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Teflon wrote:
I truly believe Lyons request for greater accountability from st kilda will take time. His attitude will take time to catch on at a club that marvels in the brilliance of the individuals and not the team. Hes almost blue collar at a club that likes its players with "flair and tricks" yet its the blue collar, disciplined, defensively built sides that get the flags.......
We hear a lot of that, but other than Sydney, there's been no premier in the last decade who was incontivertably built defense out. The Cats had Scarlett as hero when they were bad... but in the end, they were built on having a midfield with the brownlow winner and prior brownlow favourite, and an attacking team oriented approach. The Eagles were midfield first, second and 3rd, ably supported by Glass, the Lions were all about the midfield, with great KPP at both ends... Essendon was a cut above until the Lions came along, starting with the midfield...
Thats the biggest load of horse shyte youve written. Go back and read what those who have PLAYED AND COACHED the game at the highest level - the Malthouses and last week it was Brereton on radio and what were they saying/do they say? PREMIERSHIP sides are invariably built on rock solid defense - FACT.
You mention midfields - we had an awesome midfield in 97.....lost the game down back.....then you mention Brisbanes gun midfield and failto mention a backline consisting of Scott's x 2, Leppitsch, Mal Michale.... and now we look at Geelong - can I suggest you grab a copy of the current ladder with Pts Against and just have a look at why Geelong AND Sydney are so good??????.....miserly defensive units again.
But what would those who have played and coached the game know against your backdrop of SS experience right?
BTW - sacking a coach gets you where youve been before - as much as you can tritely argue "it could be better" I could argue it could be worse - infact after our last debarcle being so fresh Id argue it would be.
Teffers, it's very tough to have any sort of discussion with you if this is the vein you respond in. My only point was that it's pretty obviously not an open and shut case that keeping Lyon is a good idea. If somehow you take that as meaning I think I know more about footy than Mick Malthouse, then that's fine (insane, but this is the internet eh? I will put my hand up and say I think Brereton's a twit:) ). If you're not interested in a discussion, that's fine too, but I responded to you, not Malthouse, not Brereton, but "Teflon". If you want to debate the best way to build a team, we can... but if you just want to point to what others have said as reference, try looking at the common point between the premiers of the last 10 years (or even the runners up, including Malthouses own Magpied with their clearance driven midfield): Good midfield and key defenders, offense and a good supporting cast... playing styles have varied, but if actions speak louder than words, I rest my case.
(btw, was that pts against comment supposed to be a lure to get me to point out that the Saints Pts Against totals are worse under Lyon? You got me...)
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
My goodness you'd think we'd beat a Top 4 team the way Tossaboy and the Teflogger are ranting on. Yes that right guys ..Top 4.....thats where we used to be.
Cant believe you quote Brereton Teffers. ... Can you remind me what he said about our Rolls Royce alias Robert Harvey at the start of the year. Brereton (the thug who king hit Danny Frawley) is second only to you in the 'Know it all know nothing' stakes.
My behaviour is considered acceptable in some far off remote exotic countries...
St.Kenny wrote:My goodness you'd think we'd beat a Top 4 team the way Tossaboy and the Teflogger are ranting on. Yes that right guys ..Top 4.....thats where we used to be.
Typical of the drunken substance abuser. Thinks top four is success.
Embracing mediocrity of about four seasons ago and hanging his moth eaten St.Vinnies hat on that and calls it success.
No wonder this club has won one premiership in its entire existance with loser attitudes like St. Kunny the drunken moron.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Teflon wrote:
I truly believe Lyons request for greater accountability from st kilda will take time. His attitude will take time to catch on at a club that marvels in the brilliance of the individuals and not the team. Hes almost blue collar at a club that likes its players with "flair and tricks" yet its the blue collar, disciplined, defensively built sides that get the flags.......
We hear a lot of that, but other than Sydney, there's been no premier in the last decade who was incontivertably built defense out. The Cats had Scarlett as hero when they were bad... but in the end, they were built on having a midfield with the brownlow winner and prior brownlow favourite, and an attacking team oriented approach. The Eagles were midfield first, second and 3rd, ably supported by Glass, the Lions were all about the midfield, with great KPP at both ends... Essendon was a cut above until the Lions came along, starting with the midfield...
Thats the biggest load of horse shyte youve written. Go back and read what those who have PLAYED AND COACHED the game at the highest level - the Malthouses and last week it was Brereton on radio and what were they saying/do they say? PREMIERSHIP sides are invariably built on rock solid defense - FACT.
You mention midfields - we had an awesome midfield in 97.....lost the game down back.....then you mention Brisbanes gun midfield and failto mention a backline consisting of Scott's x 2, Leppitsch, Mal Michale.... and now we look at Geelong - can I suggest you grab a copy of the current ladder with Pts Against and just have a look at why Geelong AND Sydney are so good??????.....miserly defensive units again.
But what would those who have played and coached the game know against your backdrop of SS experience right?
BTW - sacking a coach gets you where youve been before - as much as you can tritely argue "it could be better" I could argue it could be worse - infact after our last debarcle being so fresh Id argue it would be.
Teffers, it's very tough to have any sort of discussion with you if this is the vein you respond in. My only point was that it's pretty obviously not an open and shut case that keeping Lyon is a good idea.
Its fairly obvious theres good and bad to most things...the whole two sides to the same story line.....if your point is "nothing is open and shut".......well.....thats fairly obvious isnt it? I mean we could talk about anything in life on that basis.....couldnt we?
If somehow you take that as meaning I think I know more about footy than Mick Malthouse, then that's fine (insane, but this is the internet eh? I will put my hand up and say I think Brereton's a twit:) ). If you're not interested in a discussion, that's fine too, but I responded to you, not Malthouse, not Brereton, but "Teflon".
I apologise for using people who have played the game and coached it at the highest level to illustrate a point........I mean to me thats a fairly relevant and logical thing to do...otherwise what are we debating? your opinion Vs mine....thats not debate...thats headed toward "well thats just my opinion" type endings...a TRUE debate IMHO has to be founded on something a little more surely? hence the relevance of the opinions of those who know more about the game (whether we like them or not) than we ever will.
If you want to debate the best way to build a team, we can... but if you just want to point to what others have said as reference, try looking at the common point between the premiers of the last 10 years (or even the runners up, including Malthouses own Magpied with their clearance driven midfield): Good midfield and key defenders, offense and a good supporting cast... playing styles have varied, but if actions speak louder than words, I rest my case.
Again show me a Premiership side of the last 10 years with a lousy defence???.......hhmmm...
(btw, was that pts against comment supposed to be a lure to get me to point out that the Saints Pts Against totals are worse under Lyon? You got me...)
I see you didnt bother to understand the point about pts against so I wont bother explaining again....in any case...it makes itself so I can see why youd prefer not dwell...
Suffice to say your earlier "opinion" about the so-callled "best way" to build a side misses the mark entirely with respect to Lyon and St Kilda - I dont think Lyons trying to build a side - hes trying to mould a side that IMHO still has a very well credentialled core. Theres a difference - Carlton of recent years 'built' a side........it takes longer.
Teflon wrote:Suffice to say your earlier "opinion" about the so-callled "best way" to build a side misses the mark entirely with respect to Lyon and St Kilda - I dont think Lyons trying to build a side - hes trying to mould a side that IMHO still has a very well credentialled core. Theres a difference - Carlton of recent years 'built' a side........it takes longer.
LOL.
What happened to the big clean out you wanted at the end of the year?
St.Kenny wrote:My goodness you'd think we'd beat a Top 4 team the way Tossaboy and the Teflogger are ranting on. Yes that right guys ..Top 4.....thats where we used to be.
Typical of the drunken substance abuser. Thinks top four is success.
Embracing mediocrity of about four seasons ago and hanging his moth eaten St.Vinnies hat on that and calls it success.
No wonder this club has won one premiership in its entire existance with loser attitudes like St. Kunny the drunken moron.
Hey..don't parcel all drunken substance users in one basket...i wanna..burp....see...burp... a flag
Teflon wrote:Suffice to say your earlier "opinion" about the so-callled "best way" to build a side misses the mark entirely with respect to Lyon and St Kilda - I dont think Lyons trying to build a side - hes trying to mould a side that IMHO still has a very well credentialled core. Theres a difference - Carlton of recent years 'built' a side........it takes longer.
LOL.
What happened to the big clean out you wanted at the end of the year?
Whats so funny shaggy?
I mean....we are talking about re shaping a side. We arent gonna win the flag Shaggy *newsflash*...theres still more than enough room for a clean out at seasons end.....infact I hope for our sake Lyon already has many earmarked.
Teflon wrote:Suffice to say your earlier "opinion" about the so-callled "best way" to build a side misses the mark entirely with respect to Lyon and St Kilda - I dont think Lyons trying to build a side - hes trying to mould a side that IMHO still has a very well credentialled core. Theres a difference - Carlton of recent years 'built' a side........it takes longer.
LOL.
What happened to the big clean out you wanted at the end of the year?
Whats so funny shaggy?
I mean....we are talking about re shaping a side. We arent gonna win the flag Shaggy *newsflash*...theres still more than enough room for a clean out at seasons end.....infact I hope for our sake Lyon already has many earmarked.
How much of a clean out is good for you shaggy?
I don't want a clean out.
I expect 5 players plus or minus 1 to go by retirements and delistings to make way for new comers. Thats a normal process.
IMO theres room for perhaps a couple more on that.
5 is a normal shift for all clubs and hardly a clean out.
I would be interested to hear your suggested deletions from the Saints list.
Not so fast shaggster...I mean...you do that on here an you get called for blasphemy...ofcourse my movements also depend on whats on offer trade wise so its not that clear cut.
5 or 6 is still a reasonably large change for mine. Below is a list Id muse over.....not necessarily move on them all......and theres possibly 1 or 2 extras to 'muse' over...IM NOT SUGGESTING THEY ALL GO.
IMO theres room for perhaps a couple more on that.
5 is a normal shift for all clubs and hardly a clean out.
I would be interested to hear your suggested deletions from the Saints list.
Not so fast shaggster...I mean...you do that on here an you get called for blasphemy...ofcourse my movements also depend on whats on offer trade wise so its not that clear cut.
5 or 6 is still a reasonably large change for mine. Below is a list Id muse over.....not necessarily move on them all......and theres possibly 1 or 2 extras to 'muse' over...IM NOT SUGGESTING THEY ALL GO.
Gwilt, Raph, Mini are all young and progressing normally with some adversity and will not be delisted IMO. Most kids unfortunately progress at a normal speed . Regardless of your desire for the kids to grow up quicker I suspect the Saints will recognise otherwise.
Goose, Max, Bakes & Banger are in so long as they don't want to exit themselves out .
That leaves a much smaller group which you should add Birss to. Neither Birss nor Fish deserve delisting compared to say Charlie but they are obviously both on the outer.
It will be tough for the Saints end of year because they will not want to delist some whom they have to delist to keep new blood coming in. But it is hardly going to be a clean out - we can compare later .
And good luck with your "lets get rid of Barker compaign".
Calling for people to be sacked is wonderful isn't it .
Last edited by Shaggy on Wed 02 Jul 2008 12:18am, edited 1 time in total.
Just because they have been out a while people forget
Thats not my reasoning at all.
Infact I had doubts over Maguire while he was playing in 06 and agree with Grant Thomas ...he cant turn a corner...he can only run a straight line. That said Im not saying hes a definate to go but depending on his leg his hand maybe forced and I dont think we are in a luxury position of waiting 3 yrs to find out.
Baker also has worried me for some time. He no longer shuts down the best (at his best this is what he was renowned for). He has never been able to shut down AND accumulate posessions and I suspect lacks a yard nowadays so hangs on...
Teflon wrote:
Baker also has worried me for some time. He no longer shuts down the best (at his best this is what he was renowned for). He has never been able to shut down AND accumulate posessions and I suspect lacks a yard nowadays so hangs on...
Teflon wrote:
Baker also has worried me for some time. He no longer shuts down the best (at his best this is what he was renowned for). He has never been able to shut down AND accumulate posessions and I suspect lacks a yard nowadays so hangs on...
Very short memory Teflon.
Very short memory indeed.
Well you see.....I have a view - not a list of questions that hide taking a real position.
IMO Baker has one trick- he shuts down players. Its not enough for mine to compete at the elite and that "trick' he had is questiionable as to whether he can do it against the best still.
I dont base my views on his injury time - could care less about that - I was worried and have been about him and Maguire long before that.
I appreciate your attempt to assert that I have a "short memory" may I suggest you put up your views on list changes that we need to make why not put some suggestions up so we can discuss....its what happens on footy forums....... ............
If you're not prepared to that may I suggest you dont suffer from "short memory"...rather "short" something else.....
Teflon wrote:
Well you see.....I have a view - not a list of questions that hide taking a real position.
IMO Baker has one trick- he shuts down players. Its not enough for mine to compete at the elite and that "trick' he had is questiionable as to whether he can do it against the best still.
I dont base my views on his injury time - could care less about that - I was worried and have been about him and Maguire long before that.
I appreciate your attempt to assert that I have a "short memory" may I suggest you put up your views on list changes that we need to make why not put some suggestions up so we can discuss....its what happens on footy forums....... ............
If you're not prepared to that may I suggest you dont suffer from "short memory"...rather "short" something else.....
Teflon wrote:And good luck with your "lets get rid of Barker compaign".
Calling for people to be sacked is wonderful isn't it .
Ahh.....Shaggy....its tought work educating you.....
Assistant coaches get turned over regulalrly - its the nature of the game.
Senior coaches dont and shouldnt be turned over 1.5 years into a job (unless they play gold 3 out of 4 days a week and lunch with Adelaide the rest of the time).
Next weeks lesson: What are the long pointy things at the end of a football oval?
Teflon wrote:
Well you see.....I have a view - not a list of questions that hide taking a real position.
IMO Baker has one trick- he shuts down players. Its not enough for mine to compete at the elite and that "trick' he had is questiionable as to whether he can do it against the best still.
I dont base my views on his injury time - could care less about that - I was worried and have been about him and Maguire long before that.
I appreciate your attempt to assert that I have a "short memory" may I suggest you put up your views on list changes that we need to make why not put some suggestions up so we can discuss....its what happens on footy forums....... ............
If you're not prepared to that may I suggest you dont suffer from "short memory"...rather "short" something else.....
Is that your idea of a 'discussion'?
LOL thats called an opinion Dodg...but I guess without a ? at the end yopu had trouble reading it?
Who is Baker really?
Why is he short?
Isnt he just a name on paper at the end of the day?
Can semantics really hide a lack of thought?
Teflon wrote:And good luck with your "lets get rid of Barker compaign".
Calling for people to be sacked is wonderful isn't it .
Ahh.....Shaggy....its tought work educating you.....
Assistant coaches get turned over regulalrly - its the nature of the game.
Senior coaches dont and shouldnt be turned over 1.5 years into a job (unless they play gold 3 out of 4 days a week and lunch with Adelaide the rest of the time).
Next weeks lesson: What are the long pointy things at the end of a football oval?
cut out the patronising in every post.
You don't have to subtley put down people's intelligence in most of your replies
Pathetic trolls and losers who dance on the Saints grave when we lose, unsighted for weeks on end when we win.
These clowns are not true Saints supporters. they are pathetic and make me want to throw up.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
get f***ed you imbecile d**khead Joffaboy. IF I see shithouse football and poor coaching I will damn well call it! I wont be spoken down to by big internet hero's like yourself. Sad little pathetic life that you do lead. f*** off.
...he cant turn a corner...he can only run a straight line. That said Im not saying hes a definate to go but depending on his leg his hand maybe forced and I dont think we are in a luxury position of waiting 3 yrs to find out.
