Do we extend Ross or do we let him walk the tightrope?

[WayneJudson42]

Clarke, Gehrig, MG & King aren't what I'd call long term decisions.

True JB, but let's look at these in isolation...

Clarke: got drafted to bolster ruck division. Was only intended as a backup, but we had no one else.

Gardiner: see above.

As there were no other feasible options IIRC, then what else to do? Kosi injury prone at the time... Rix?

The idea is to bring in King who has another 2 years in him as a stop gap measure until we can develop McEvor and LVR.

Gherig? It was a punt, and may still play if someone breaks down.

[JeffDunne]

I don't see it as a one or other argument Wayne.

When Ross was given the job we were looking for a coach to take us to the next level while restructuring the football department. We were supposed to be addressing the shortcomings from previous years to make us a genuine chance.

If the club misread the situation when they made the change and the reality is we needed a rebuild, then I don't think you can hold Ross accountable for that.

[aussiejones]

"Is it the coach, or is it the list etc. "

I really dont know if all the guys are 'on board' with RL and his game plan/s whatever they are .

They certainly seemed to be with GT

Give Lyon more time 1 to learn 2 to get the message through 3 get the guys playing for him as a TEAM.

[WayneJudson42]

Honestly, I don't buy the whole "players aren't onboard" shyt. TBH.

If this was the case, why did so many of our "stars" re sign under Lyon?

Here's how I see it pan out...

RL has a philosophy / plan to win a flag.

Players will need to time to have it drilled into them until it becomes 2nd nature.

Players that don't buy "in" or cannot do as required should be moved on.

MAny Brisbane players hated Matthew but still played for the ultimate. They do it for their team mates and them selves.

If you cross the line and say "F*** it" I can't be bothered because I hate the coach, then please go away to another club.

BTW, not everyone loved GT. And GT quickly dispensed with players who were'nt singing his tune.

[saintsRrising]

sRr, try for once looking at the bigger picture.

My picture was big. My apologies if some of is off screen for you. Blinkers probably make it hard for you though.

a coach does not have to either only focussed on the short term, or long term. It does not have to be a either/or scenario.

Clarke, Gehrig, MG & King aren't what I'd call long term decisions.

Who said they were?

But the players I mentioned were all clear evidence that Ross Lyon IS NOT JUST recruiting for the srt term, bvut that he has also clearing recruiting for the long term.


Add to the players I mentioned fill and active use of the rookies system as well as the NSW Scholraship sustem which we are more active in than many clubs...and what you get as a cumulative is alot of long term thinking anda large number of players that would be of little benefit within Lyon's initial 3 year term.

Lyon is quite clearly not just worried about his arse but is recruiting for what is best for the saints in both the immediate and long term sense.

[asiu]

extend his contract by two years today

ramp up the spend on football department 'needs'

(the on going review should be on top of 'needs' and the priorities of same )



see ya (who ever) then welcome (who ever) through the drafts ...as per the 'vision' we are dancing to now (and or , as and if rl's ideas expand)


train the house down ......fitness first

embed the tactics , the plays , the trust that executes our game plan on game day


smarten the **** up with regards to our playing groups execution on game day of the 'the current rule interpretations'


pray the list stays healthy ....and thats after every 'best practice' management technique and knowing has been employed

continue the momentum forward .....grab it by the balls , ......play for it ....hunt it .... get it and keep it .....then start winning on the back of it

win games .............remove the belief from other sides , that we are beatable

get to the big show

take a flag (or two) over the next three years ....'09-'11




then rl's had his 5 years .............we are either winners , and he'll get another contract at the end of '11 ....or
....we payed out his contract and pissed him off sometime in 2010


may as well have a shot at it

[JeffDunne]

a coach does not have to either only focussed on the short term, or long term. It does not have to be a either/or scenario.

No kidding.

However, if you think your list isn't capable of challenging you don't go recruiting players out of retirement.

[WayneJudson42]

Gazrat, I like your style mate. You're much braver than I on this one.

Great point... it's all or nothing. No point pissing in the wind. I suspect an extension next year. Everyone knows you need a good 4 to 5 years to get the job done.

The only reason I reckon he got 3 years is coz board was gunshy after GT and MB fiascoes.

[saintsRrising]

a coach does not have to either only focussed on the short term, or long term. It does not have to be a either/or scenario.

No kidding.

However, if you think your list isn't capable of challenging you don't go recruiting players out of retirement.

So Sheedy was wrong to get Tim Watson back?

I would imgaine that Lyon thinks he has a crack short term at winning a flag...but yes knew he had some weaknesses to overcome. He has also been able to pick up a lot of experienced players cheaply....some of them capable of playing many more years.

however he is also very much midful of needing emerging talent and realtive to what the picks avaialble were has some young talent coming...plus rookies...plus hopefullya NSW kid or two.

[Teflon]

Ive said all along and it doesnt change now that at the end of this season we should know enough about Ross to guage not only where we are at but whether or not Lyon has the plans and strategies to take us where we need to be.

To me it isnt about making finals as such - I still believe this list has some rather large holes (see Full back, goal kicking HFF). We are also nowhere near the depth we need IMHO and are only 1 injury away at times from being in strife (Geelong currently missing 5 of starting 22 - Ablett, Wojinski, Milburn, Ling, Egan) and can replace these guys with quality we can dream of.....our replacements are their "not good enoughs" in C Gardiner....thems the facts...

All that aside Im interested in assessing Lyon on 2 things:

1 Does he have the nous to identify where our problems lie - some coaches cant IMO.

2 Whats his plan to fix it?

A few examples from Lyon I will say already I have liked:

1. Hes done something about a ruck situation that was ordinary to say the least.

2 Hes added to a fitness dept with quality that appears to be paying off - no doubt nowadays we are running out games.

3 Hes identified and is growing the number of players we have to rotate through the midfield - a long weakness IMO as weve always been dependent on superstar "fab 4" clubs...

4 Hes added another dimension in our ability to play defensive footy

5 Hes cleverly used the rookie list and played them while managed to grab some decent pick ups (Im a Dempster/King/Gardiner fan for what we paid)

6 We are finally getting to see if Gwilts, Fergusons, Mqualters can play or should go.

7 hes shown he has the balls to say to senior, talented St Kilda players "tow the line or play 2's".........

8 INHO He has shown he will change his approach if needed (as he said he was probably to lenient early on) and hes demonstrated he learns.

9 Hes not often obviously outcoached with no plan B - he does make changes during a game (see Hawthorn game early for some great examples).

To me many of these things arent just about one decisions they are about the coaches ability to identify problems and put in place some measures (some long term) to improve us.

End of this year is enough to tell us if we have the right man IMO.

[bobmurray]

I think it is as simple as the current list is not good enough...

I also think Ross should be given more time to tweak the list and build the team he wants.....

[Saints43]

I wrote this on 17/06 when I was totally unconvinced. And stand by it - more hopeful - still unconvinced.


I believe we have put a good off-field structure in place. At least it seems to look like best practice as far as I know. We can certainly judge the injury situation as improved.

If we sign Ross up this eliminates all uncertainty. Set out a three year plan - something we don't seem to have done to this point. Then there are no more excuses. For anyone. Coaches or players.

Sign him up or eff him off at the end of the year. I don't want a coaching staff going into the final contract year with any requirement too take their eyes off the long term good od the club.

At the end of the season the board either believe in RL or not. And from what I know they do.

[saintly_safes]

Carn't say that Ross has been the shot in the arm that we needed to push our list to the next level. With our history of sacking coaches & off field dramas seems to be a distraction to what we are all trying to achieve as a club. I think at this time we need to find some stability & by sacking the coach will only put us back behind the 8 ball for season 2009. Lets just see how the rest of the year pans out & if we can get some positive vibes happening with everybody pulling in the same direction for a change then we might half a chance in 2009

[Saints43]

Carn't say that Ross has been the shot in the arm that we needed to push our list to the next level. With our history of sacking coaches & off field dramas seems to be a distraction to what we are all trying to achieve as a club. I think at this time we need to find some stability & by sacking the coach will only put us back behind the 8 ball for season 2009. Lets just see how the rest of the year pans out & if we can get some positive vibes happening with everybody pulling in the same direction for a change then we might half a chance in 2009

The board still have to make sure that he's the right man for next year and beyond. Stability for the sake of stabilty makes no sense.

Brisbane will be doing the same thing with Matthews...

[saintly_safes]

Not being critical but the board are still to get there own house in order which is my point. Not saying Ross is the be all & end all & maybe he never will be but by sacking the coach every 2 years does nothing for team morale & put's too much expectation on the incoming coach .As we have experienced in the past as soon as things start to go pear shaped we start the sack the coach thread again. We still have an outside chance of making the finals this year & with a bit of luck we might even win one which would be an improvement in what we have done in the last few years.I think the club as a whole could do with some stability not just the coach but the board & the supporters as well