The Coach Baggers come out once again

[meher baba]

I want to look at this in a balanced fashion

I don't think Lyon has suddenly become a worse coach than a few weeks ago. Personally, I think he is still progressing up a steep learning curve (why Butterss and co chose to give him our Rolls Royce to learn on is a moot point, but that's history now)

He has been a poor match day coach all along. He is too game plan driven, and is too stubborn about waiting for his supposedly clever match ups to work rather than try something new before get too far behind

Malthouse is the best game day coach in the comp IMO. I always feared he would get them up on the day

Apart from matchups, we need to look at selections and recruitment. Too many pedestrian, low skill players IMO. And they certainly weren't all recruited in the GT era. Lyon undoubtedly favours that sort of player more than past coaches. Doesn't know how use Kosi and NDS and, if allowed, will probably drive them out of the club. Perhaps BJ too

I reckon we should keep Lyon and bring in a mentor for him. Someone to stop him from being so bloody stubborn!!

[philip]

i am not asking for some time for Ross, 18 months is enough i just cant work out why we can turn it on for 1 qtr and not 4, they just dont want to play or take it serious, Ross has done the right thing, Brought in ruckmen (yet still plays Blake in pinch hit) bring in more runners), it is the fact that they just kick it to Roo or to forward 50, never lower their eyes... i am sure they have been told to lower them

for all GT's faults he got the players 'up' more times than he didn't.

they may not have been the most talented list and i think we can all see that now but he got them playing for eachother and that is the biggest difference from what i see in the outer.

that committment just does not seem to be there. and i am not having a go at Ross, my comment should cut as deep with the players for not putting in as much as it cuts at Ross for not motivating them enough.

but the facts are that since Ross took over, our efforts have been too far apart, our best too far and too often from its worst and ultimately, the coach has to cop it as its his job to inspire, his job to get it right, his job to get them playing for him, themselves, their team mates, the jumper and us the supporters.

those people that blindly support Ross should question their own motivations just as the GT blind supporters needed to question themselves. and yes, some people could have argued that i was a GT supporter, but it was because i thought then as i do now, he was doing a good job with the players despite his many deficiancies and i believed if he was to be sacked it should not have been because of his relationship breakdown with the president.

anyway, that's my take it on the moment. very dissapointing, very insipid, the players need to question their own professional approach, their mateship in the club and Ross needs to question why he can not get the best out of the list and why they are not playing for eachother.

philip

[meher baba]

BTW

All this stuff about the list is all very well and fine as far as it goes. I would agree that the list has gotten worse lately, not because Thommo, powell, peckett and the overrated Penny are gone (that's right, put those 4 straight into the Eagles side and it wouldn't be languishing at the bottom any more!!)

Our main loss has been Hamill, along with the fact that many of our top players have had injury-ravaged careers: the development of BJ, Lenny, Ball, Goose, Kosi, X, Raph and even Riewoldt to some extent has been hampered by serious injury. We've been unusually unlucky (and I still maintain that the surface of the Dome has a lot to do with it)

The only question that matters now is that of how well Lyon is doing in getting the best out of the talent he has. For that, last year I'd give him 2 out of 10 and this year 4.5 out of 10 so far. He's improving, but he hasn't even taken us (relative to what he has to work with) to the same level of performance as GT yet
(about a 7 out of 10 IMO).
Forget about the "next level"!!

[Animal Enclosure]

I think Lyon is ok tactically but questions must be asked about how he gets the team 'up'.

I know that side of coaching isn't as important as it once was but FFS we are so flat when we should be breathing fire.

We knew the filth would come out gunning last night & yet we looked like we'd been sitting around on big cushions taking in some incense before the game.

[widereceiver]

I disagree with the tactic Lyon employs in the vast majority of games, adopting the corralling, damage-limitation style. We have conceded so many unassailable leads this way. It's like it's an over-reaction to our first spanking by the Bulldogs.

It's not enough to use GT's Saintskrieg, which was sussed out by all the good sides.

But the corralling thing does not work.
Repeat, the corralling thing, demonstrably, does not work.

Not only that, but it's as boring as doggie doo. Even when we beat mediocre sides, it's more fun to work out one's BAS.

coaching, smoaching.

[Junior]

I do agree that Goddard and Gwilt are being played out of position as is Raph Clarke when he plays.

Do not believe we are a top four side as Sydney, Kangaroos, Adelaide and Collingwood all play more consistently and with more heart than we do. Player for player on reputation we have a better list than these teams but if we look at actual output we are a level below them. Whether that is due to coaching or effort is debatable but we will not finish top four an i doubt now if we willl even make the eight.

[WayneJudson42]

I want to look at this in a balanced fashion

I don't think Lyon has suddenly become a worse coach than a few weeks ago. Personally, I think he is still progressing up a steep learning curve (why Butterss and co chose to give him our Rolls Royce to learn on is a moot point, but that's history now)

He has been a poor match day coach all along. He is too game plan driven, and is too stubborn about waiting for his supposedly clever match ups to work rather than try something new before get too far behind

Malthouse is the best game day coach in the comp IMO. I always feared he would get them up on the day

Apart from matchups, we need to look at selections and recruitment. Too many pedestrian, low skill players IMO. And they certainly weren't all recruited in the GT era. Lyon undoubtedly favours that sort of player more than past coaches. Doesn't know how use Kosi and NDS and, if allowed, will probably drive them out of the club. Perhaps BJ too

I reckon we should keep Lyon and bring in a mentor for him. Someone to stop him from being so bloody stubborn!!

I reckon you should apply for the job

Why throw in the line about GT era. You stated you want him sacked, so why BS us?

[st.byron]

Th performance of the players can't be looked at in isolation. Like any organisation, they respond to the management above.
Lyon is responsible for the continued lack of consistency. It's his job to get the players up mentally and his job on match day to use his resources to respond to what's happening on the field.
He is accountable for the consistent inconsistency.

[WayneJudson42]

BTW

All this stuff about the list is all very well and fine as far as it goes. I would agree that the list has gotten worse lately, not because Thommo, powell, peckett and the overrated Penny are gone (that's right, put those 4 straight into the Eagles side and it wouldn't be languishing at the bottom any more!!)

Our main loss has been Hamill, along with the fact that many of our top players have had injury-ravaged careers: the development of BJ, Lenny, Ball, Goose, Kosi, X, Raph and even Riewoldt to some extent has been hampered by serious injury. We've been unusually unlucky (and I still maintain that the surface of the Dome has a lot to do with it)

The only question that matters now is that of how well Lyon is doing in getting the best out of the talent he has. For that, last year I'd give him 2 out of 10 and this year 4.5 out of 10 so far. He's improving, but he hasn't even taken us (relative to what he has to work with) to the same level of performance as GT yet
(about a 7 out of 10 IMO).
Forget about the "next level"!!

So how do you rate GT's first 2 years?

[plugger66]

BTW

All this stuff about the list is all very well and fine as far as it goes. I would agree that the list has gotten worse lately, not because Thommo, powell, peckett and the overrated Penny are gone (that's right, put those 4 straight into the Eagles side and it wouldn't be languishing at the bottom any more!!)

Our main loss has been Hamill, along with the fact that many of our top players have had injury-ravaged careers: the development of BJ, Lenny, Ball, Goose, Kosi, X, Raph and even Riewoldt to some extent has been hampered by serious injury. We've been unusually unlucky (and I still maintain that the surface of the Dome has a lot to do with it)

The only question that matters now is that of how well Lyon is doing in getting the best out of the talent he has. For that, last year I'd give him 2 out of 10 and this year 4.5 out of 10 so far. He's improving, but he hasn't even taken us (relative to what he has to work with) to the same level of performance as GT yet
(about a 7 out of 10 IMO).
Forget about the "next level"!!

So how do you rate GT's first 2 years?

Thats like comparing Rob Harvey to Rob Eddy. GT got a side that was last on the ladder. RL got a side that won 14 games the previous year with a huge amount of injuries. Having said that is why do we care whis is the better coach. GT is gone and RL is doing the job.

[WayneJudson42]

i am not asking for some time for Ross, 18 months is enough i just cant work out why we can turn it on for 1 qtr and not 4, they just dont want to play or take it serious, Ross has done the right thing, Brought in ruckmen (yet still plays Blake in pinch hit) bring in more runners), it is the fact that they just kick it to Roo or to forward 50, never lower their eyes... i am sure they have been told to lower them

for all GT's faults he got the players 'up' more times than he didn't.

they may not have been the most talented list and i think we can all see that now but he got them playing for eachother and that is the biggest difference from what i see in the outer.

that committment just does not seem to be there. and i am not having a go at Ross, my comment should cut as deep with the players for not putting in as much as it cuts at Ross for not motivating them enough.

but the facts are that since Ross took over, our efforts have been too far apart, our best too far and too often from its worst and ultimately, the coach has to cop it as its his job to inspire, his job to get it right, his job to get them playing for him, themselves, their team mates, the jumper and us the supporters.

those people that blindly support Ross should question their own motivations just as the GT blind supporters needed to question themselves. and yes, some people could have argued that i was a GT supporter, but it was because i thought then as i do now, he was doing a good job with the players despite his many deficiancies and i believed if he was to be sacked it should not have been because of his relationship breakdown with the president.

anyway, that's my take it on the moment. very dissapointing, very insipid, the players need to question their own professional approach, their mateship in the club and Ross needs to question why he can not get the best out of the list and why they are not playing for eachother.

philip

FWIW, I don't blindly support RL. But he must be given time and every opportunity to succeed. If he fails, then sack him. No issues there.

However, we tend to forget that GT did SFA until mid 2003... almost 3 years. Yet we only remember 04 and 05. So let's be critical, but give RL the same opp IMO.

If he was that good, why couldn't he stop the rot in the 2 prelims??

I doubt that he got sacked because of his fallout with RB. The board would have had to make a collective decision. Mind you, the relationship would not have helped.

Had he been more flexible RE the football department and less stubborn, he may still be coaching today.

My mail is that moves were afoot back in 05 with a few palers and ex players dissatisfied with the way things were being run. I was also behind GT, and now he's gone. So I support RL.

If we want to harp back to the good old days, then elt's bring back Stan. At least he got us into a grand final in 97.

[Saints43]

So how do you rate GT's first 2 years?

Big top. Red nose. Square wheeled car.

Clown.

[The_Dud]

The dud only seems to pop up when we lose... when we won 4 in a row he was no where to be seen. i dont like losing like the bloke next to me, but at least he tries new things

excuse me?

i'm here the same whether we win, lose or draw, so maybe u should get a clue

my stance on Ross hasn't changed in nearly 2 years, he has yet to show anything, and i believe it is no coincidence that we have gone to one of, if not the lowest scoring team in the last two years ever since the coach, who has come from the most defensive club, has been here

to think otherwise is foolish

tell me what kind of football Geelong/Hawthorn/Bulldogs play, and then tell me what we do

[SainterX]

To all of you who support Ross Lyon to the hilt look at the Bulldogs game in Round 3.
45-8 at quarter time we were.

Do you really think that the players didn't like playing like they did in the 1st quarter and took it upon themselves to go into their shells?
Yep I am sure they love kicking less points in the first half against Collingwood then the Demons scored in the 2nd half against the most brutal team in the league, in the rain Friday night.


Rodney Eade is a good coach, but Ross should not be so bad to be out coached so easily by him, but he was, and still is.

Coming to the end of his 2nd year as St Kilda coach one would think he has had enough time to imprint his brand of football on the team.

Perhaps he has.

[SaintWodonga]

I was surprised witth only one change at last week's team selection. I thought that was an error going in.

[WayneJudson42]

So how do you rate GT's first 2 years?

Big top. Red nose. Square wheeled car.

Clown.

Me or GT?

[Bernard Shakey]

The problem is not the players (even if it is, it is the coach's job to get them to win).

Ross coaches to limit damage in the first quarter and then react to the opposition.

We are being killed by a negative coach who the game has passed by.

He would have been a good coach 3 or 4 years ago, but the game has moved on and he hasn't.