Do we overrate our youngsters more than any other club?

[Spinner]

Just thought Id throw this list into the discussion..its the amount of times frm 2004-present that a Clubs had a player nominated for the Rising Star award

West Coast 11
Brisbane 10
Melbourne 9
Richmond 9
Collingwood 8
Port Adelaide 8
Carlton 7
Hawthorn 7
Essendon 6
Geelong 6
Bulldogs 6
North Melbourne 5
Fremantle 3
Adelaide 2
Sydney 2
St Kilda 2


Discuss

Thats Disgusting........Armitage and R Clarke?

[WayneJudson42]

Just thought Id throw this list into the discussion..its the amount of times frm 2004-present that a Clubs had a player nominated for the Rising Star award

West Coast 11
Brisbane 10
Melbourne 9
Richmond 9
Collingwood 8
Port Adelaide 8
Carlton 7
Hawthorn 7
Essendon 6
Geelong 6
Bulldogs 6
North Melbourne 5
Fremantle 3
Adelaide 2
Sydney 2
St Kilda 2


Discuss

Thats Disgusting........Armitage and R Clarke?

Not 100% on this, but don't interstate clubs have the advantage of hiding players in the monir leagues or something similar and developing them before they draft them.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[BallBanger]

Hindsight can be a wonderful thing...or in this case quite depressing.

It is now pretty clear that the Saints kept JB way too long well past the era of recruiters picking guys mainly based on just their impressions and gut feel. His last draft as the head recruiter was 2006 and really change should have occureda lot earlier.

Now extra resources may have helped, but the bigger problem to me would seem to be that the weightings on the various skills sets incuding attitude was up the duff.

Allowing this situation to continue in this way for so long, when other clubs had moved to much more rigorous examination and selection processes I am afraid was gross incompetence and is biting us on the bum HARD at present.

While there is much discussion about coaches, gameplans etc etc......getting the right cattle in the first place (and then developing it etc etc) is hugely important at any AFL Club that wants to be successful.

When you look at the lack of footskills for example of the players as a group compared to other AFL clubs you really have to ask WTF was the selection criteria?

Hindsight nothing..I get abused when I complain about their drafting then I have to cop "its easy to be wise in retrospect"

I know its easy from my side of the fence but their recruiting has been dumb over the last few yrs....

Our membership has to drop off because every supporter loves excitement coming through but we have none (maybe Steven)....

Its important that we build for our future not short term for the admin/coach who won't be around in a few yrs

[saintsRrising]

Hindsight can be a wonderful thing...or in this case quite depressing.

It is now pretty clear that the Saints kept JB way too long well past the era of recruiters picking guys mainly based on just their impressions and gut feel. His last draft as the head recruiter was 2006 and really change should have occureda lot earlier.

Now extra resources may have helped, but the bigger problem to me would seem to be that the weightings on the various skills sets incuding attitude was up the duff.

Allowing this situation to continue in this way for so long, when other clubs had moved to much more rigorous examination and selection processes I am afraid was gross incompetence and is biting us on the bum HARD at present.

While there is much discussion about coaches, gameplans etc etc......getting the right cattle in the first place (and then developing it etc etc) is hugely important at any AFL Club that wants to be successful.

When you look at the lack of footskills for example of the players as a group compared to other AFL clubs you really have to ask WTF was the selection criteria?

Hindsight nothing..I get abused when I complain about their drafting then I have to cop "its easy to be wise in retrospect"

I know its easy from my side of the fence but their recruiting has been dumb over the last few yrs....

Our membership has to drop off because every supporter loves excitement coming through but we have none (maybe Steven)....

Its important that we build for our future not short term for the admin/coach who won't be around in a few yrs

Well actually I have been posting on this matter for several years now....though the selections are looking poorer by the year.

[WayneJudson42]

So maybe we can't avoid the "cycle" and have to make some hard decisions about rebuilding? Coz being 9th or mid table means you miss out on the cream, and risk becoming another Richmond.

[saint66au]

The two were Raph in 2005 and Gilbo in 2007

Roo, Kosi, X and Joey were all nominated in prior years but that probably reflects on our good years 2004-05 than where we are now

Oh..you can add Birss to that list from his Bulldog days..

[WayneJudson42]

The two were Raph in 2005 and Gilbo in 2007

Roo, Kosi, X and Joey were all nominated in prior years but that probably reflects on our good years 2004-05 than where we are now

Oh..you can add Birss to that list from his Bulldog days..

Cool. can we claim Birss? Just like we claim Russell Crowe, OUR Princess Mary, and Aussie Joe Bugner?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Just thought Id throw this list into the discussion..its the amount of times frm 2004-present that a Clubs had a player nominated for the Rising Star award

West Coast 11
Brisbane 10
Melbourne 9
Richmond 9
Collingwood 8
Port Adelaide 8
Carlton 7
Hawthorn 7
Essendon 6
Geelong 6
Bulldogs 6
North Melbourne 5
Fremantle 3
Adelaide 2
Sydney 2
St Kilda 2


Discuss

Just to go against the site line and be annoying, I'll point out that since both those winners are still on the list, we've got 4 nominees from 2003 (Ball - who finished 3rd in final voting, Goddard, Schneider, Montagna), 2 from 2002 (Reiwoldt, X Clarke) including the winner (Reiwoldt), and the winner from 2001 (Kosi... and 2 more Saints nominees are no longer running around, Beetham and James Begley), perhaps the rising star isn't so much an indication of drafting as being able to hold their own in the AFL early?

Go through the nominees and you'll find a lot of "if only" kind of players. i.e. early signs weren't backed up by improvement. Personally, I think the cutoff for nomination is too young. Cut it off on games, but surely someone like Bradd Dalziell is exactly what that award is looking for as a nominee.

If people are really worried about this, personally I don't believe it's the cattel we draft, or even development that affects this - it's giving a kid a role where they can either shine or completely stuff up that would drive a nomination. Play armo in the middle all game and he might replicate his rd. 1 numbers and get a nod... he might also get blown away. Those who can handle the pressure consistently (ala Reiwoldt, Selwood, Mitchell) are not just going to get nominated, they'll give winning the award a good shake.

It's been a while since we were handng those opportunities out/ taking those risks. What I really want is the 2008 dev approach taken with 2002 type youth getting 2004/5 type results... but for now I'll deal with us not being in a place really suited to nominations for the rising star.

[spert]

It's pretty noticable that a lot of our recruits in the 2000s have ordinary footskills and are one-paced runners..obviously our recruiters didn't see those attributes as important...that is the ability to deliver the ball by foot, and kick 50mts accurately, as well as being able to break packs with acceleration.

[n1ck]

We're St.Kilda supporters.

We love the club.

We get excited.


Isnt it our right to get excited about our younger prospects??

[aussiejones]

Its done little to some of the clubs

Melb, Rich, Caaaarlton

[saintjake]

yeah we do.
because we had such success with roo
and since him we get dud youngsters.
so we over hype them in hope.
not in evidence.