly what you are saying, marto. forward structure is important and hasn't been a strength for us all season.
problem is, who to drop to get two very good players (ball and X) back into the side? eddy might be one. charlie would be another candidate.
some suggested cj goes out, but i think that would be a mistake.
problem is, who to drop to get two very good players (ball and X) back into the side? eddy might be one. charlie would be another candidate.
some suggested cj goes out, but i think that would be a mistake.
Last edited by bigcarl on Wed 27 Aug 2008 11:57am, edited 1 time in total.
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Good explination Mart,
But I worry about his decision-making & disposal. He has the tendency to easily turnover the ball when under pressure.
What about raph clarke? He has some forward experience (been tried there successfully in the vfl), is far more skillful, and better when the ball hits the ground. Probably not great atm as a leading marking forward, but if his confidence continues to grow, he has far more upside than c. gardiner.
But I worry about his decision-making & disposal. He has the tendency to easily turnover the ball when under pressure.
What about raph clarke? He has some forward experience (been tried there successfully in the vfl), is far more skillful, and better when the ball hits the ground. Probably not great atm as a leading marking forward, but if his confidence continues to grow, he has far more upside than c. gardiner.
3 Rotations for me
HF: MILNE - RIEWOLDT - X/EDDY/JONES/BALL/BIRSS/DAL/HARVEY
F: SCHNIEDER - KOSI - GWILT/GARDINER
ALTERNATE......... kosi in the ruck
HF: SCHNIEDER - C.GARDINER - X/EDDY/JONES/BALL/BIRSS/DAL/HARV
F: MILNE - RIEWOLDT - GWILT/RAPH
ALTERNATE......Riewoldt on the wing
HF: GWILT/RAPH - C.GARDINER - X/EDDY/JONES/BALL/BIRSS/DAL/HARV
F: MILNE - KOSI - SCHNIEDER
HF: MILNE - RIEWOLDT - X/EDDY/JONES/BALL/BIRSS/DAL/HARVEY
F: SCHNIEDER - KOSI - GWILT/GARDINER
ALTERNATE......... kosi in the ruck
HF: SCHNIEDER - C.GARDINER - X/EDDY/JONES/BALL/BIRSS/DAL/HARV
F: MILNE - RIEWOLDT - GWILT/RAPH
ALTERNATE......Riewoldt on the wing
HF: GWILT/RAPH - C.GARDINER - X/EDDY/JONES/BALL/BIRSS/DAL/HARV
F: MILNE - KOSI - SCHNIEDER
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Can Allen play the 'decoy forward' role?
Attributes are totally polar opposites to Gardiner. He's slow(er), but has good hands and can take a great pack mark, or contest one out.
Can't run through the midfield/wing like Gardiner can. But I reckon he's good for 2 to 4 goals a game, where Gardiner is good for 0 to 2. The added potency would mean you can't just put your running defender onto him, like you probably could with Gardiner, as he doesn't hurt you offensively.
Attributes are totally polar opposites to Gardiner. He's slow(er), but has good hands and can take a great pack mark, or contest one out.
Can't run through the midfield/wing like Gardiner can. But I reckon he's good for 2 to 4 goals a game, where Gardiner is good for 0 to 2. The added potency would mean you can't just put your running defender onto him, like you probably could with Gardiner, as he doesn't hurt you offensively.
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A very welcome discussion Big Mart.BigMart wrote:His decision making is a query - I agree.......also is for Gwilt/Raph....
None of them are cemented AFL players.....
I believe Gardner has a better understanding of how to play as a marking fwd, and will draw the footy on the lead better than the other two......
Too often, our players are rated purely in terms of where they fit on the scale of GOP to Star. CG is one the "bottom 6" players ATM.
Therefore, we should look at the respective roles of "B6" players in the team structure context.
CG's role happens to be up forward, and I think he gives a good 3rd option, and takes the heat off Roo. He can also drop back and create some problems for opp should they wish to double tag Roo.
That said, as long as he is playing his "role" according to instructions, then I'm cool with him keeping his place.
It will be interesting to see if he keeps his place. I still don't know if X is a certainty for finals due to his lack of match fitness.
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
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Of those 3... Eddy would be most likely to go IMO.BigMart wrote:X will not replace Gardiner IMO.........they are very different players....the side has good balance ATM
He could replace.....CJ, Eddy, Raph, Gram......
Allen is very much a KPP......I think we will lose fwd pressure with 2/3 talls inside F50.....Allen is not ready......
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
He only becomes important if he is used. Most defences cheat against us.
Players play off their man to help the guy playing on Roo. So if we always
try to hit up Roo then they double/ triple team him, the ball comes to ground
and they have the numbers. You actually need to go through that option to
keep the opposition honest. Quite frankly we don't do that often enough.
I've being to games where Gardiner or Eddy make a lot of leads and the
ball ends up going to a contest.
Players play off their man to help the guy playing on Roo. So if we always
try to hit up Roo then they double/ triple team him, the ball comes to ground
and they have the numbers. You actually need to go through that option to
keep the opposition honest. Quite frankly we don't do that often enough.
I've being to games where Gardiner or Eddy make a lot of leads and the
ball ends up going to a contest.
Gardiner will be a massive liability come finals time due to his pathetically soft attack on the ball.... He has no idea how to hit a contest hard, and his supposed forward pressure is non existant...
You simply cannot have weak, soft players come finals... There is a difference between inside and outside players, and both are needed, but Charlie takes it to another level.... He must be dropped this week...
Allen for all his lack of possessions and speed, hits the man and the ball hard, and this counts far more than Charlie's cheap wing lead marks....
Not surprised that you rate him tho Bigmart.. you seem to take a liking to the squibs....
You simply cannot have weak, soft players come finals... There is a difference between inside and outside players, and both are needed, but Charlie takes it to another level.... He must be dropped this week...
Allen for all his lack of possessions and speed, hits the man and the ball hard, and this counts far more than Charlie's cheap wing lead marks....
Not surprised that you rate him tho Bigmart.. you seem to take a liking to the squibs....
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AgreedWayneJudson42 wrote:Of those 3... Eddy would be most likely to go IMO.BigMart wrote:X will not replace Gardiner IMO.........they are very different players....the side has good balance ATM
He could replace.....CJ, Eddy, Raph, Gram......
Allen is very much a KPP......I think we will lose fwd pressure with 2/3 talls inside F50.....Allen is not ready......
hahaha that's priceless Sobraz, coming from a poster who had Barry Brooks as his avatar.Sobraz wrote:Gardiner will be a massive liability come finals time due to his pathetically soft attack on the ball.... He has no idea how to hit a contest hard, and his supposed forward pressure is non existant...
You simply cannot have weak, soft players come finals... There is a difference between inside and outside players, and both are needed, but Charlie takes it to another level.... He must be dropped this week...
Allen for all his lack of possessions and speed, hits the man and the ball hard, and this counts far more than Charlie's cheap wing lead marks....
Not surprised that you rate him tho Bigmart.. you seem to take a liking to the squibs....
Hilarious stuff!
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We had squidd for dinner last night. On the BBQ with fresh chilli.TimeToShineFellas wrote:AgreedWayneJudson42 wrote:Of those 3... Eddy would be most likely to go IMO.BigMart wrote:X will not replace Gardiner IMO.........they are very different players....the side has good balance ATM
He could replace.....CJ, Eddy, Raph, Gram......
Allen is very much a KPP......I think we will lose fwd pressure with 2/3 talls inside F50.....Allen is not ready......
hahaha that's priceless Sobraz, coming from a poster who had Barry Brooks as his avatar.Sobraz wrote:Gardiner will be a massive liability come finals time due to his pathetically soft attack on the ball.... He has no idea how to hit a contest hard, and his supposed forward pressure is non existant...
You simply cannot have weak, soft players come finals... There is a difference between inside and outside players, and both are needed, but Charlie takes it to another level.... He must be dropped this week...
Allen for all his lack of possessions and speed, hits the man and the ball hard, and this counts far more than Charlie's cheap wing lead marks....
Not surprised that you rate him tho Bigmart.. you seem to take a liking to the squibs....
Hilarious stuff!
Sobraz... or should that be Dumbaz? Another keyboard hero. Give it a rest mate. Go to training, and look GArdiner in the eye and call him a squibb. Pretty gutless act to do it on a forum IMO.
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
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ok, but still think gardiner's negatives are greater than gwilt or raph, both of which aslo give us more flexibility.His decision making is a query - I agree.......also is for Gwilt/Raph....
None of them are cemented AFL players.....
I believe Gardner has a better understanding of how to play as a marking fwd, and will draw the footy on the lead better than the other two......
We don't have a hamil or steve jonstone, but using a weak substitute may hurt us more than benefit us....
RL is obviously trying out that tactic, but with more quality mids becoming available over the next week or 2 (Ball, X, Mini), he may choose to sacrifice that plan, and go for more flexibilty & skill through the run, carry & mobility aspect of the game...
no i don't like 'squibs'........especially keyboard ones......I just laugh at morons who call AFL footballers 'squibs'.....
You know very little, so I won't waste ant time discussing it with you......and until you play AFL footy, or even State league footy at CHF....you are not qualified to make such a call
BTW - I am getting on now, but would back myself to give you a football lesson![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
You know very little, so I won't waste ant time discussing it with you......and until you play AFL footy, or even State league footy at CHF....you are not qualified to make such a call
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
BTW - I am getting on now, but would back myself to give you a football lesson
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
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