To those who booed our chipping in the last 5 mins

[my les foote]

I just don't understand it. Especially at the end of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd quarters. We did it today in the third with about two minutes to go. All we ended up doing was turning it over and giving them a shot at goal that they should have scored from.

And we had Adelaide on the ropes in the last quarter. As already pointed out, every goal we got boosted our percentage and pulled theirs down. We don't get that luxury next week.

[Batnoe]

I have now learnt and others should too, if we win and we cant catch on percentage to slow it down, is really worth the risk of an injury?!!

Have you thought about WHY we 'cant catch on percentage' - putting the cue in the rack over the season has probably cost us 5th spot!

No, losing winnable games against WCE and Collingwood the first time that have cost us 4th/5th.

Exactly, it is the games we should have won and lost that cost us positions on the ladder

If we are 2 goals up in the grand final with 5 minutes to go, we will be the best drilled team to run down the clock... they are practicing for when they need it!

GET OVER IT

It IS the games lost - thanks for the obvious - but it is also percentage that seperates teams that have the same amount of losses. Look at 2006. Picture next week - we may well fall short of the crows by the equivalent of 2 extra goals today.
If you're worried about injuries then you're in the wrong sport.
I wouldn't boo, but i'd have a groan - the way to perfection is to never stop - think of no.35 and why he's such a champ. Ever see him say 'that'll do, might twinge a muscle'
Fair Dinkum!

could also blame it on 1 quarter out of 4 that we play terrible in, if we won all quarters our percentage would be better, there is no point in going flat out with 5 minutes to go where you can get an injury and it might be totally level anyway as either team can get the ball as the ball will be in dispute

[Mr Magic]

I have now learnt and others should too, if we win and we cant catch on percentage to slow it down, is really worth the risk of an injury?!!

Have you thought about WHY we 'cant catch on percentage' - putting the cue in the rack over the season has probably cost us 5th spot!

No, losing winnable games against WCE and Collingwood the first time that have cost us 4th/5th.

Exactly, it is the games we should have won and lost that cost us positions on the ladder

If we are 2 goals up in the grand final with 5 minutes to go, we will be the best drilled team to run down the clock... they are practicing for when they need it!

GET OVER IT

It IS the games lost - thanks for the obvious - but it is also percentage that seperates teams that have the same amount of losses. Look at 2006. Picture next week - we may well fall short of the crows by the equivalent of 2 extra goals today.
If you're worried about injuries then you're in the wrong sport.
I wouldn't boo, but i'd have a groan - the way to perfection is to never stop - think of no.35 and why he's such a champ. Ever see him say 'that'll do, might twinge a muscle'
Fair Dinkum!

No I actually heard him say in a radio interview after the game that the reason he has played the last 5 years is 'rotations' - the fact that he can play 50-70% of the game has prolonged his career.

To take your pov 1 step further you shouldn't rotate/rest your best players because keeping them on will allow you to play better and score more.
There is a balance between expending energy and saving energy.

[saint66au]

I will 100% without he slightest shadow of doubt garauntee that if grammy had torn through the middle of the ground, had 3 bounces, then twanged a hammy or done his AC getting tackled...this FOrum would be screaning its head off complining "why did he do it FFS there was no need we were 48 points in front!!!"

Look, you dont have to agree with the tactics, but hells, bells, to openly sledge and boo the way some people were I just thought smacked of being selfish supporters, putting their own excitememnt value ahead of the team's best interests.

Yeah every goal we get increases our %, but everyone they get decreases it. Damned if you do and damned if you dont.

[my les foote]

Maybe we should stop bending over to pick up the ball as well. Birss could have gotten a very serious injury from doing that.

[markp]

I think it's a fair tactic to preserve body and lead... and maybe the more we can master it when there is no danger of losing, the more confident we will be attempting it when there is.

[Devilhead]

Next time we are 8 goals up deep into the last quarter and start chipping the ball around we should wildly cheer every possession

The crowds do this in the English Premier League when a team keeps possession for an extended period of time passing the ball to one another without the opposition touching it.

That would be awesome to hear!!

[desertsaint]

...To take your pov 1 step further you shouldn't rotate/rest your best players because keeping them on will allow you to play better and score more.
There is a balance between expending energy and saving energy.

NO - you rotate your players so that your team has the energy to continue to play and run at 100%.

I'll never forget playing in a game where the other team led by 4 goals with five minutes on the clock - they played keepy off and mentally we jumped up knowing they were playing to protect a win - we were playing to gain one - and we did!

I'd rather our team practised never stopping in case we are down with a few minutes to play rather than practising icing the clock in case we are up.

[joffaboy]

lol @ Mick the grumpy old man

Dont be too harsh mate, habits of footy fans are hard to break.

Yelling "Man up" when the team is zoning back, "kick it" when the team is working the ball out of defence or around the wing, getting it to a player in space, "get on your man" when it is patently obvious that in defence the team doesn't have a man but a space to fill etc etc.

Booing in the last five minutes of a game when we are 8 goals up is just typical of supporters who have little idea of the bigger picture.

I would have liked another goal or two, but was more than content to get the win done and dusted.

Oh BTW - injuries - St.Kilda - ZERO.

[Mr Magic]

...To take your pov 1 step further you shouldn't rotate/rest your best players because keeping them on will allow you to play better and score more.
There is a balance between expending energy and saving energy.

NO - you rotate your players so that your team has the energy to continue to play and run at 100%.

I'll never forget playing in a game where the other team led by 4 goals with five minutes on the clock - they played keepy off and mentally we jumped up knowing they were playing to protect a win - we were playing to gain one - and we did!

I'd rather our team practised never stopping in case we are down with a few minutes to play rather than practising icing the clock in case we are up.

I'm sure your experience is much more pertinent than that of those in charge of our gameplan and those in charge of gameplans at nearly all AFL Clubs - I say nearly because I cannot remember if I've seen Geelong do it this year, whilst I'm pretty certain that I've seen all other teams employ similar tactics?

WHy can't you understand that this tactic is employed by the team after consultation between, the coaches, players and fitness staff? Why do you think you have more/better knowledge on such matters than they do?

[Eastern]

lol @ Mick the grumpy old man

And, he is really starting to show that age of late !!

[saint66au]

lol @ Mick the grumpy old man

And, he is really starting to show that age of late !!

Oi!!!!

Ill take you on in the "whos got the more grey hair" stakes anyday sunshine

Joffaboy, IM sure you dont have to put up with that kind of behaviour on Level 2. Once the game is dusted, theres ballet seats to book, share prices to discuss and generally bemoaing that no-one except for op-shops sells jackets with leather patches on the sleeves any ore :P:P

[desertsaint]

...To take your pov 1 step further you shouldn't rotate/rest your best players because keeping them on will allow you to play better and score more.
There is a balance between expending energy and saving energy.

NO - you rotate your players so that your team has the energy to continue to play and run at 100%.

I'll never forget playing in a game where the other team led by 4 goals with five minutes on the clock - they played keepy off and mentally we jumped up knowing they were playing to protect a win - we were playing to gain one - and we did!

I'd rather our team practised never stopping in case we are down with a few minutes to play rather than practising icing the clock in case we are up.

I'm sure your experience is much more pertinent than that of those in charge of our gameplan and those in charge of gameplans at nearly all AFL Clubs - I say nearly because I cannot remember if I've seen Geelong do it this year, whilst I'm pretty certain that I've seen all other teams employ similar tactics?

WHy can't you understand that this tactic is employed by the team after consultation between, the coaches, players and fitness staff? Why do you think you have more/better knowledge on such matters than they do?

A big assumption - why would i think that? what i've done is given my opinion on why fans booed - as i stated i wouldn't boo - and that is because either tactic is feasible and you could argue till the end of time which is better - play it safe or keep grinding.

This forum is full of differences of opinion - the expert players and former players in the media are full of differences of opinion. Who is right - that's up to individuals to decide based on the arguments presented. WHy can't you understand that?

I've never before kept on back and forth following up an argument and don't really want to - i've given my 2 cents worth. But remember if you dismiss an argument based on the fact that it is at odds with what our team management is doing then why bother holding a forum?

[Mr Magic]

...To take your pov 1 step further you shouldn't rotate/rest your best players because keeping them on will allow you to play better and score more.
There is a balance between expending energy and saving energy.

NO - you rotate your players so that your team has the energy to continue to play and run at 100%.

I'll never forget playing in a game where the other team led by 4 goals with five minutes on the clock - they played keepy off and mentally we jumped up knowing they were playing to protect a win - we were playing to gain one - and we did!

I'd rather our team practised never stopping in case we are down with a few minutes to play rather than practising icing the clock in case we are up.

I'm sure your experience is much more pertinent than that of those in charge of our gameplan and those in charge of gameplans at nearly all AFL Clubs - I say nearly because I cannot remember if I've seen Geelong do it this year, whilst I'm pretty certain that I've seen all other teams employ similar tactics?

WHy can't you understand that this tactic is employed by the team after consultation between, the coaches, players and fitness staff? Why do you think you have more/better knowledge on such matters than they do?

A big assumption - why would i think that? what i've done is given my opinion on why fans booed - as i stated i wouldn't boo - and that is because either tactic is feasible and you could argue till the end of time which is better - play it safe or keep grinding.

This forum is full of differences of opinion - the expert players and former players in the media are full of differences of opinion. Who is right - that's up to individuals to decide based on the arguments presented. WHy can't you understand that?

I've never before kept on back and forth following up an argument and don't really want to - i've given my 2 cents worth. But remember if you dismiss an argument based on the fact that it is at odds with what our team management is doing then why bother holding a forum?

So we can have a mutual admiration society of course!

[joffaboy]

lol @ Mick the grumpy old man

And, he is really starting to show that age of late !!

Oi!!!!

Ill take you on in the "whos got the more grey hair" stakes anyday sunshine

Joffaboy, IM sure you dont have to put up with that kind of behaviour on Level 2. Once the game is dusted, theres ballet seats to book, share prices to discuss and generally bemoaing that no-one except for op-shops sells jackets with leather patches on the sleeves any ore :P:P

Actually couldn't hear the booing through the glass, and anyway we all had our back to the footy discussing our share portfolio's over a cheeky little Barossa red one of our Adelaide guests had brought over in the private jet.

Who won and what was all the kefuffle about some player with some big number???

Anyway i was yelling "go No.35" because apparently he was a good player of something.

[Eastern]

lol @ Mick the grumpy old man

And, he is really starting to show that age of late !!

Oi!!!!

Ill take you on in the "whos got the more hair" stakes anyday sunshine

I accept that challenge !!

[St Fidelius]

OK..I have to vent here. When we decided in the last 5 minutes of the game to "shut up shop" I was disgusted to hear some people on the MW actually boo our players...or at least the tactics. Some of them may read this, some I may have organised tickets for next week, but frankly I dont care. I was appalled.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Footy is no longer played "down the guts" and permanantly man on man. Handball is a legitimate tactic. To those who insist on screaming "kick the bloody thing" all game..sheesh...get back to Moorabbin in the 70s cos it aint gonna happen in 2008.

Really got on my goat that some people are never happy. Here we were, 48 points in front of a Top 4 contender with 5 minutes to go, honouring the great man, and some people still want all-out attacking risk-taking footy and hurl sarcastic abuse if it sint deleivered. They are of course the first to scream if a turnover while doing that costs a goal.

Wake up to yourselves and stop being so damned selfish and locked in the past. . Ever thought the players might have been totally buggered?? Easy to judge from your high vantage point 100m away..not.

Looking forward to the footy education some people will gain next weekend by being down on L1 and seeing things a bit more as the players do. Maybe then the screams of abuse to players who cant see others in space might just lessen a bit.

/rant

Yep some supporters really don't have a clue...

the constant rants from the back of me of "just kick it" when it's obvious that there is no one to kick to is amazing....

The moment the side kicks it when under this pressure it gets turned over and the fans from behind keep quiet until it happens again...

NO FLOWING CLUE!

the contstant rants from the back of me of " don't kick it to Max, he can't kick"...

The moment Max kicks to a player and they are quiet...

The moment the Saints kick to Max again the same rant goes on...

NO FLOWING CLUE!

I suppose that's the problem with having a reserved seat...

some times you sit next to numb skulls that have no FLOWING IDEA!

[jonesy]

I can see both sides of the story here,but have to admit,I HATE IT!!

It's ok to soak the clock up to preserve a lead late in a game,I have no problem with that,but when the opposition is done and dusted you go for the kill! We need to promote POSITIVITY into our game ,especially going into the finals!!!! Interesting Bomber Thompson came out yesterday and said he wants to give West Coast the hardest day of there life next week....he enforces a positive attitude into there game,we don't. It's not as if it's a one off either,it's been happening all year. As soon as the 'tempo footy' signal (ball above the head) go's up ,I shudder.

Frigging Dal santo gave the 'tempo footy' signal when he was kicking out from a behind in the 3rd FFS!!!. Possibly the worst time to be playing 'tempo footy' ...you can't go backwards any further from a behind,and it's at a time when you need players running as hard as they can into space on a kick out.

There is a time for it no doubt,as I said, to preserve a narrow lead or to soak up the remaining 20 seconds before a siren. However we are overdoing it way too much. I know we had to sure up our defencive pressure from the old style, but it seems negativity is almost our preffered option these days.

For what it's worth i thought we were great yesterday after the first 15 mins,but please,let's not go over the top with 'tempo footy'

[Otiman]

In the energy expenditure stakes, is there a particular gamestyle that forces the opponent to use a lot more energy than us?

The "chipping around" probably comes closest because it forces opposition to stick with an opponent, while it's reasonably easy to lead and find space.

[Buckets]

OK..I have to vent here. When we decided in the last 5 minutes of the game to "shut up shop" I was disgusted to hear some people on the MW actually boo our players...or at least the tactics. Some of them may read this, some I may have organised tickets for next week, but frankly I dont care. I was appalled.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Footy is no longer played "down the guts" and permanantly man on man. Handball is a legitimate tactic. To those who insist on screaming "kick the bloody thing" all game..sheesh...get back to Moorabbin in the 70s cos it aint gonna happen in 2008.

Really got on my goat that some people are never happy. Here we were, 48 points in front of a Top 4 contender with 5 minutes to go, honouring the great man, and some people still want all-out attacking risk-taking footy and hurl sarcastic abuse if it sint deleivered. They are of course the first to scream if a turnover while doing that costs a goal.

Wake up to yourselves and stop being so damned selfish and locked in the past. . Ever thought the players might have been totally buggered?? Easy to judge from your high vantage point 100m away..not.

Looking forward to the footy education some people will gain next weekend by being down on L1 and seeing things a bit more as the players do. Maybe then the screams of abuse to players who cant see others in space might just lessen a bit.

/rant

Couldn't have put it better Michael! Absolutely disgusted in the behaviour of some of the "supporters".
I was sitting near one guy who for the first quarter and a half continually bagged the crap out of Kosi even when he wasn't near the ball! I took it upon myself to cheer every little thing that Kosi did to the delight of those around me and did he shut his mouth quick smart!
And then i got to witness our supporters booing our players when they decided to rush a behind so as to restart their attack. I would rather them do that then get caught holding the pud and have a goal kicked against us!
Is it just me or are some of our supporters becoming more 'collingwood' like in the ability to bag our own players at the match? I don't think i have seen our guys do it like they did yesterday. It made me sick at points!

[iwantmeseats]

I dont bag our players period, nor do I boo. But sorry, Kosi was beyond woeful yesterday bar one great mark. I back him, and want to keep him, but he was very very poor yesterday.

Some people bag players, so what? Dont let it get to you! Let the babies have their bottles. At the end of the day they are saints fans, you might not like the way they go about, but we are all on the same train.

[Buckets]

I dont bag our players period, nor do I boo. But sorry, Kosi was beyond woeful yesterday bar one great mark. I back him, and want to keep him, but he was very very poor yesterday.

Some people bag players, so what? Dont let it get to you! Let the babies have their bottles. At the end of the day they are saints fans, you might not like the way they go about, but we are all on the same train.

Disagree with you. Kosi may not have had plenty of the ball however he did his job and that is all you need. He was instrumental in that second quarter. Might not have got the pill put down forward made sure that Rutten had to go to him which meant that Roo was free and the game started to swing! He was ok around the ground and went the second effort.
Kosi does the job that Ross asks of him and that is all you can ask for!

[WayneJudson42]

Sensible move IMO. Normally the tempo stuff comes in when the runners signals it. BTW, tempo isn't only aout milking the clock... it's about controlling play until an option to attack presents itself... or stopping a run on.

I think we showed enough killer instinct in the last, and put them away. Great move to bench players that you need come finals time.

Don't know what all the fuss is about. Booing your own after an 8 goal win? Get a clue people

This rotten tempo footy that everyone hates kept them goaless in the 4th.

The players and coaches had better start listening to the supprters soon. Play attacking footy all the time. Attack, attack, attack. Stuff the injuries.

Better to lose finals being entertaining, than win them with tempo footy

[Raven]

I don't think the point of this discussion is whether or not the chipping shutdown style is right or wrong, but rather this: it's wrong to boo your own team regardless of what they're doing.

We may not always like what we see, but booing the team you support - it just makes me feel ill.

[Sam23]

I love the classic

"JUST KICK IT LONG"


followed by the]


"AND WHO THE BLOODY HELL WAS THAT TOO?"


on the mw.


disgrace.


i don't understand why people hate rushing a point so much either?

Gram noone to kick to, Adelaide's zone fully set, rushes a point, we run it up the other end and score.


Don't understand some peoples logic.