McEvoy dropped - what a disgrace

[Otiman]

Koschitzke - Forward/Ruck
King - Ageing dedicated ruck
Gardiner - Injury prone dedicated ruck
McEvoy - Developing Ruck/Forward

Playing King/Gardiner together means they each play a lot less game time, and Koschitzke can focus more on being a key forward target. I think Ross will be pleased that King's body has held up, but will be wanting to wind back his TOG over the next few weeks.

Besides, an Injured Koschitzke had the same amount of hitouts as McEvoy did last week.

McEvoy's time will come, it just came a little sooner than he would have realistically expected it due to the injuries of both Gardiner and Koschitzke.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

he looked completely out of his league against both sandilands and warnock

he looked great around the ground, finding space leading well etc

his time will come

[jill]

Ben earnt his place in team - Kosi hasn't!

[plugger66]

Ben earnt his place in team - Kosi hasn't!

Ever heard of credits in the bank.

[asiu]

me too

cant read the thread in peace






**** the tosser off , please

[On the Ball]

McEvoy was the best possible player when it came to our pick in the draft. Everyone that needed to know anything about him knew he was a gun ruckman (better the Kreuzer) and a very good tall forward.

With MIchael Gardiner getting a 1 year contract, and Steven King landing on our doorstep for basically nothing (pick 90 (which Geelong didnt use)), and as well as having Blake and Van Rheenan, how did STKFC think they would develop Ben McEvoy. Was their intention just to play him at Casey all year unless one of either King or Gardiner fell over?

He is an unbelievable talent and yet sits behind those two in the pecking order.

How does a kid learn to play AFL footy. Like Armitage - in one week, out the next.

There arent to many positives going on at Linton St these days however McEvoy is one of them. Very disappointing that he isnt playing. Why doesn't the Coach come out and explain his reasons to the people they turn to when the sh1t hits the fan (i.e. the supporters)?

[Teflon]

McEvoy was the best possible player when it came to our pick in the draft. Everyone that needed to know anything about him knew he was a gun ruckman (better the Kreuzer) and a very good tall forward.

With MIchael Gardiner getting a 1 year contract, and Steven King landing on our doorstep for basically nothing (pick 90 (which Geelong didnt use)), and as well as having Blake and Van Rheenan, how did STKFC think they would develop Ben McEvoy. Was their intention just to play him at Casey all year unless one of either King or Gardiner fell over?

He is an unbelievable talent and yet sits behind those two in the pecking order.

How does a kid learn to play AFL footy. Like Armitage - in one week, out the next.

There arent to many positives going on at Linton St these days however McEvoy is one of them. Very disappointing that he isnt playing. Why doesn't the Coach come out and explain his reasons to the people they turn to when the sh1t hits the fan (i.e. the supporters)?

so leave King out? Kosi out? cause its dumb to suggest we are gonna play them all and have the run.

McEvoy showed some composure last week - took 1 nice mark and got pat on the back from the club.

He'll go back , continue to get some REAL game time and develop in the second best comp outside AFL - othing wrong with that.

Everyone's always looking for the kids to somehow perform miracles - they develop. That doesnt mean ALL come into the side and hold their spot indefinately.

[Otiman]

His ability as a ruckman will come more with his strength than anything else. He will continue to learn against capable VFL ruckmen, as well as learn from the best in the business (King, Gardiner, Madden).

In no way is his development being stifled by playing in the VFL. There's no point playing him week in, week out against the best in the business unless we want to lose games, blame him, and he ends up with depression from reading forum posts.

Compare it to Kreuzer's game against Freo, where Kepler Bradley was second ruck (not Warnock) and he got 6 hitouts, 2 marks and 7 disposals. (btw Sandilands had 38 hitouts that match against Kreuzer and Cloke, amazing stat)

[The_Dud]

as a ruckman, he had ZERO hitouts last week, bloody Roo had more than him!

he'll learn and develop alot quicker in the VFL, especially his ruck work, rather than in the AFL where he'd get flogged week in week out

its not like we're booting him off the list, just dropping him because there are better options (Kosi)

Kosi's worst game would be better than McEvoys last week

we should play kids, and we are, but they still have to earn their spot and contribute to the team

[bigcarl]

McEvoy was the best possible player when it came to our pick in the draft. Everyone that needed to know anything about him knew he was a gun ruckman (better the Kreuzer) and a very good tall forward.

With MIchael Gardiner getting a 1 year contract, and Steven King landing on our doorstep for basically nothing (pick 90 (which Geelong didnt use)), and as well as having Blake and Van Rheenan, how did STKFC think they would develop Ben McEvoy. Was their intention just to play him at Casey all year unless one of either King or Gardiner fell over?

He is an unbelievable talent and yet sits behind those two in the pecking order.

How does a kid learn to play AFL footy. Like Armitage - in one week, out the next.

There arent to many positives going on at Linton St these days however McEvoy is one of them. Very disappointing that he isnt playing. Why doesn't the Coach come out and explain his reasons to the people they turn to when the sh1t hits the fan (i.e. the supporters)?

you make some good points and i'm sure that the three guys ahead of him, kosi, king and gardiner, know they are on notice to perform.

the slightest lapse in form will give mcevoy another chance if he continues to play well for casey.

but he is young and big blokes take a bit longer, etc.

[BigMart]

All this talk of our P-ship window being closed, and we have NO young talent what will our side be like in 3-5 years...will we again challenge for a premiership against the likes of Hawthorn and Carlton....who will be awesome in that time....

I believe Riewoldt will be gone.....so some DP's there

Gilbert, Armitage and Howard are also Qld boys.....Gilbert may also be a casualty.....

18 players

Gram (28), X.Clarke (29), McEvoy(22), Montagna (28), Schneider (28), Ball (28), Goddard (27), Armitage (24), Koschitzke (30), Dempster (28), S.Fisher (29), Dal Santo (28), Maguire (27), Steven (21), Allen (23), Eddy (23), Geary(23), Attard (26).

Will still be around plus 4 drafts, with about 16 players coming through...

X.Clarke, Maguire, Kosi - could either be injury or trade victims....

So the answer......we could be a competative team....not top shelf unless some of our DP's are beauties.....

do we need to bottom out to get some high picks????

[BigMart]

I put that in the wrong spot.

[Corkin Ocean]

Not sure that I agree that we can’t play McEvoy, King and Kosi in the same side. When available, we play M.Gardiner, King and Kosi in the same side.

Also not sure that I like the options with the team selected. King is the only true ruckman but should share ruck duties. If he does too much he has more potential than other players to break down, as has been seen earlier this year I think.

Kosi no doubt will share ruck duties but he is not a ruckman and I doubt ever will be. I thought a consensus had formed on this point. When he is put in the ruck, it suffers.

As well, when he is in the ruck he is obviously not a target on the forward line – leaving … Riewoldt? Allen? Charlie? Last week showed the value Riewoldt can be running around the ground – but if he does this while Kosi is in the ruck there is not much to kick to.

I think, and hope, that Allen has a future. He showed in a couple of touches last week that he was not overawed and may add a bit of talent – but you can’t expect a lot from a second gamer. Charlie seems essentially a lead up forward not so at home playing a key role.

I know the theory is along the lines that the team floods back and then everyone streams down and anyone kicks goals, or it is chipped around until someone might. But I don’t think it has really worked all that well that way yet. Call me an out-dated traditionalist if you like, but I would have liked to see McEvoy and Allen as forwards when King is not rucking, even if this meant that the run of Charlie had to be sacrificed. If Riewolt is running around like last week, maybe Charlie’s lead up running wouldn’t be required as much.

As I said, you can’t expect a lot from a second gamer, but at least if you had two of them as marking targets up forward, it would share the load.

Anyway, having said that, I hope Charlie comes out and kicks a bag and that Kosi dominates in the ruck! I’d like to see that.

[Otiman]

Not sure that I agree that we can’t play McEvoy, King and Kosi in the same side. When available, we play M.Gardiner, King and Kosi in the same side.

There is a difference, Koschitzke plays forward when he's "resting" from the ruck, King and M. Gardiner go to the bench.

Having a forward line consisting of both McEvoy and Koschitzke will be extremely cumbersome.

HOWEVER, drop any one person from King/Gardiner/Koschitzke and McEvoy can fill the hole. Can fill the Ruck/Bench role of King/Gardiner, or the Ruck/Forward role of Koschitzke.

To play him as a permanent forward is a waste of time he could be using to develop his ruckwork in the VFL, we can be developing Allen for that role.

However, if, like some suggest, Kosi starts playing CHB, I can see room for 4 big guys in the side, with McEvoy resting at FF, relieving Allen/Gehrig to rest on the bench.

[saints11]

A better playing is coming back from injury.

The football club is about developing footballers as well as winning games.

NO chance that we could play McEvoy, Koschitzke, and King all in the same side.

it was only his first game against the two tallest players in the league

[AP Erebus]

This one doesn't worry me a whole lot.

He's still learning, got a taste of it last week but we are still trying to win games of footy. No tanking yet.

Mind you, Milne coming back in? He HAS to show something (2+ goals) or he's gone.

[Corkin Ocean]

Yes, you are right Otiman – Kosi and McEvoy on the forward line might be a bit too much “Land of the Giantsâ€

[st_Trav_ofWA]

he got a taste hes still young his time will come

[saintsRrising]

McEvoy is very promising....but is also clearly not ready to be a ruckman in the seniors.

This is not based on just the last game..but his ruck play that I have seen at Casey and in the Intraclub.

Let his body build...and Madden work on him.

Ben is young...so both this year and next will mainly be developmental years...though yes he should play more next year in the seniors.

However mainly look for him from 2010 on.

Remember for example that Hamish McIntosh was drafted in 2002

2003 = 0 games
2004 = 0 games
2005 = 1 game
2006= 17 games
2007 = 25 games

So Ben in half a season has already played as many games as Hamish did in his first 3 seasons!!!

[yipper]

This one doesn't worry me a whole lot.

He's still learning, got a taste of it last week but we are still trying to win games of footy. No tanking yet.

Mind you, Milne coming back in? He HAS to show something (2+ goals) or he's gone.

Milne had 27 goals in 12 games!! That's 2.25 goals per game!! He already was doing what you suggest.

[Buckets]

McEvoy is very promising....but is also clearly not ready to be a ruckman in the seniors.

This is not based on just the last game..but his ruck play that I have seen at Casey and in the Intraclub.

Let his body build...and Madden work on him.

Ben is young...so both this year and next will mainly be developmental years...though yes he should play more next year in the seniors.

However mainly look for him from 2010 on.

Remember for example that Hamish McIntosh was drafted in 2002

2003 = 0 games
2004 = 0 games
2005 = 1 game
2006= 17 games
2007 = 25 games

So Ben in half a season has already played as many games as Hamish did in his first 3 seasons!!!

In regards to Hamish, his first 1 and a half years were interupted by injury and it took him a while to become focussed on knowing what was required of him at senior level. Hamish before he was drafted was known as very talented but very lazy. There were numerous times that i saw him up in Wodonga on the weekend having a drink at one of the local pubs, this was during the time of his injuries!
Ask North fans it took an extremely long time for Hamish to prove himself. Comparing him to Ben is extreme because ben is fit and impressing at VFL level. I just think that it is strange that we have comments by Ross to say that he might put Kosi down back for parts of the game, if this were to be the case i would find it perplexing that we dont take Ben into the game to rotate with Kosi when he goes down back and when King needs a rest from the rucking duties.
To those who are implying that he is no good based on the fact that he had zero hitouts i say open your eyes! His first game was against two of the biggest ruckman in the league! Roo got the hitouts because he no doubt was third man up! Would like to see him go one on one with Sandilands and see how he went then!

[LTN16]

I'm not saying that it was a good thing that McEvoy got dropped (I don't believe in giving kids 1 game at a time) but this leaves King and Kosi to do the Ruck work which allows Jarryd Allen to spend more time on the ground playing at Full Forward.

McEvoy may get a few a more games in the next coming weeks.

[midas_touch]

McEvoy is very promising....but is also clearly not ready to be a ruckman in the seniors.

This is not based on just the last game..but his ruck play that I have seen at Casey and in the Intraclub.

Let his body build...and Madden work on him.

Ben is young...so both this year and next will mainly be developmental years...though yes he should play more next year in the seniors.

However mainly look for him from 2010 on.

Remember for example that Hamish McIntosh was drafted in 2002

2003 = 0 games
2004 = 0 games
2005 = 1 game
2006= 17 games
2007 = 25 games

So Ben in half a season has already played as many games as Hamish did in his first 3 seasons!!!

Looks like McIntosh is the benchmark for young ruckmen nowadays.

[To the top]

Thought he showed a bit.

In his time on the ground he took a couple of marks on the 50, one of which was a good contested grab, hit the post once and dropped short the second time.

What did impress me was his presenting a couple of times in the last quarter when the pressure was on, particularly in one instance where he had an opponent on his hammer, put has hands out straight in front and took the ball well between the centre and half back.

Good clean hands running full tilt at the ball.

Bit surprised he was not credited with a hit out because he generally jumped well (against 206cm and 211cm) and I thought he got his hands to a few.

There were a couple of Fremantle thumps forward when he was rucking, but he counter acted that by ensuring he got a jump into the body.

A fair size and someone to look forward to.

As I have said before, you look for the little things that say "this kid can play the game", and McEvoy most definately can.

[Teflon]

This one doesn't worry me a whole lot.

He's still learning, got a taste of it last week but we are still trying to win games of footy. No tanking yet.

Mind you, Milne coming back in? He HAS to show something (2+ goals) or he's gone.

Milne had 27 goals in 12 games!! That's 2.25 goals per game!! He already was doing what you suggest.

Im more interested in what Milne does when he doesnt have the footy to guage if he stays in.

I thought Jeff Farmer avg 2.2 gls a game...hes a head case. This "goals" alone isnt enough as weve seen with Gehrig theres no point getting 8 against Richmond and then getting stuff all AND add NO pressure OR turn it over when you play a Bulldogs.